Rohypnol at a party - Somone put it in our drinks!

[sereneiders]

This is something hard to say, but it deserve to be said.

Folks, you two will have to test yourselves for STDs. Rohypnol renders your will so useless that is someone proposed you to have sex without condoms, the more likely is that you "agreed" and did it, no matter how strong is your will about condoms use otherwise.

If you believe that you dindn't had bare sex just because you experience tells you that no matter how drunk or dopped you were before, you managed to avoid doing it, such an experience cannot be correlated with your behavior under Rohypnol. Believe me, if someone tried to have bare sex with one of you, you either said "YES" with a wide smile in your face, or were unable to answer back and prevent it from happening.

Sorry for bringing bad news, but it's the raw truth. This alone worth to consider reporting this to the police.

BTW, in my previous posts I was against reporting this to the police, but because my oppinion is biased towards what could happen in my country with the police. From the posts so far it seems to me you people trust them more than me in the police, and since you're there, I am changing my mind about this subject.

[WesternSwing]

Having read all the posts here, I have to agree that taking this to the proper authorities is the right approach. If you have been banned from this hosts group list then for some reason or another they are hiding from you. They know something about what happened and don't want to face it. All you have to tell the authorities is that it was a party, period. They don't need to know anything past that. And even if they did they can't release names unless it is the person who is charged, and you're the victim.

I feel terrible for you, and I truly believe that every action has an opposite and at least equal reaction. Maybe not in the same way it was administered, but kharma calls collect.

Good luck, and our thoughts are with you.

Mr. WS

[CandPinSA]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

Having read all the posts here, I have to agree that taking this to the proper authorities is the right approach. If you have been banned from this hosts group list then for some reason or another they are hiding from you. They know something about what happened and don't want to face it. All you have to tell the authorities is that it was a party, period. They don't need to know anything past that. And even if they did they can't release names unless it is the person who is charged, and you're the victim.

I feel terrible for you, and I truly believe that every action has an opposite and at least equal reaction. Maybe not in the same way it was administered, but kharma calls collect.

Good luck, and our thoughts are with you.

Mr. WS

You know? Like many other's here, this thread has been on my mind so much since it was tarted. I just can't get over the anger I feel for someone doing this. For Heaven's sake, you were there to have sex. There was certainly no reason to drug anyone for the sex, since everyone was already there for that purpose. It makes me very angry because there can only be one reason for this to happen.... and that would be so that whoever did it could have their way with you and do to you, whatever they wanted without you having to agree. The truth is there is no telling what may have been done, including videos, photos, other people that may have shown up without anyone's knowledge and been involved, etc. After putting much more thought into this:

YES, ABSOLUTELY, you should go to the police. They DON'T CARE if you were there as swingers. They do not need to know that anyway. They only need to know how many people were there, their descriptions, and their names if you have them. To Hell with the hosts if they have banned you and won't let you find out what happened. It is possible it was them that did it, or it's possible you did something for a while before passing out, that they banned you for. Regardless of the reason you have been banned, whoever did it, certainly did violate your rights by drugging you. And they need to be caught and punished. Please PLEASE get a copy of the medical reports from the hospital, either ask the hospital to notify the police, or contact the authorities yourselves. You must do this. Really... in my opinion, you absolutely must. AND BY ALL MEANS GET TESTED FOR EVERY THING YOU CAN THINK OF....including, although expensive, get the HIV tests.

It really makes me very angry at them for you, and I feel for you as I put myself in your postion in my mind and cannot even begin to imagine how you must feel for it happening. Please don't let this action go unanswered. LAWFULLY.

Mr. C

[2jersey]

From a moral ideological standpoint, we are in complete agreement with those who believe this apparent crime should be reported to the police.

If someone is charged with a crime, however, we would not assume that your privacy will be protected. Aside from a few exceptions (which vary by State), court records are open to the public (including the news media).

In this case (party because of the nature of the party you attended), we would assume that the news media will be interested in covering and sensationalizing the facts. This is particularly likely if you live in a small community.

If we did decide to report the crime, we would probably consult with an attorney first to see what, if anything, could be done to safeguard our privacy rights.

[womenman6]

"You going to Law Enforcement could prevent future cases of rape, and that

in itself is reason enough to come forward"


Truelove wrote that .

I think thats what u have to do.

what happend here is the worest case senario for a swinger( beside catching STDS)

I feel for u guys . Hope you feel better .

