When swing partners are forced to be counselors

[buttermilkxyz]

Oh boy.....new to the scene and we have been seeing another couple for about two months now. Very friendly, lots of calls and text messages, and both my wife and I have been getting along very well with our counter parts.

However, while I like this woman, sexually it is not happening for me. I look forward to seeing her and get excitied for it, and we have a great time until we reach the bed room. While I have performed, each time there has been some type of mood killer via something that I find ill timed or, quite frankly, not sexy in the least. And without going into detail, this last time together was, well, one for the books.

Additionally, there has been a lot of drama between the other couple which centers around their relationship and their activities with others. On some levels, my wife and I have been cast in the role of counselors. Generally speaking, I have no problem with this if I felt there was a payoff. I like helping if I can. But now I'm asking myself, what's in it for me? The answer was a cool woman and sex. The cool woman is still there but the sex is getting harder and harder with less satisfaction.

So, to this point the situation seem pretty clear, right? Sounds like we should at least take a break and possibly end it. However, due to various issues my wife has not yet gone all the way with him, and she is excited to do so, so what do i do?

Unselfishly my thought is to bite the bullet and continue for a few more weeks taking one for the team until my wife gets what she wants. However, that charade is not pleasant to me as I know it will hurt the other woman even further, not to mention how I will feel. On the other hand, should I expect my wife to be admittedly disappointed and end it along with me? This is the first couple we have been with so from that perspective there is emotional tie in for her.

After week one with this couple I sensed many of these issues (primarily the drama) and suggested to my wife we end it then, quickly. But she thought I was being silly and she liked him and wanted to continue. I wish I would have listened to my gut then and gotten out as it would have been far easier and less "costly" at that time.

I really don't know what to do and would appreciate any feedback or suggestions you may have. Thanks

[good times]

Sorry to say this happens once in a while. We have had it happen several times where one of us wants to proceed with a couple and the other decides after one or two play sessions that their partner just doesn't do it for them. The best thing to do from our experience is if it isn't working for one of you then you should both wrap it up and move on. Yea, it is a bummer for the one who wants to continue, and it is especially hard if you like the other couple outside the bedroom, but in the end we have found that if one is taking one for the team it just never works out good in the end.

[bigjoehd]

Situations like yours are exactly the reason both my wife & I will not play with couples any longer,we only see single people,more times than not for us things either started in drama or ended in drama with either jealous husbands calling stop durring play time because somebody broke a silly rule or a jealous wife having some sort of problem.

We both got seriously frustrated with couples after having to remember rules,no touch zones,words to not say,looking at the clock for agreed on time limits with closed door play & other assorted childish things.

Our last time with another couple ended with us sitting there listening to the other couple argue about her doing something "THEY" agreed wouldnt happen,we still dont know what the hell they were screaming about but the whole ordeal was enough for us both to say NEVER AGAIN.

If i were you i'd run for the hill's because from your brief explainmation it sounds like the drama is getting worse each time.

[Mr. Truelove]

Bigjoehd

Not all couples are that way. Sorry to hear you've had some bad apples.

Mr. Truelove

[sereneiders]

Well, as I see this, they key here is "this is our first coulple". There are many, many other couples you'd be able to hang and have sex whith, whithout all of this drama.

You could even turn this couple into vanilla friends as to enjoy spending time with them, but the question would be: without the sex, would you? If you wouldn't, then it is just for the sex, and if the sex isn't working for you... you get my point, right?

What I'd advice against is the whole concept of "taking one for the team". What does this mean? That you wife would be owing you one, so if something like what's happening to you today happens to her in the future, she would have to pay back and take one for the team as you did, screwing a guy against her desires as for you to be able to get laid with the chick you like?

Nope, it doesn't work this way, moreover, you're calling for disaster here.

I guess the problem is that you made an investment on this couple, that in order to reach to this point where you're confortable enough as to have fun you two spent time and made an effort you'd hate to waste, and the sight of engaging in such an effort again (giving what you learn it may happen anyday) is a pain in the ass. If I am guessing right here, then, even if you don't have sex, you already got a reward: you learn about people, you learn that things doesn't necesarily fit our wishes and fantasies. You may have now an early alarm to warn you about this sort of things in the future.

My advice is: do not increase the loss, just move on.

[WesternSwing]

buttermilkxyz, if it was us... we'd end it with that couple and start looking for a new one. This should be fun. If it isn't, move-on. You're wife may be hurt at first, but she should understand that this is not how the Lifestyle should be. And you should not have to take one for th team. Start looking for a new couple and you're wife will quickly discover that this guy is not the only one around.

Mr. WS

[bigjoehd]

Originally Posted by Mr. Truelove

Bigjoehd

Not all couples are that way. Sorry to hear you've had some bad apples.

Mr. Truelove

I know your right but more often than not with couples new to this there are jealousy issues,control issues & other things like couples trying to save a dying relationship by swinging,these things make for a horrible experience for anybody who has to deal with it & from the op's post it seems that they have found a couple with serious issues that they need to work on.

