Why I Hate the Lifestyle

[JandCMI]

This is a rant. Apologies in advance for the length and any rambling.

First, I need to say that we have had a lot of fun in various sexual encounters with other people (that is the point of this, after all). For us, the lifestyle can be a huge confidence booster and can make you feel very good about yourself. This is why we keep trying. I know it isn't a perfect world and things don't always work the way they should, but we have had enjoyable experiences and hope to have more in the future. But, more times than not, we have found the lifestyle frustrating and infuriating.

We are both young(er) and, by most standards, decent looking. My wife has a wonderful and upbeat personality and is quite disarming. She is always the first to take their clothes off and readily lets people know that. I am more reserved than she is and probably think too much for my own good, but am not threatening or pushy in any way. We have been in the lifestyle for almost six years. We know exactly what we want and are very clear about it in our Swing Lifestyle profile and when we talk to other people. We realize that not everyone has their shit as together as we do so we improvise and roll with the punches. We simply want to meet people (not necessarily exclusive) that we can get together with on a semi-regular basis. That's it. At best we have had modest success at times (we knew one couple that we met with for a time but she got pregnant and that was the end of that). For the most part, we still haven't found what we are looking for. Honestly, in how many other facets of life would one keep trying to do something for six years that they keep failing at?

Just like swinging can give you tremendous confidence and an ego boost, it just as easily gives me crushing blows to my ego and destroys my confidence. When you play with a couple that you think you hit it off with well, you feel great. When that same couple dismisses you when you approach them about meeting again (without so much as any kind of explanation or a "no thanks, it didn't work for us") and then just stops talking to you in general, it makes you - maybe not you, but me - have serious questions about yourself. Yes, I know couples that do this could have a whole host of reasons unrelated to me/us, but the fact is that I question myself and I wonder what I did wrong. What the hell did I say this time? Did I not fuck her good enough? Is my dick too small? Did he not find my wife attractive enough? Did she do something wrong? If people in the lifestyle would actually act like adults and communicate with each other, people wouldn't have to ask themselves these kinds of questions. A lot of confidence could be spared.

Which brings me to the next reason I hate the lifestyle. Nobody knows how to communicate. When we first got into the lifestyle, this board and the people who posted on it were a tremendous help. We lurked for a long time reading the posts and one theme resonated - communication. Of course, it seems that the only people that communication is recommended for are newbies. It's almost like once you communicate with each other about getting in the lifestyle, communication with others is unnecessary. Nobody talks to each other. If they don't want to get together with you, they just ignore you. If they were offended by something you said/did, they ignore you. Yes means no, no means yes, maybe means fuck you. You are just left to "get the hint", which is lame.

Example: there is this couple we have seen at the club a few times and have talked to both in person and online. Last week we emailed and asked them if they wanted to get together last Friday. They emailed back that they were free and wanted to get together. We replied back asking if they preferred dinner/drinks/whatever and gave them our number and said to call us to hammer it out. Do you think we ever heard back from them either by email or phone? This one we chalk up to them being idiots, but instead of them just saying "no thanks, we're busy", now we think they are morons and have no desire to deal with them if we see them again. It's a great example how a failure to communicate has put an early end to what could have been a good friendship.

And then there is trying to meet people. Swing Lifestyle is a joke, considering that for every 100 messages you send out, you MAY get 3 replies and of those 3, you're lucky if one of them turns into a real meeting. Going to the clubs is just as bad. It seems that people are more interested in going to the clubs as a fun night out and for the atmosphere then they are in seeking out people to have sex with. Maybe I'm looking at the clubs sardonically, but we gave up the dating game when we got married. We don't go to the clubs to engage in courtship rituals and to act like we're single again - we go to find sex.

I used to try and just brush these things off, but it gets hard when they happen consistently and often over the course of six years. The lifestyle has made me question myself, given me reason to lose confidence and frustrated the hell out of me. Another great example is when I read stories or posts on this board about people having regular play partners and raving about how happy they are with those situations, I start to wonder "what the hell are they doing right and what the hell are we doing wrong?" Again, it starts to be a confidence killer.

Anyhow, thanks for reading. I guess my only hope from posting this is that someone else on this board feels (or has felt) the same way and can offer something helpful or insightful. We will still keep plugging away sending Swing Lifestyle emails and going to clubs and trying to meet people but it's just seeming less and less worth it to us as time goes on.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by iapr

If you don't like the club scene what do you like? Whatever it is I betcha good money there are thousands of other people across the country and probalby hundreds within a few hours drive that enjoy the same thing.

I was looking back through some of your older posts and ran across this thread and the above advice caught my attention.

