What do single MEN have to offer?

What, if anything other than a third participant, do single MEN offer or bring to swinging that enhances or furthers swinging in general?

 

And I mean overall...not those few that a couple find enhancing and a 'good guy'.

 

I have always had, and continue to, have doubts as to their intentions and stated reasons for participating, those reasons being a parroting back of what couples say swinging is for them and what they achieve from it.

 

What does a single MAN achieve?

 

And the first single MAN that posts anything akin to 'the camaraderie, able to talk with open-minded people, the friendships, I love sex and want to explore' while failing to acknowledge their non swinging dating and hopes of meeting a longterm partner through this venue....gets a smack on the nose with a rolled up newspaper for trying to hump my leg:)

 

We've had our share of single men who are really looking for their next marriage, who come between a couple because the single guy takes it 2 steps too far beyond the sexual activity, a few single men starting a 'swingles' moniker in an attempt to gain access to swinger couples while hiding their true personal lives but getting into others. I haven't seen much different from couples that won't respect boundaries and limits and pushing those later on, than the single men who say all the 'right' things and then trying to get more involved than they were invited to.

 

My personal opinion is that single men can have a place in swinging and far too often and too many push those limits, which tells me they aren't respectful, honest or open as people need to be to participate successfully.

 

I think they participate because they have such a void in their lives that they generally are not ready, willing or able to fill and they deflect and justify bad behavior, just as troublesome couples do, for the same reasons. And troubles manifest when they latch onto others who have a void as well they aren't willing to address either. Plus, as long as you keep the drama going, no need to address the core issues of that need to get into lives and a lifestyle you have no right to intrude upon because of your own deficiencies and responsibility to others.

 

Just my opinion, and thought I'd throw it out.

I really believe that I do not have a "void" in my life. Go ahead and hit me with a rolled up newspaper, but I started because I did want the friendships, fun, and great sex. That's not to say I don't have friends, fun or great sex aside from being with this couple I'm with now. The open-minded part(sexual wise) is another reason I wanted to become part of the swinging lifestyle. There's nothing boring about it....its always something different and that's why I'm enjoying it so far as a newbie!

 

I've tried to be careful of the limits set forth and have made sure that I have not or will not cross those. In the few times we have been together, the feeling on both sides has been great. Both sides have realized what the situation is all about and we're just adults having fun. Now, for all I know the they(being the couple) could have a void and they're looking to fill it with me....but in terms of myself...I believe I add a lot......I'm a great person....nice, understanding, and fun to be around...so I guess I just add another great person to the swinging arena. I like to think of myself as more than just the 3rd person.

 

Just my opinion

Do you define yourself as a swinger? and if you do, in what way are you participating in a swinging lifestyle?

 

In what ways are you more than the 3rd person?

 

You are nice, understanding, and fun to be around, and you have sex with this couple.

 

Part of my posing this question is that I see a LOT of single men saying they 'service' wives...or saying they have 'friendships' with the couples. Is either of these your situation?

yawanna, you can apply all these same questions to the single female, too, you know.

 

I think I understand what you are saying...and it strikes me that most single men (or those that pretend to be single) are, for the most part, looking for easy sex and for some reason, think they have fallen into a gold mind..."Just look at all these women here that are easy lays! I don't have to do nothing to get some! They're lined up waiting for - just me!!"

 

That sort of attitude. The key, tho', is most and it is generally rather easy, at least here, to sort them out. I don't know why it is true that single males flock to the lifestyle as they do, thinking they have so much to offer, but I suspect it has something to do with the sex drives of males vs. females...the fact that boys/men are conditioned to search for and expect sex around every corner, and the fact that boys/men think of sex every so many seconds....I read every 18 seconds once. (I think that changes with age.)

 

But if we continue to stereotype single men (as above), how are those attitudes and/or myths going to change? Why can't we accept that single men (and women) can enjoy the excitement and titillation of a "simply sexual" relationship? Being a part of a sexual encounter that pushes the limits just a little? The voyeurism aspects of being with a couple?

 

We readily accept couples comments that they get turned on watching each other with another partner? Is it such a stretch to believe a single person might derive stimulation from a similar situation? And the communication thing...yes, for singles involved with a couple, that is one of the prime benefits...having friends of both sexes that you can communicate with on an entirely different level.