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by 2jersey

If someone is charged with a crime, however, we would not assume that your privacy will be protected. Aside from a few exceptions (which vary by State), court records are open to the public (including the news media).

Actually, one of those exceptions IS rape. The prosecutor can (and usually does) ask that court documents identifying the victim be sealed.

Everybody knows what Kobe Bryant was charged with. Very few remember the name of the woman who charged him, because her name was never revealed throughout the trial. And that was a high profile case.

In this case (party because of the nature of the party you attended), we would assume that the news media will be interested in covering and sensationalizing the facts. This is particularly likely if you live in a small community.

True, but they're bound by the same court NOT to reveal the name, even if they discover it by other means. Again, reference the Bryant case. It didn't take a "Colombo" to figure out the identity of the night clerk who made the charges against him. But nobody had the balls to publish it, for fear of jail time or a civil lawsuit. Which brings me to the next item...

If we did decide to report the crime, we would probably consult with an attorney first to see what, if anything, could be done to safeguard our privacy rights.

Absolutely! But while "safeguarding your privacy" is important, the real advantage to consulting with an attorney is civil liability. Even if there is no criminal prosecution, you probably have grounds for a lawsuit based on the toxicology report alone. I don't think it's much of a case, but faced with the facts and the cost of defending themselves, you might just get them to offer you a settlement. Just a thought...

(BTW, a note about lawyers. I'm not a litigious person, but I regard lawyers like I do handguns and trade unions...IF you need one, you might as well go with the biggest, nastiest, noisiest m**********r you can get your hands on. You want one that will get the job done the first time.)

[TeamSoBe]

Originally Posted by CandPinSA

For Heaven's sake, you were there to have sex. There was certainly no reason to drug anyone for the sex, since everyone was already there for that purpose.

The 'why' is obvious. The people who drugged my wife did it becuase they're ugly and strange and they apparently need their sexual partners to be unconscious to 'consent'. That's why.

Originally Posted by CandPinSA

YES, ABSOLUTELY, you should go to the police. They DON'T CARE if you were there as swingers. They do not need to know that anyway.

It will obviously come up that the event was a consentual sex party and in many areas in the US that will alter the outcome. It's what Deputy Sheriff Bubba and his partner Gator will see as a legitimate example of a rape victim who went out asking for it.

Also, if you didn't do a rape kit and a toxicology test that night then there's no point going to the police days afterward. There would be nothing that they could do other than to take a report to humor you.

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

Originally Posted by JnCC

(BTW, a note about lawyers. I'm not a litigious person, but I regard lawyers like I do handguns and trade unions...IF you need one, you might as well go with the biggest, nastiest, noisiest m**********r you can get your hands on. You want one that will get the job done the first time.)

Exactly........Bruce Cutler comes to mind!!!!

[2jersey]

Originally Posted by JnCC

Absolutely! But while "safeguarding your privacy" is important, the real advantage to consulting with an attorney is civil liability. Even if there is no criminal prosecution, you probably have grounds for a lawsuit based on the toxicology report alone. I don't think it's much of a case, but faced with the facts and the cost of defending themselves, you might just get them to offer you a settlement. Just a thought...

JnCC, we considered the civil lawsuit angle, but we purposely did not raise this as a reason to consult with an attorney. Consulting an attorney for a civil lawsuit (without first reporting the crime) can taint the criminal case and damage the accuser's credibility. A successful prosecution (or even an arrest) will provide a very positive backdrop for a civil lawsuit. Working the system in reverse (i.e. starting with a civil suit) may also put the victim in a position where they don't have the benefit of a proper criminal investigation.

Also, we are aware of the privacy protections regarding rape victims. But, rape has not been alleged in this case, and without an eye witness to a rape, prosecution is likely to be very difficult. The police will undoubtedly lean on alot of people and try to produce an eye witness to rape, if one exists. First course of action - get a search warrant and look for evidence of Rohypnol posession.

[sereneiders]

Ok. So the victims don't want a lawsuit, nor the hosts wants one. Even if the lawsuit were unsuccessful, the entire process this group will have to pass trough would be enough to split it appart.

In the other hand, it's hard to believe the ENTIRE group but the victims were aware of the Rohypnol use. The more likely is that some other guest did it to take adventage of the victim without the rest of the group concern, or perhaps that the host did this sort of things with newcommers just to spice up the scene, but the later case is hard to believe: someone would have been reporting them before, and after several reports the police would be able to build a case against them.

