Left Out

[TNT]

After reading over this numerous times I see the whole incident as a big failure at communication. No where did I see that the four of you discussed what everyone's expectations of the night were.

What would you have done if you found yourself in that situation?

If I find myself in any situation I'm not comfortable in...I remove myself from it.

What should I have done? What should I do if it looked like a similar situation was developing again?

I'm going to point out some points in the evening that if they had been handled differently, the evening might have gone more to your liking.

Originally Posted by HiMileageJim

My wife asked "what about my husband?" and the other wife said "I'll take care of him."

Your wife could have asked for clarification...How are you going to take care of him?

Upon entering their suite, the other wife took my wife's hand and led her into the adjoining bedroom and her husband followed them into the bedroom.

Why didn't you follow them in? You could have. This would have been a good opportunity for all to have sat on the bed together and discuss expectations.

The other wife came back into the living room and closed the French doors behind her. She undressed down to a sexy black teddy and poured herself another vodka and 7 Up and joined me on the couch. We had just met them and she told me they had a young son and they didn't get with other couples very often. She told me she had recently had a boob job which she was very proud of and wanted me to see them. Baring her breasts she invited me to touch and feel. She didn't have any scars from the surgery and explained the surgeon had made the incisions in her arm pits.

She said she wanted a cigarette and we went out on the balcony. She sat in my lap and talked and I caressed her and felt her breasts as she smoked. We went back inside and started kissing. About then I could hear my wife through the bedroom door making love noises as her partner was getting her close. I thought she's having a good time and soon she had her first orgasm. My partner decided she needed another drink and insisted on going to get more ice herself. She went out in her black teddy and was gone a long time.

It's possible that during this time she was waiting for you to make a more aggressive move.

I sat on the couch and listened to my wife in the next room moaning, talking nasty and having orgasm after orgasm. I got an erection just listening to her and knowing what a great lay she was.

You could have gotten up, opened the door, walked in and joined them. Since there was no discussion earlier in the evening as to the way everyone was expecting it to play out, and unless you had agreed that your wife and this man were going to play the whole evening alone, there's no reason you couldn't have joined them. After all, sitting there by yourself wasn't making you happy.

Her husband was fucking my wife's brains out while I sat by myself waiting "to be taken care of." By then I was really pissed off and neither of us were "in the mood."

The only good thing to come out of the experience was that my wife had a great time and and enjoyed being with the husband. That was possible because she didn't know what was going or -- or more particularly not going on -- in the other room.

It's great that you found something good out of a less than ideal situation. That's the important thing. Hindsight is 20/20 so don't beat yourself up over this. You've learned something and in future encounters you'll do better. Just remember, everyone needs to be on the same page and communicate with the other couple what your expectations are as well as their's.


Teresa

[iapr]

I don't think this is really a newbie issue, if someone is going to be intentionally deceptive and scheming they could have sucked in a very experienced couple just as well.


99% of the time when we play we are the ones that have the room and we are the ones that determine who are interested and we are the ones that make the offer to play. Yes sometimes it would be nice to just be cute and flirty and let people come to us and do all the work and make us the offers but when you are the ones that are making the offer you are the one in the drivers seat and are under control of all the conditions rather than if you are accepting someone elses offer.


Let's break this down, they made the offer to your wife without any recognition that you existed..red Flag. When your wife asked about you, the wife said she'd "take care of you" but had you actually met her or developed any rapport with her? Not a real red flag per se but it is highly unusual that a female will agree to have sex with someone elses husband sight-unseen. Then when the got you to their room they physically separated you two without any prior discussion of playing separately..another red flag.

Like I said before if someone is really devious and skilled they could have pulled that one over on any of us. However if you two had worked together and schmoozed a couple of your choosing together and made the offer to another couple to come to your room then you could have determined the conditions and scenario as opposed to following their lead.

With this approach you will get rejected a lot more but you are doing things on your terms. Be the fisherman and not the fish. And definately do not be the worm.

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by iapr

...when you are the ones that are making the offer you are the one in the drivers seat and are under control of all the conditions rather than if you are accepting someone elses offer.

