Why I Hate the Lifestyle

[WildMiCouple]

JandC, we've attended most of the off-premise dances around Detroit. What we've noticed is that generally, the younger 20-30 crowd is more interested in the flirting aspect of the dances vs hooking up afterward. And that the dances held at hotels have a higher percentage of couples that actually like to play.
So if you haven't been to one of the hotel dances, perhaps you should give it a try. And don't be afraid to approach us couples in our 40's. Most of us are there to play

Brett

[ALilOEverything]

I think it sounds like you need a break, I've been there before. After taking a break I came back refreshed and with a different attitude and a different idea of what I was looking for. There is definitely a lot of frustration with finding good playparters but I think you'll find the more upbeat and positive your attitude becomes the more people will want to play with you. And don't be afraid of playing with someone outside of your ideal, they just might surprise you. Some of the best experiences I ever had were with those who I wouldn't have first thought were fun. There are a lot of great fun swingers in Michigan

[sexcupid]

I really don't have anything particuarly good to add here...but felt I should throw in my .02 worth anyway. lol

First of all, the other people's reactions may have nothing to do with you. While you may think everything went well...and it may have for that evening...maybe they aren't into having repeat partners.

I mean, I get the feeling that what you describe (having bascially a circle of friends/acquaintances that play every so often...not necessarily exclusive, but repeat performances) is the ideal for many swingers...but quite a few people really just aren't looking for that.

They are here more for the variety and tend to take a 'been there, done that approach'. If it was a good experience, they'll take it an go with it. Why? Because the next time may be too familiar and not as exciting for them...so why diminish the original awesome experience they have had with another experience that may not be as intense or amazing in their eyes.

The thing is, some of the questions you posted up in your original post...did I not fuck good enough, dick too small, wife not attractive enough, etc...honestly, would it make you feel any better if someone did answer those questions? I would take it as more of an ego blow to be ripped apart like that instead of just chalking it up to 'eh, their loss if they don't want to play again'.

I do think your expectations are too high...but maybe you do need to change up your MO...you may not like the clubs, but go. Starting your own group around an activity or house party is a good idea that other posters mentioned.

As for your presumption that some people may not have their shit as together as y'all do...you may be right...but there are plenty of people that just take a 'go with the flow' attitude and let that guide them rather than being overly specific in what they are looking for.

Good luck!

[LFM2]

Originally Posted by VegasLee

We swing for the sex. We have made friends but never go looking for them. There are very, very few people that we have had sex with that we had sex with them a second time. It was nothing personal or anything they said or did in most cases, we just are not looking to keep having sex with the same people. That is what we have each other for, regular sex that we love!
There are people that we have had sex with that we see every weekend at the club that we have never had sex with again and some that we hook up with again maybe every six months or a year apart. It is new again and works for them and us. There has never been any hard feelings about not having sex when we see them or anything else.

Exactly! This is our view of swinging and it works for us. It doesn't make swinging hard or too difficult. We aren't bound by one type of couple, and are only limited by our imagination. There are NO expectations and no hard feelings.

Originally Posted by VegasLee

Many are not going to want to be your "friends" and be there week after week or what ever . Many of those that do play want to play with others and new people when they can.

I think this is true as well. It least it is where we are.

Originally Posted by VegasLee

Let it go and have some fun. Spell it out more just what you want on your profiles if you want to play the Internet game. Go to the clubs, get down to business and find what it is you want. Keep it simple.

Again, very well said.

JandC, I might have read your whole post wrong, but it sounds like you're looking for something like a poly relationship. I'm not sure, but it just sounds like it to me. If I read your post right, something about keeping one certain couple for play all the time. It could even be you might want to find more couples just for play all the time. Not just a one time fling and maybe meet up again six months later and have another fling.

Dave and I have swing personalities more like VegasLee and his wife. We have no expectations when we meet a couple. Even if we think they're great and we think we match, they may not think that and we're ready for that. If that's the situation, that's OK. We don't fret and we don't dwell on it. We start again and look for that great couple. Not everyone is going to mesh. That's just life. We don't blame Swing Lifestyle for couples not writing back to us. That's people and maybe just their personality. Sometimes their lives are so busy, maybe they don't have time to write back or maybe they had a situation come up that doesn't allow them to get back in a timely fashion. We don't make swinging into a job. We swing on our terms, not anyone else's. When we want really great sex, we have sex with each other.
Just our $0.02.
Holly

[Edison Carter]

Susan here-- Sex can be like politics where they say if you want a dear, good friend, buy a dog.

You are expecting wayyyyyy too much from people you hardly know. You are also expecting way too much personal validation from a casual sex partner. If you are courteous, engaging, think of others, consider your actions, show up on time, etc, I'll let you in on a little secret--you're in the minority. If you expect to be treated as well as you treat others, when these 'others' are quite random connections in your life, you are going to be really pissed off. Whoops, you are !

Reading your 'rant' it is apparent you are expecting a return on the emotional capital you invest in your sex partners. You should not be doing that. You're not picking out curtains together, you're getting laid. If you have a great time, that night, in that moment, you should leave it at that.

I have a friend who works as a film director. He had a really great first effort and spent three years looking for that perfect project. Finally his agent told him he needed to get back to directing a film, because not everything that came his way had to have been bad, he was getting way to selective to meet an expectation that was impossible.

He did finally get busy working again. I think the two of you need to go out, smile, have fun and fuck.