 

Just thoughts...and I know better than to get into these discussions with you. - EBF

When I was with Lisa (not her real name) I was wondering what would a single man have to offer that the husband or boyfriend of another couple couldn't. More importantly, I had learned how get most women I was interested in to consider having sex with me, or at least talking about it. Even after we broke up when I joined the army, I never considered swinging. Those guys I saw at the one swing club I attended then seemed so...desperate and I didn't want to be considered one of them. They had no wife or girlfriend and no matter what they said or did, they were always the last ones anyone approached, even to dance. Well, look where I am now and what I am doing.

 

What do I have to offer? No more than any couple does. My body and my time. The only difference between me and a couple is that there is only one of me, and that seems to be the gist of this particular question, especially as it pertains to men.

 

There is nothing wrong with feeling single men, or singles in general, should not be involved in swinging. Its your opinion. Oddly enough it was mine as well until a couple in Georgia invited me to a house party after I said one too many things at a bar. It was then that I realized it wasn't about sharing your partner but sharing yourself. Okay, you can hit me with the rolled up paper now.

 

My reason for trying to get back into swinging is simple...I liked it in the past and even being matrimonially handicapped as I am, I would like to be involved in it again. Easy sex? Bullshit. Picking up single women for a one night stand that doesn't want to know my name is ten times easier than getting a couple to trust me enough to meet me for coffee or dinner. Any single guy who says its not IS incapable of dealing with women and ARE looking for an easy lay and don't know how to even pretend to be in a relationship. They are as easy to spot as the picture sellers who only want you to come to their websites and spend $19.95 a month for pictures that are never updated.

 

As for the void in my life, the only void I have is that there are only three or four people in real life that I can talk to honestly about my sexual past, and they all live on the other side of the country. Even bringing it up with guys I know around here causes nervous laughter and claims that I'm lying just to try and impress them.

 

Friends, especially in this lifestyle, IS just as important as the sex to single men. Its believing its not that drives all the real male single swingers away and leave the cheating males, picture collectors, and abusers to roam the personal ads and clubs looking for an "easy lay".

 

But thats just my opinion.

What makes me continue to want to be part of this lifestyle has very little to do with SEX. I can get sex easy enough without any of the hassles involved in swinging (there are plenty of single guys out there for that).

 

When I first went from half a married swinging couple to a single female I spent a lot of time debating whether or not this would be something I would want to do on my own as a single.

 

The answer yes and no. Yes, but not to the extent that I did as part of a couple (and in reality I couldn't do it to that extent if I wanted to).

 

The yes comes down to simply I enjoy the people in this lifestyle. I enjoy the openness amongst them, the freedom to flirt without expectations, to talk openly about sex and about your sexual histories, past experiences, interests, fantasies, etc without anyone looking at you like you are weird. Add to that that I'm bi and enjoy being that third to a couple (helping him satisfy her fantasy of being with a woman and helping her satisfy his fantasies of seeing her with another woman... as we all enjoy a mutually pleasurable evening).

 

The no comes from several things....

 

1. I don't like being the SBF that seems to be the one thing everyone wants and therefore having to say no to many who I may not want.

 

2. It was easier as a couple, easier to say no, easier to just relax and know that at the end of the night I had my one person that really mattered regardless of what else happened.

 

3. A large part of what I enjoyed about swinging when I was half of a couple was the enjoyment on his face in watching me with someone else. I got a rise out of that, it turned me on and made everything that much more enjoyable.

 

Those were the main things that forced me to consider whether or not swinging was something I would continue with on my own. The answer is yes but not to the same extent that I did as a couple.

 

So am I a swinger? And if yes, what makes me any different than the single men out there who are in my shoes?

Single women enhance and add to swinging because they are representative of how swinging is an opportunity for women to be sexual without being labelled something duragatory. They are also a minority in swinging and I don't think that's the only reason for their popularity. There are definite cultural influences coming into play here... as in expected behaviour of women and of men especially sexually. Single women can be an example of women's sexual emancipation, and isn't that a lot of what swinging is about?

 

Single men I see as enhancing one on one relationships for the duration of the play session and for the couple long after the man has left, but not swinging in general.