Also, it's likely that the hosts were getting a complain about the way the victims behave during the party. If they didn't threw up later on, it's likely that they did in in the host place. Most of the people doesn't know about the Rohypnol effect as to be able to notice when someone is on Rohypnol, or just drunk or stoned with a recreational drug, moreover if the victims wasn't known boforehand as to tell their behavior was odd for them, thus it's likely that people blamed the victim because of a missbehavior inside the party. If the abuser is a regular member of this group, leading others to complain about the victims behavior with the hosts as to ensure them to be banned would be a way to protect his/her actions. It wouldn't surprise me that members of this group were commenting how odd it is that so many newcomers missbehave, while being unaware that someone from inside the group is being drugging them.

Since no one would like to face a criminal process, I'd tell the hosts exactly what happend, that there are records of Rohypnol use in the hospital, that it is an illegal drug used to rape people, and that any missbehavior I may had was a consecuence of being drug. So, they have the chance to unban me and let me tell everyone else in that group what happend to us in their party, or I will have to suppose they're protecting themselves or they know and are protecting the abuser, so I'll press charges against the hosts and not the entire group. This is like a poker game, and the victims has nothing to loose by raising the bet. In the worst case they will keep banned and wont file any report, which doesn't differ from the current situation, but if the hosts were unaware of the Rohypnol, for sure they will unban the victims and help isolate the abuser. In any case, after telling your story within this group it is likely that a lot of people will stop meeting, and it is possible that for some members this could explain other similar previous situations and even find out they were victimized as well, eventually, increasing the chances to prosecute the abuser.

In the case the hosts keeps banning you, I'd report what happend to the police to make them aware of the Rohypnol use within this group. Evenif this isolated report were not enough to prosecute someone, it may be joined with other similar reports about the same people you're not aware of as to help such a prosecution.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by 2jersey

..rape has not been alleged in this case, and without an eye witness to a rape, prosecution is likely to be very difficult. The police will undoubtedly lean on alot of people and try to produce an eye witness to rape, if one exists. First course of action - get a search warrant and look for evidence of Rohypnol posession.

Everything you said prior to the above statement is very true. This is where an experienced investigator can help you. He (or she) will talk to everybody that was there. If ANY of them saw somebody having sex with your wife, they're more likely to say so than to risk a charge of "accessory after the fact." Most investigators will build their case by gathering information from people who are not at risk of criminal prosecution, such as other guests at the party. As I said, it's an art, and they know what they're doing. Have you ever noticed how many people are convicted of a crime with little or no physical evidence, other than their admission of guilt given during a police interrogation?

As the husband of one of our favorite swinging couples (and a police detective of a large, mid-Ohio city) once told me..."Our department no longer usees rubber hoses to get a confession, because we don't need rubber hoses to get a confession."

Hey, I'm not trying to hijack this thread, or convince you to do something you're not comfortable doing. Just tossing out what I know about this stuff...

[2jersey]

Originally Posted by sereneiders

Ok. So the victims don't want a lawsuit, nor the hosts wants one. Even if the lawsuit were unsuccessful, the entire process this group will have to pass trough would be enough to split it appart.

In the other hand, it's hard to believe the ENTIRE group but the victims were aware of the Rohypnol use. The more likely is that some other guest did it to take adventage of the victim without the rest of the group concern, or perhaps that the host did this sort of things with newcommers just to spice up the scene, but the later case is hard to believe: someone would have been reporting them before, and after several reports the police would be able to build a case against them.

Also, it's likely that the hosts were getting a complain about the way the victims behave during the party. If they didn't threw up later on, it's likely that they did in in the host place. Most of the people doesn't know about the Rohypnol effect as to be able to notice when someone is on Rohypnol, or just drunk or stoned with a recreational drug, moreover if the victims wasn't known boforehand as to tell their behavior was odd for them, thus it's likely that people blamed the victim because of a missbehavior inside the party. If the abuser is a regular member of this group, leading others to complain about the victims behavior with the hosts as to ensure them to be banned would be a way to protect his/her actions. It wouldn't surprise me that members of this group were commenting how odd it is that so many newcomers missbehave, while being unaware that someone from inside the group is being drugging them.