[JandCMI]

Thanks for the replies. Honestly, what I had hoped to get across in this post was that flighty people, people who use ignoring as a preferred method of communication and other behaviors in the lifestyle are pissing me off. It was a rant, after all. We've been doing this for almost six years and aren't shocked by this stuff (seeing that it's all happened to us on multiple occasions), but that doesn't mean it still doesn't bother us. My wife and I are a lot different in that she just says "people are dumb" and that's the end of it for her. I, on the other hand, post shit like this on the internet. We are all different from each other and that is just the way I am.

I also know that sometimes you have to change your approach when things aren't working. We have changed our approach in the past in the lifestyle and will continue to do so in the future. I certainly hope my post didn't convey the message that we are doing the exact same things over and over again since day one and then sitting here whining when things keep going sour. We aren't. We've had good luck and we've had bad luck (albeit a lot more bad luck than good).

But the two bits of advice that I think are worth taking, and that I appreciate being given, are that I need to just chill and enjoy the experiences we have and to stop having such high expectations of others, as well as modifying some of the "angry" language in our profile. You guys are right, after re-reading it myself it does come across kind of pissed off.

[yourbitterpill]

It's interesting to read the responses here and the circular reasoning some of you are using. "You're expecting too much", then "What do you want out of the lifestyle?". Well, we think JandCMI spelled it out fairly well in their profile what they "expect" from their partners.

Like us, just because you're keen to the idea of forming some sort of regular swinging relationship with another couple or couples, doesn't automatically mean that you're poly. In our experience, we've found that we have much more fun being with others on a somewhat regular basis and getting to know what they like, what turns them on, etc. It has nothing to do with us wanting to "keep" another couple and we don't "expect" it either. It's a nice benefit. JandCMI aren't expecting that of their partners. Those of you who think they are need to re-read their profile - it says as much.

If you are courteous, engaging, think of others, consider your actions, show up on time, etc, I'll let you in on a little secret--you're in the minority. If you expect to be treated as well as you treat others, when these 'others' are quite random connections in your life, you are going to be really pissed off.

So, what? JandCMI should just treat others and be treated themselves like dirt? We all have "other" lives and other commitments of our freetime and, if you're a well-mannered individual, you both give that to and expect that of others. Common social courtesy doesn't become obsolete with someone you're going to fuck. If you don't think that's true (whether in a swinging or non-swinging situation), then you might want to take a good look at your level of self-respect. It's almost certainly lacking.

JandCMI - Don't worry about it. We've been in the exact same situation as you. Just try not to dwell on it. The vast majority of the time it has absolutely nothing to do with you - most people in general just do not know what they want or are too afraid of the "what if...?".

WildMiCouple has a good point. There are A LOT of ppl our age (late 20s/early 30s) who just like the idea of flirting and a good mindfuck and hide behind the anonymity of the internet to get what they want. Don't give up your wants because some people think it's too much of an "expectation". Those "expectations" are what YOU want out of the lifestyle and isn't that what we're all here for?

[iapr]

Originally Posted by JandCMI

When I said "courting" and "acting like we are dating", maybe I should have clarified. We aren't in to sitting around four hours drinking beers and yakking and dancing endlessly. We aren't in to acting like we are in 10th grade and have just seen a real pair of tits for the first time. We like conversing with people first and we like to know if we personally and physically find them attractive. We don't require much time to figure out if we are interested but accept that most other people we find ourselves with don't move as fast.

Honestly, I'd rather masturbate then have bad swinger sex. That said, when we hit it off "well" with someone else sexually, we want to repeat it with them because we know it was good. We do want sex, primarily, but aren't interested in just doing one-timers with different people (any more than necessary) because, well, that's just no fun to us.

And you're probably right. We are probably expecting too much out of the lifestyle.

This post kind of struck a cord with me and brought back some memories and frustrations from my youth. When I was young, dumb and full of cum I at times felt this frustration about women in general. I didn't want to have a full blown relationship I just wanted quick and easy sex with minimum investment of time and energy but yet if the sex was good I wanted it on a somewhat regular basis.

so here was the problem. there were chicks that would do me on a regular basis but we essentially had to be dating and have a relationship. And there were also gals that I could put in some minimal flirting and schmoozing and they would go with me from the bar for a one nighter.

BUT, if I ever showed up wanting a quick and easy fuck from bar chicks again they were either not interested at all in hooking up again because they were only after a one nighter themselves or they wanted me to pony up and date them and have a relationship with them.

Either way it comes out that in reality people just don't very often just hand out quick and easy sex on a regular basis without some form of relationship.

My experiences have been somewhat similar in the lifestyle. You can go to a party and have a one-nighter and all is fine and grand. You are a porn star for a night. But to try and relive that moment again is just chasing your tail and it never comes around again.

You can have regular play dates but they are going to cost you in that you are going to pretty much start having vanilla dinner dates and weekly card games and family barbecues. You can also have a magic moment one night hook-up of hot steamy sex without much initial courting or investment but the chances of it happening again are pretty darn slim.

you can have sex be quick and easy and have a string of one or possibly two-nighters with different people on an indefinate basis or you can pay a higher cost of time and energy up front and enter into some kind of ongoing relationship and deal with all those complicatoins. But regular cheap, easy and uncomplicated sex on an ongoing basis just really isn't part of the human animal.

[4Beauty2C]

We would rather have a few cpls who are long term to us that we can go back to every now and again. Earlier in the years of swinging though we always had times where we flat out stated to the variety of cpls we were to meet randomly if we did not hear from them by a certain time we moved on. Open communication and trust among other things lol. That is what we like in our couples.