 

The motivations and participation of couples and of singles are very different and many times disparate. Generally speaking, couples participate in swinging is to enhance their own personal relationship (the good ones anyway).

 

Single men participate to ...... ? what? have sex? Speak freely about sex? anything else?

Quote

Originally posted by JustAskJulie

I can get sex easy enough without any of the hassles involved in swinging (there are plenty of single guys out there for that).

I have a feeling that a lot of guys will say that only applies to women. This may be one the reasons that there are so many single men interested vs single women.

 

Quote

I enjoy the openness amongst them, the freedom to flirt without expectations, to talk openly about sex and about your sexual histories, past experiences, interests, fantasies, etc without anyone looking at you like you are weird.

Very true. It's something that you don't find elsewhere.

 

Quote

A large part of what I enjoyed about swinging when I was half of a couple was the enjoyment on his face in watching me with someone else. I got a rise out of that, it turned me on and made everything that much more enjoyable.

I agree. I am pleased when I know that my partner has had an enjoyable evening, even if I didn't get to watch.

 

Quote

So am I a swinger? And if yes, what makes me any different than the single men out there who are in my shoes?

The only real difference is that a single male needs a ticket and a single woman gets a free pass. Other than that there is little difference as long as the man is truly interested in the lifestyle and not just looking to get laid.

Originally posted by N&G

I have a feeling that a lot of guys will say that only applies to women. This may be one the reasons that there are so many single men interested vs single women.

 

Truthfully, its not that difficult for single men to have sex. Why? There are plenty of single women who just want to have sex. The trick is to keep your eyes open and have enough confidence in yourself not sabotage the effort. I think one of the things that overwhelms people about single men on swinger sites and in clubs that admit them is not the number that are trying to get in the lifestyle but the number of transients who show up for a few months, write almost everyone (Including me), then disappear when they don't find what they are looking for.

Originally posted by yawanna

Single women enhance and add to swinging because they are representative of how swinging is an opportunity for women to be sexual without being labelled something duragatory. They are also a minority in swinging and I don't think that's the only reason for their popularity. There are definite cultural influences coming into play here... as in expected behaviour of women and of men especially sexually. Single women can be an example of women's sexual emancipation, and isn't that a lot of what swinging is about?

 

You have hit the nail on the head when you said the reasons men and women are seen differently has to do with cultural influences. Single men are rude and immature. Single women are looking for a good realationship. Yeah, right.

 

Expectations play a far greater role in how you respond to people than their actual behaviour. Even when they behave better than you expected, a person's natural tendancy is to be suspicious that they are being deceived before (or even if) they realize the person is being sincere.

 

Single men I see as enhancing one on one relationships for the duration of the play session and for the couple long after the man has left, but not swinging in general.

 

The motivations and participation of couples and of singles are very different and many times disparate. Generally speaking, couples participate in swinging is to enhance their own personal relationship (the good ones anyway).

 

Single men participate to ...... ? what? have sex? Speak freely about sex? anything else?

 

All of these above, and more. So, what about single women? What do they enhance? Why do they participate? Their own personal pleasure? Their self esteem? Their sense of adventure? I can say that what I originally planned to get out of swinging is a good memory and better understanding of other people. Just like anyone would in any other relationship, no matter how casual.

This was one of the first questions I planned to ask club owners. Acutally, my question was going to be "Why do you think single men want to swing?" Learning both sides of a story is a much better way of determining the true feelings of all people involved instead of automatically assuming their best or worst intentions. Any you know what happens when you assume?

 

Single women, and I'm speaking as one who has participated in swinging as a single woman, get to be in a sexually free environment, something not often available to us, for fear of being labelled badly.

 

Men, on the other hand, are high fived etc. for getting laid.

 

That's what swinging is about, imho...sexual freedom for women. The few men, aside from husbands, who are allowed in however occasionally, should kiss the ground these women walk on, and be more than respectful to the husbands who have managed to have a relationship with such an amazing woman.

 

Women do this because it's ONE out of NONE venues we can be sexual and respected.

Quote

Originally posted by yawanna

That's what swinging is about, imho...sexual freedom for women.

 

I always assumed it was about sexual freedom and enjoyment to ALL those involved. Be they single female, male or couple.