One thing I have found with most people who feel that the lifestyle isn't giving them what they want is that they are either expecting too much or trying too hard to make things work. From reading your posts it seems like everything you try in order to meet people who fit your criteria isn't working for you. This leads me to a question for you...

What is it EXACTLY that you are looking for within the lifestyle? What are you hoping to find/ accomplish? Your post confuses me in that regard because on one hand it seems like you want people you can have repeat fun with (I'm not sure if you are wanting friendship or just FBs with a couple) but then on the other hand you mention that you hate the idea of "courting" when you are just there for sex. You can't have it both ways. Either you just want sex or you want more. If you just want sex, then it really shouldn't matter if it happens again.

Back to the post I quoted above. Swing Lifestyle has this great feature now called "Groups" (we are hoping to add something like this here on SwingersBoard with the next software upgrade). Groups are great because they allow you to do just what IAPR suggested, find people with similar interests and build meets around those interests. For us, we like wine, and guess what there's a Wine M&G about 90 minutes from us. Unfortunately, it's mid-week usually, but still. Pet and I set up a Dinner M&G for local couples in our area. We like to eat out, and we like the idea of meeting lots of couples at once rather than going on a "date" with just one couple, so this works for us.

The point of IAPR's post in your previous thread and the point I'm making again is that you have to figure out a) what type of people you are looking for, b) what ways you are comfortable meeting them and then combine those two things together.

If what exists doesn't work for you (and this applies to anything swinging or not) then create something that does work for you. It's not about recreating the wheel, just about modifying one so that it fits your vehicle better.

[lustylearning]

Whoa... You've clearly been disappointed by your lifestyle experiences thus far. Before saying anything, I checked your Swing Lifestyle profile. My first impression after reading it is, you're looking for something very specific. And unfortunately, what you're looking for never comes made to order - it develops over time, after achieving a certain comfort level, often times by accident. Intensity of expectations leads to difficult "dating" situations - and frankly, most folks in the lifestyle shun that level of intensity. I understand that you're not looking for exclusivity, but you are, essentially, looking for some kind of commitment, and the more expectations you have, the fewer folks there are that will be available and willing to meet them.

Since we, as a couple, do not require the same thing you seek, it's difficult to offer advice. But we have learned that flexibility allows for far more positive experiences.

We hope you find what you're looking for, but more importantly, we hope you both find joy in the journey, not just in the destination.

[sweet_tna]

Well, JandCMI, I wish I knew what to tell you. I'm one of those lucky people that has been able to find a group of somewhat regular play friends, but I honestly don't know what our "secret" is.

I perved your profile too, and other than the boldfaced/all caps section (which doesn't apply to Mr. Sweet and me anyway), I can't see any reason why you're having such bad luck.

Perhaps there's a black hole in your area for "good" swingers? Perhaps you've had a bad run of luck? I don't know. Have you taken any breaks in this time from the lifestlye? If you're not having fun (and possibly getting a bit jaded), then perhaps it's time to step back a bit. Enjoy the time with your wife, and wrap yourselves in each other. Sometimes banging your head against a wall only gives you a headache.

If you're determined enough to keep trying, then perhaps try a new approach. Go to a different club, try different ad sites. I'm sure some of the more experienced folks here can empathize with you and provide much better advice.

Best of luck to ya'll,

=)

[JandCMI]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

What is it EXACTLY that you are looking for within the lifestyle? What are you hoping to find/ accomplish? Your post confuses me in that regard because on one hand it seems like you want people you can have repeat fun with (I'm not sure if you are wanting friendship or just FBs with a couple) but then on the other hand you mention that you hate the idea of "courting" when you are just there for sex. You can't have it both ways. Either you just want sex or you want more. If you just want sex, then it really shouldn't matter if it happens again.

When I said "courting" and "acting like we are dating", maybe I should have clarified. We aren't in to sitting around four hours drinking beers and yakking and dancing endlessly. We aren't in to acting like we are in 10th grade and have just seen a real pair of tits for the first time. We like conversing with people first and we like to know if we personally and physically find them attractive. We don't require much time to figure out if we are interested but accept that most other people we find ourselves with don't move as fast.

Honestly, I'd rather masturbate then have bad swinger sex. That said, when we hit it off "well" with someone else sexually, we want to repeat it with them because we know it was good. We do want sex, primarily, but aren't interested in just doing one-timers with different people (any more than necessary) because, well, that's just no fun to us.

And you're probably right. We are probably expecting too much out of the lifestyle.

[VegasLee]

We have been doing this for many, many years. We have had "dry spells" and when we look at them we have found it was what we are doing, not what others are doing. We know for a fact you get out of it what you put into it and at times we just don't put into what we should for it to be the way we want it to be. Takes a lot to look at yourself and see that at times though. Been there a few times and it is always very hard to look at yourself and see it is you that is the problem.