...if you two had worked together and schmoozed a couple of your choosing together and made the offer to another couple to come to your room then you could have determined the conditions and scenario as opposed to following their lead.

With this approach you will get rejected a lot more but you are doing things on your terms.

I disagree.

When we play in another person's hotel room we are as much "in control" as when we play in our room. The conditions of play are our conditions as well as the couple we choose to play with. We go there knowing this, we don't do anything in another person's room that we wouldn't do in our own room and we don't expect those invited to our room to go beyond what they are comfortable with.

When we rent the room we don't see it as a way to have more control over people or how we play.

We have been taught that when going to someone's home you are a guest, you don't wander through rooms that you've not been given permission to walk through and you don't snoop around. You are, in that situation, stepping into another person's personal realm and, therefore, follow certain rules of etiquette. Even then, when in their home, whether there to swing or for a vanilla gathering, you can walk out if you come upon a situation that you're not comfortable with.

In swinging, people may mistakenly forget that the hotel room is just an evening in a room rented for sex. It is a bedroom and a bathroom and it doesn't belong to the swingers, it's the property of the hotel.

No matter who has the room or who makes the request to play, the terms should be discussed beforehand and all parties should go in feeling they are in control of themselves and not there "under the terms" of someone else.

LM

[tittietwister]

Have also had that experience. We were invited to a second play meeting (after a first vertical meeting) a couple's house ostensibly because she found me hot. After my wife and her husband left to play in a separate room she asks me if its OK if we don't play. I wasn't going to force her so I said OK and we did the dishes together from dinner (that's right - dishes). Then she tells me not to tell her husband or my wife that we didn't do anything. I told my wife anyway.

Later, we did have the over to our house for a vertical dinner as despite the problem I did like them both. I would have been happy to change the relationship to vertical to keep them as friends. My wife was pissed at them so fixed a lousy dinner that was highly spiced and it made them sick. We didn't know spicy food didn't agree with them but unintended payback was had.

I do appreciate the tips I've read in this thread to perhaps avoid the situation in the future.

[Chris&Amelia]

Originally Posted by tittietwister

Have also had that experience. We were invited to a second play meeting (after a first vertical meeting) a couple's house ostensibly because she found me hot. After my wife and her husband left to play in a separate room she asks me if its OK if we don't play. I wasn't going to force her so I said OK and we did the dishes together from dinner (that's right - dishes). Then she tells me not to tell her husband or my wife that we didn't do anything. I told my wife anyway.

Wow. That was a lousy situation.

While I guess it can be a matter of no chemistry between you and her (hey, it happens), I'm thinking that her husband forced her into this. Not a good situation at all.

They were probably good people, but you don't want to be near that particular time bomb when it goes off.

[socolais]

Originally Posted by tittietwister

Have also had that experience. We were invited to a second play meeting (after a first vertical meeting) a couple's house ostensibly because she found me hot. After my wife and her husband left to play in a separate room she asks me if its OK if we don't play. I wasn't going to force her so I said OK and we did the dishes together from dinner (that's right - dishes). Then she tells me not to tell her husband or my wife that we didn't do anything. I told my wife anyway.

Later, we did have the over to our house for a vertical dinner as despite the problem I did like them both. I would have been happy to change the relationship to vertical to keep them as friends. My wife was pissed at them so fixed a lousy dinner that was highly spiced and it made them sick. We didn't know spicy food didn't agree with them but unintended payback was had.

I do appreciate the tips I've read in this thread to perhaps avoid the situation in the future.

Apparently this ploy (with several variations) is more common than I realized. Perhaps I'm somewhat sheltered from this because almost all our play is at house parties. I'll have to keep an eye out for similar situations as they begin to unfold. If a husband forces his wife to swing so he can get his jolies, I can't believe he'd have any respect for my wife either.

As for the "payback", I think we wouldn't want to swing with any of you guys. I happen to like spicy foods and probably wouldn't even notice if I were in a revenge situation like that.

You say you'd like a vertical friendship with these guys, but your account of the actions doesn't sound friendly to me.

Birds of a feather....