As so often seen here on the board there are as many definitions to swinging as there are posters. Single males are entitle to participate just as much as any other.

Ok. Once again, our take on the subject:

 

First we can't see where there is any difference in single males and single females other than the way that people stereotype what is acceptable and what is not. They are both there for the same reasons. Any female that says she isn't into swinging for sex, has got to be kidding! Friends without sex are pretty easy to come by.

 

As for the comment someone made about men trying to get in between a couple: We've never had an issue with a single male, but EVERY single female we've played with (and a few married females) have wanted more lovey dovey intimacy with the husband. In our experiences, The women are more likely to want an emotional attachment with their sex partners (unfortunately, for them, We are not polyamourous, and do not have an interest in sharing our love....just the sex.). Men, aren't as into the wanting or needing that attachment.....That is actually the only difference we've seen in the two. (and Yes, We are sluts. LOL!)

 

We just can't understand how one gender "swinging" alone is so much more socially acceptable than the other.

 

Are single men OR single women "swingers"? Maybe, maybe not. We're not sure that we'd even apply that label to ourselves as a couple. We're bisexuals, that enjoy sharing sexual experiences with bi men, bi women, and bi couples. We certainly couldn't be described as "swappers", since we always "share". We feel that single men add as much to the swinging experience as women. We look for the same qualities, regardless of gender.

Originally posted by yawanna

Single women, and I'm speaking as one who has participated in swinging as a single woman, get to be in a sexually free environment, something not often available to us, for fear of being labelled badly.

 

Men, on the other hand, are high fived etc. for getting laid.

 

That's what swinging is about, imho...sexual freedom for women. The few men, aside from husbands, who are allowed in however occasionally, should kiss the ground these women walk on, and be more than respectful to the husbands who have managed to have a relationship with such an amazing woman.

 

Women do this because it's ONE out of NONE venues we can be sexual and respected.

 

I took two very interesting courses in college outside the required psychology classes. One one Dimensions of Human Behaviour and the other, where I was the only straight man (and only one of 3 out of 35 students) was and 3 week seminar called Female Sexual Empowerment. From those two classes I came to a disturbing realization. The object of a society is to control its members by giving them common goals and responsibilities.

 

One of the things I came away with is that society controls men by controlling women, and society controls women by controlling how women view sex. That wouldn't work with men because men have nothing to lose by having sex. Its just a little more emotionally intense than wrestling if its done just for the sex and no emotional commitment is involved.

 

How does controlling women's attitudes about sex control men? By making judgements about a woman's sexual behaviour, you restrict not only what she does, but how often she does it and with whom she does it with. Being labeled "slut" or "whore" will diminish a woman's standing in the community, and a woman needs the community, at least indirectly, to raise children.

 

In order to satisfy her sexual needs she has to choose a man who can both satisfy those needs and not lower her standing that she inherited from her parents. Once this man has been chosen, she must ensure that he doesn't lose his standing in the community, so she gently nudges him to make the correct decisions that will not only maintain their standing but hopefully improve them. As a reward, he gets sex. Knowing he gets sex for doing the right thing changes his approach to life, and hopefully increases his chances for sex.

 

At least that was how it was before the Victorian era and the concept of wifely "Duties" and "Sexual Favors" of servants and mistresses. During the Victorian era sex was made something to be hidden, even among married couples, because having sex except to have a new child, was seen as a weakness, and women were discouraged from having sex except on special occasions or if their husbands did something extraordinary at work. Things just went downhill from there, with women losing more and more rights both at home and in the community until they became little more than property.

 

What does this have to do with swinging and singles? To me, everything. The idea of "sexual favors" is disgusting to me. A favor is something you do for someone who needs help, and it requires some form of payment. Why should you feel obligated to repay someone for something they should also be enjoying with you? With the sexual revolution of the late 60s to mid 70s, women gained more freedoms and opportunities, but more importantly, more men were less willing to accept the roles forced on them during the Victorian era in order to (surprise surprise) enjoy the freedom they have as a result of greater opportunities of women. Even in sex, it is not up to men to chase after women all the time. We can, when the opportunity presents itself, let women say "Hey, come here now" without feeling we've lost any power or we have to pay them anything except attention.