MOST of the people that play this lifestyle on the Internet are not IN this lifestyle. It is an on line fantasy to them and they don't follow through.

We swing for the sex. We have made friends but never go looking for them. There are very, very few people that we have had sex with that we had sex with them a second time. It was nothing personal or anything they said or did in most cases, we just are not looking to keep having sex with the same people. That is what we have each other for, regular sex that we love!
There are people that we have had sex with that we see every weekend at the club that we have never had sex with again and some that we hook up with again maybe every six months or a year apart. It is new again and works for them and us. There has never been any hard feelings about not having sex when we see them or anything else.

There are certain people out there or groups that do just what your looking for but in our experience, most do not. They don't want to be there for you when you want them. They are in it the same way many are, for the fun and move on.

You don't want to sit for hours talking, dancing and drinking. Don't do that then. Go to the club, find people you are attracted to, talk to them a bit, get to the point and if it does not click move on to the next ones. That is the great thing about most clubs, there are many choices available to you in one night.

Don't do the things you don't want to do. Get out and do the things you do want to do. Think about what you are looking for though. Many are not going to want to be your "friends" and be there week after week or what ever . Many of those that do play want to play with others and new people when they can.

Just because others like to play the dating game, talk, laugh, drink and dance does not mean they are in the 10th grade, they are doing what is working for them.

I would suggest doing just what works for you, stop worrying about what others do and stop judging them for what works for them. It appears to spend a fair amount of time worrying about what is not working and not working on the things that do work for you.

Let it go and have some fun. Spell it out more just what you want on your profiles if you want to play the Internet game. Go to the clubs, get down to business and find what it is you want. Keep it simple.

You said yourself, you over think things. Don't. This is not really something you need to think about that hard.

[good times]

I went ahead and perved your Swing Lifestyle profile too (very good profile by the way), and the only thing I can see is that what you are looking for is very specific and well laid out, but I will have to admit, I have met very few folks that meet all of your requirements. Keep in mind that the less flexible you are in what you are seeking, the more flexible those you seek would have to be. The reason for that is, while I have meet a lot of swingers, I have met very few that see swinging the same way, or have the exact same desires and expectations.

While it is good that you know exactly what you want, if their is no flexibility there, you need to be very patient in finding it. Based on my understanding, after reading your profile, it doesn't surprise me that you are having a bit of trouble finding exactly what you are looking for. We have been swinging actively for about six years, and I'll have to admit, we have only played with a few couples in that time that we would really want to play with again. Even fewer couples that we actually have played with more than once. Fortunately, that is fine with us. But in your case, I would expect that that is a lot of what you find frustrating. With four people that all have to click together, it isn't unusual for one of the four to decide that they don't want to go there again. I actually think that what you are seeking in regards to repeat play with others, is something that happens by accident more often than it is successfully sought out.

Other than that, without knowing you personally, I can't really give any insight into what the problem might be. I do suspect that you may be trying to hard though, which most folks can pick up on and will be put off by.

[Additude]

JandCMI28,

Just my first impressions after reading your post(s) and gazing at your Swing Lifestyle profile. I offer constructive critism, absolutely from my layman experience...I be no professional critic by any means

Your Swing Lifestyle profile is all pretty specific, outlined, refined and defined, dot to dot to dot to.......

I think you may be looking for to much to fast. Lighten up a little, I have to say that to me yor Swing Lifestyle profile kinda sounds like you have a "Chip on your Shoulder". In the first paragraph...two references to "Bullshit" drama, games, stringing along.... I don't think that's a good way to start.....and not just the writing part, but the approach is wrong....especially in person.

How about "We are a no drama kind of couple, honest, straight forward, we don't play games and won't string you along".

So Chill bro ......your Swing Lifestyle profile says no drama.....but I read and see bunches of drama in your Swing Lifestyle writing.....and also in this thread.

In your second post you talk about not being into going to clubs and drinking beers all night and dancing, etc.... but other people are, maybe they go there to meet for sex, maybe they go there for the fun of it....maybe for both....but maybe that's where you gotta be to find what your looking for.

I just offer a suggestion for you to relax a little. I think your anticipation is getting the best of you. I can tell your an intelligent person, I think your allowing the logic of this get in the way of your reasoning....

OK, but you didn't ask for feedback on your profile and writing, etc.... I just thought I could help.

The lifestyle can be tough sometimes.....I hear what your saying, I know where your coming from.....but you might have to change if you want it to change.

[fun4Ds]

With Additude. I know for us, we know what we want, we dont want someone exactly like us. We are learning to adjust, with a few more changes or alterations in our lifestyle searches, for one.

Some things take time, we dont know it all, but we know what we learn from. Our experiances. Good and Bad

[des1re06]

We simply want to meet people (not necessarily exclusive) that we can get together with on a semi-regular basis. That's it.