Since no one would like to face a criminal process, I'd tell the hosts exactly what happend, that there are records of Rohypnol use in the hospital, that it is an illegal drug used to rape people, and that any missbehavior I may had was a consecuence of being drug. So, they have the chance to unban me and let me tell everyone else in that group what happend to us in their party, or I will have to suppose they're protecting themselves or they know and are protecting the abuser, so I'll press charges against the hosts and not the entire group. This is like a poker game, and the victims has nothing to loose by raising the bet. In the worst case they will keep banned and wont file any report, which doesn't differ from the current situation, but if the hosts were unaware of the Rohypnol, for sure they will unban the victims and help isolate the abuser. In any case, after telling your story within this group it is likely that a lot of people will stop meeting, and it is possible that for some members this could explain other similar previous situations and even find out they were victimized as well, eventually, increasing the chances to prosecute the abuser.

In the case the hosts keeps banning you, I'd report what happend to the police to make them aware of the Rohypnol use within this group. Evenif this isolated report were not enough to prosecute someone, it may be joined with other similar reports about the same people you're not aware of as to help such a prosecution.

We think you have stumbled upon the reason why they were banned from the group. The Rohypnol probably caused heavy intoxication, and the victims may have been behaving badly prior to their passing out. Some/most of the partygoers probably thinks these people are total A-holes.

One point which is missing from this entire discussion (so far) is that Rohypnol is used (by certain people) as a recreational drug (i.e. it is often self-administered). The mere presence of this drug in one's blood/urine is not conclusive evidence that they are victims of a crime.

We (like everyone who has posted on this thread) believe in the validity of the the original poster's story - and we would like to see them contact the police. But the police and the courts will have to view the situation in an objective manner. This is not an open-and-shut case, and they are not facing an easy or painless process.

They have been drugged, humiliated and possibly sexually assaulted - and if they pursue legal action they face the possibility of being 'outed' as swingers and accused (by the defendants) of using an illegal drug to induce intoxication. They have not compiled any evidence which suggests that there was a sexual assault, and without eye witness testimony, they probably have little possibility of doing so.

We are still not sure what we would do if we were in their shoes - and we would not blame them if they chose to keep quiet (despite very valid concerns that others may fall victim to the same crime). If we knew a rape had been committed, and believed it could be proven, we would go to the police.

[LOL_OMG]

There's been some good advice given here and great discussions. I would like to hear from Fun4ds and see how they are doing, and what they are doing. You guys still there?

Mrs LOL

[2jersey]

Originally Posted by JnCC

Everything you said prior to the above statement is very true. This is where an experienced investigator can help you. He (or she) will talk to everybody that was there. If ANY of them saw somebody having sex with your wife, they're more likely to say so than to risk a charge of "accessory after the fact." Most investigators will build their case by gathering information from people who are not at risk of criminal prosecution, such as other guests at the party. As I said, it's an art, and they know what they're doing. Have you ever noticed how many people are convicted of a crime with little or no physical evidence, other than their admission of guilt given during a police interrogation?

As the husband of one of our favorite swinging couples (and a police detective of a large, mid-Ohio city) once told me..."Our department no longer usees rubber hoses to get a confession, because we don't need rubber hoses to get a confession."

Hey, I'm not trying to hijack this thread, or convince you to do something you're not comfortable doing. Just tossing out what I know about this stuff...

True. There will be plenty of aggressive interrogation, and the police may in fact uncover a credible witness to a crime. (A bonafide confession will be much harder to come by.) Even if someone witnessed sexual activity involving this couple, it will be difficult for them to conclude that it was nonconsentual.

Consider the Duke Lacrosse Team rape case. Thus far - no eye witnesses to a rape (other than the alleged victim), no damming DNA evidence and no confessions - yet the prosecution is proceeding (to the surprise and dismay of many, including us).

[TeamSoBe]

Originally Posted by JnCC

Most investigators will build their case by gathering information from people who are not at risk of criminal prosecution, such as other guests at the party.

Reality check: no prosecutor is going to proceed with a rape charge against a sex party attendee.

Within the swinging culture, we have societal rules that we agree on regarding what behavior is appropriate or not. From the outside looking in, it was a sex party where the guests consented to having sex with strangers and there was voluntary drug use. That's how the cops will see it, that's how the DA will see it, that's how the media will see it. There was also no rape kit, no toxicology tests, no witnesses.