Both myself & my wife are as open & honest as can be about all of this but neither of us has the want to deal with other peoples insecurities,there is something that most couples new to all of this fail to realize, there are other peoples feelings & emotions that are involved not just their own.

[bigjoehd]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

This should be fun. If it isn't, move-on.
Mr. WS

Great advice,as soon as this stops being more fun than drama its time to move on,you will find another couple & as was mentioned in another post in this thread dont worry about the time you spent finding this couple as it was not wasted,now you know what happens when things dont work out & have a better idea of who your looking for.

[sereneiders]

As an aside, it is remarkable how often we fall in this sort of scenarios when we're beginners.

Disregarding those couples who come here after falling and didn't come before, I wonder if we're not failing in providing advice in an early stage, for those who may seek for information but, preciselly because of the lack of experience, cannot foresight the issues they may bump against later as to feel the need to ask questions about it. So, even if they come looking for advice before trying, they wouldn't be able to figure out about some questions to take into account.

Specifically, I notice this stone making a lot of beginners stumble (and this happened to us as well): the overconfidence on the relationship skills we know we have in the vanilla world as a way to compensate the lack of confidence we feel in this new world. IMO, this is what lead the beginners to the whole "friends first" (miss)conception, supposing this way they would be able to have more control over the situations that may arouse.

There's nothing wrong about the "friends first" request by itself, unless we request this as an attempt to control an scenario full of features we're not even aware of, moreover when the other couple, even when requesting the same "firends first", is looking for sex... as we ultimatelly do, because if we weren't pursuing the swinging experience, hardly we'd pursue an unknown couple to make friends.

The problem here is, we know we may not impose a friendship over people in the vanilla world, but as the last resort, not knowing what else to do to reasure ourselves at the sight of this new experience, we forget about this detail, perhaps supposing that having the other couple the same request, each couple would be trying to impose the same and overcome this detail.

On the other hand, once you feel reasured enough, you start focusing on the sex. The whole "friend first" approach accomplished the goal for you, so your motivation to hold the friendship subsides, even when for some of the other parties the approach still didn't help accomplish the goal.

I believe the OP current situation in the exmaple for this mechanism: everyone involved except the other couple's wife is ready, they accomplished the reasurance goal, and now the OP, once confident he could enforce an artificial frienship commitment, begins to question this commitment value once realizing this other woman wasn't able to keep the peace (or that there could be other issues in her marriage that get on the way).

Once here, everyone is trapped in an emotional and ethical problem: Should the OP follow the "move on" advice, he would be betraying the friendship commitment. Should the OP and his wife turn this relationship into a vanilla one, deprived from sex, as a way to avoid this betrayal, they could find out there aren't enough shared interests besides the sex to feed the bond, wich could become a hurfull loss for everyone involved. Should the OP honor the commitment in the current situation, he'd be taking "one for the team" at the risk of damaging his own marriage in the future.

So, I believe it's worth to point out for the beginners that the "friends first" request is ok, but that they should take an in deepth look at the motivations leading them (and others) to the "friends first" request. Also, that it would be worth to discuss and find out alternatives to this request, able to provide the reasurance we're looking for when facing the first experiences, because it's easy to say the "dont do it", but unless we can provide an alternative, people wouldn't be up to a free fall but get rid of any resource at hand that they feel or believe give them some control, even when pointed out as a mistaken approach.

[buttermilkxyz]

Thank you to all for your responses, and I have a follow up...has anyone been successful in reverting to a vanilla relationship with another couple?

Personally, I don't see how that is possible. When I think back at the girlfriends I had late teens, early twenties, seeing them after we had broken up....it was essentially a free pass. It was friends with benefits (as long as I was not a jerk at time of break up!). My wife has shared similar stories from her past as well.

Apply this to the current situation...I find it very likely that jumping into bed on a whim has a high propbability, given the right circumstances or situation.

So again, has anyone had success at reverting to vanilla? And if so, what were the key issues to resolve?

[WesternSwing]

We have been in this type of a situation, but reversed. The husband of the other couple played with Mrs. WS on several occasions always with the expectation that I'd be able to play with his wife (there was and still is a strong mutual attraction between us). It's never happened, he just had too many issues about sharing his wife with another man (although they have had many FMF's). Finally, Mrs. WS had to simply say "hey, if Mrs. WS isn't getting any than you're not either." He understood because he knew the issues were his and the situation wasn't fair.

We are still good friends with them. They are still in the Lifestyle. Our relationship has just been clearly defined now.

Can't say it would always work out this way though. It takes good people to understand and own their own shit and thus not let it effect the rest of the friendship.

Mr. WS

[LFM2]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

buttermilkxyz, if it was us... we'd end it with that couple and start looking for a new one. This should be fun. If it isn't, move-on. You're wife may be hurt at first, but she should understand that this is not how the Lifestyle should be. And you should not have to take one for th team. Start looking for a new couple and you're wife will quickly discover that this guy is not the only one around.

Mr. WS

Oh so true!! Ditto to that!