If you're not finding what you want, then I suggest you create your own group. That's what we did and it works very well. After reading your profile, this seems like it would be a good fit for you. Either join a group already formed and get to know them or form your own.

We had been in the lifestyle for just a few months when we formed our own house party group. Even if you don't want people coming to your house, you can still meet up at other places, and go to an on-premise club as a group.

Another thought is to join multiple sites, if you haven't already.

Just a suggestion.

Mrs. D

[graygo98]

Not meaning to downplay your frustration, but this lifestyle stuff is just not that hard. If it isn't working for you, it might be because it isn't right for you. Isn't the definition of crazy to keep doing the same thing and hoping for a different result?

For what its worth I would suggest either looking closely at what you are looking for and seeing if its possible to maybe relax just a bit, or else reconsidering whether swinging is something that works for you and your marriage.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by VegasLee

We have been doing this for many, many years. We have had "dry spells" and when we look at them we have found it was what we are doing, not what others are doing.

Lee, can you be more specific... in the times you found swinging not working for you, what was it that you were doing that you found you needed to change?

[LikeMinds321]

Hi JandCMI! Welcome back to posting. I've missed you and your flying dog. That is a beagle isn't it?

Everyone has frustrating moments in the lifestyle because things don't always go as we hope.

In some cases it's because you need to make some changes, and many times it's because people out there in SwingLand are going to be the way they're going to be, and you have to accept it; it comes down to how YOU decide to handle this fact. You can't change them but you can change how you react to them.

As Additude mentioned, your profile sends a message that you're not happy with what you've experienced. You sound jaded, angry, and you never want that to come across in your profile. It's a turn off to people and it's probably keeping the best in the bunch away from you, and instead, you're attracting people that have disappointed you. I suggest a rewrite.

I don't think you have to go to clubs to meet people. My take on you guys is that you're probably more comfortable being with one or two couples, just hanging loose and hitting it off. If large swinger environments (clubs) make you uneasy, don't go there. You have already tried that, you gave it a shot, and it's not you. That's okay. Focus on meeting people privately and maybe that will lead to another couple they know, and another, and then you'll find yourselves with a smaller group of swingers who find things to do together that doesn't involve clubs.

If swinging is feeling like too much work, take a break for a time. You can always go back again.

LM

[VegasLee]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

Lee, can you be more specific... in the times you found swinging not working for you, what was it that you were doing that you found you needed to change?

It was not so much that "swinging" in general was not working, it was that at times the sex part was not happening and after reviewing it, it was our own fault.

We would get sucked into that "social trap" that happens at many times. Sitting and hanging out with people we know. Sitting around talking, not exploring, not finding people to play with. Not keeping the right attitude about things in general.

I would sit there and listen to others we know complaining that nothing has been going on lately, they are not partying, just sitting back waiting for it to come to them and it was not happening. They are spending to much time complaining about things not happening but doing nothing to make anything happen.

After awhile I find us falling into that same trap at times. When you look at yourself, as I have at times I try to find every reason in the world why it is not working before I take a hard look in the mirror and see that reason is ME! From what everyone tells me that is human nature, look for fault in the Lifestyle or others rather then look at myself. I hate that and I hate it more when I find I am the one doing it.

Life and this Lifestyle are what you make of it, nothing more. I get in moods and have to really look at myself at times to find out why I am not making my life what I want it to be. Every time when I look hard enough I find I am the problem, not others around me. I wake up and don't allow the things going on around me to dictate what MY LIFE is going to be and all is well again.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by VegasLee

After awhile I find us falling into that same trap at times. When you look at yourself, as I have at times I try to find every reason in the world why it is not working before I take a hard look in the mirror and see that reason is ME! From what everyone tells me that is human nature, look for fault in the Lifestyle or others rather then look at myself. I hate that and I hate it more when I find I am the one doing it.

Life and this Lifestyle are what you make of it, nothing more. I get in moods and have to really look at myself at times to find out why I am not making my life what I want it to be. Every time when I look hard enough I find I am the problem, not others around me. I wake up and don't allow the things going on around me to dictate what MY LIFE is going to be and all is well again.

That is so true. I remember one psych professor I had said that it is actually more psychologically healthy to blame things outside of yourself than to blame yourself for your shortcomings and weaknesses (less stress). Not that he was saying that was the right thing to do.

I do think most of us do that. I find often that I am the most stressed when there are things about me/ around me that I want to change and I know I'm the only one that can do it but I just haven't figured out HOW to do it yet. If I could just blame everyone else and say it's their fault nothing is changing, I'd be a lot less stressed out! LOL. But, in the end I know that I'm the only one that can change things.