[it'sso]

With more than 50% of all marriages failing, why should anybody be surprised if other relationships and/or encounters which include physical interactions often don't meet with everybody's expectations?
When I was still enjoying the lifestyle, I was pleased if even ten percent went my way.

[Chris&Amelia]

Originally Posted by it'sso

With more than 50% of all marriages failing, why should anybody be surprised if other relationships and/or encounters which include physical interactions often don't meet with everybody's expectations?
When I was still enjoying the lifestyle, I was pleased if even ten percent went my way.

Be that as it may, but our marriage is doing quite fine, and we would rather not be dragged into a situation because a couple is playing passive-aggressive games to hurt each other.

Hey, I don't care what they do to each other. It's none of my business. But we are not your tools to be used as an instrument of war against each other. But if I find out that somebody intentionally did something that ended up hurting Amelia (either emotionally or physically), I'm throwing that person through a wall.

I'm a pretty laid back guy. It takes a lot to set me off. But that's one of my trigger points.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by HiMileageJim

What should I have done when it looked like we had been misled and tricked? In hindsight it was obvious that the other wife picked out and set up a very attractive but naive newbie wife for her husband to fuck and managed to lead me on and keep me distracted while he fucked her. I vowed that never again would I ever let myself or my wife get sucked in and taken advantage of like happened that time. The only good thing to come out of the experience was that my wife had a great time and and enjoyed being with the husband. That was possible because she didn't know what was going or -- or more particularly not going on -- in the other room.

What would you have done if you found yourself in that situation? What should I have done? What should I do if it looked like a similar situation was developing again?

At the very least suggest to the other wife - why don't we join them in the bedroom! If that didn't work join them anyway. If the other wife doesn't want to play there is no reason that you shouldn't be able to join in the fun and turn a 2some into a 3some!

At any point in the evening did you make any aggressive moves towards the other wife?

[ktimephoenix]

Originally Posted by tittietwister

After my wife and her husband left to play in a separate room she asks me if its OK if we don't play. I wasn't going to force her so I said OK and we did the dishes together from dinner (that's right - dishes). Then she tells me not to tell her husband or my wife that we didn't do anything. I told my wife anyway.

If that were me, i would have gone straight in and joined the fun with my wife... not that i have a problem with Mrs phoenix getting more "attention" than i do (our first encounters have basically been her filling out her girl on girl cravings, with me as a 3rd wheel, or her getting male attention while she pleasures me.)

last party she was hooking up with a guy in the spa (we were chatting to that couple all night), and i was fine with not recieving attention from the fem of the couple, as the situation lent itself to more MfM or FMF (long story, F in the couples first time, and had some boundaries to make herself comfortable. as newb's ourselves we understood completely. still had an awesome night).

but i was fine with that BECAUSE we knew the boundaries and expectations from the start. if they had have proposed a full swap and then told us that the Fem wasn't comfortable with penetration from another guy, AFTER he started with Mrs Phoenix, then "full swap" isn't full swap anymore, and we (mrs phoenix hates seeing me left out) would have made the best of the situation, and changed OUR rules to suit. and i certainly wouldn't have been doing the dishes.

in going in to play with your wife, your not "telling on the other wife", but your making it clear that your not going to LIE to your wife to cover the other couples communication problems... the most important thing to us is OPEN COMMUNICATION. and we're not going to compromise that, or the trust that comes along with it, for the sake of another couple.

[slevin]

Originally Posted by HiMileageJim

with her in their hotel suite after the dance. My wife asked "what about my husband?" and the other wife said "I'll take care of him." My wife was more attracted to her husband than the husband I had talked to earlier, my wife agreed to join them for some playtime.

So this is an old thread (with a new reply and a question from someone else that bumped it up apparently), but we just read through the whole thread and had an idea about the situation: could the wife of the other couple have actually been an escort/prostitute? The situation sounds very suspicious to us and we have seen other couples that we suspected were a single guy with an escort. We haven't had a situation anywhere close to this come up with us, but my first suspicion is that the guy hired an escort and her job was to get the girl he wanted. For her part she avoided having to fuck anyone and got paid anyway. One of the more experienced swinger couples we've met has described almost exactly that situation to us, something they've seen done. That is all third hand though.