 

Even though I know it was an exaggeration, saying men should kiss the feet of women who swing with them is like saying "you are beneath my notice but I am going to be nice and give you a pat on the head if you kiss my ring as I go to have my other subjects worship me."

 

Seriously, though. Its all supposed to be fun. If you look for something to be wrong, you're either going to find something insignificant or you're going to create something major. I learned that in jujutsu class.

Thank you ES.. now.. can we clone you?

 

And windsorcouple, with all due respect to

 

I always assumed it was about sexual freedom and enjoyment to ALL those involved. Be they single female, male or couple.

 

This to me seems a definition of hedonism, not swinging. Hedonism..that the pursuit of physical enjoyment is preeminent...

no component or care for being responsible to others or their relationships is sorely lacking in hedonistic tendencies. I've had 'hedonists' tell me they don't care if the man is married and cheating, they don't have to face his wife in the morning, HE does.

 

Is that swinging?

Originally posted by yawanna

I've had 'hedonists' tell me they don't care if the man is married and cheating, they don't have to face his wife in the morning, HE does.

 

Is that swinging?

 

That's funny because we've met "swingers" that were biased against single males, and had a very limited view on what and who "swinging" should be for.

We've too met "hedonists", "swingers", and many more labels that think cheating is ok.....We tend to label them "morons", regardless of their personal label choice.

Maybe single people in the lifestyle are hedonists who participate with swingers, because, as a single person, we have no responsibility or liability to anyone?

 

Oops, was that too much like agreeing with yawanna? Can't have that.

As for the comment someone made about men trying to get in between a couple: We've never had an issue with a single male, but EVERY single female we've played with (and a few married females) have wanted more lovey dovey intimacy with the husband.

 

I hear ya...... it is my belief that the majority of single men and women are mostly on cruise control with swinging...UNTIL.... they see there is or they might be able to create a niche for themselves...be that leave your husband or wife for the single toy, or take her or him away emotionally from their spouse.

 

And even, just get in with the Mrs. or the Mr of the couple you played with so that you can get into onpremise or swinger 'couple only' events...aka...score a standing 'date' with a swinger woman. Much less fuss and muss since all the ground work was already laid for you (no pun intended).

 

We do know of about 5 singles, male and female, that function well in swinging circles and practice none of the destructive behaviour.

 

FIVE.

 

Thus, my consternation with this subject.

Originally posted by EternallySingle

Oops, was that too much like agreeing with yawanna? Can't have that.

 

Wow ES....we've been reading the forum for a couple of months....this is the first time we've seen you agree with anyone! LOL That's good though. It's one of the things we like about you. Our opinions tend to differ from the majority too. Keeps the board interesting.

 

 

OK....Back to the debate now, everyone! LOL!

 

We're going to a Bi (f & m omg!) party at a club tomorrow night....we'll ask all of the guys we sleep with if they are swingers or not!

That's funny because we've met "swingers" that were biased against single males, and had a very limited view on what and who "swinging" should be for.

 

Isn't that their choice?

 

Yes I am very guarded about singles, men and women, participating in swinging, and have been met with lots of objections about my thoughts on this.

 

I am a person who needs to know what the parameters are, even if those parameters are murky to me. At least there would be some common ground or a barometer for measurement of my being able to maintain my personal morality while participating.

 

We've all read the umpteen katrillion posts from people considering swinging, and all their fears. Many times people are told to try a 3rd before a couple. Well hell's bells...a third could be just as, if not more, problematic, than a couple.

 

Many posters say they had bad experiences and have moved beyond. I think it's very helpful to share what went wrong, what they did or changed in their participation that limited a repeat.

 

For us, it's more troublesome to find a single that won't become a problem than it is to meet couples who are compatible and won't become a problem.

This argument is so defensive and one sided it makes me a tad nauseous. I put forth it is not weather single men or single women are more entitled to swing. That is ridiculous. Everyone is entitled.

 

I would venture the question that should be addressed is- ?Why?…Why are the above stated positions so well established? Why are single men thought of as predatory parasites and single women as the bloody Holy Grail?

 

I cannot in good faith say it is because of all the single men that have gone before…yada …yada …yada… ( although the hit and run single males out there really do sour the barrel as do the prima-donna pillow queens.) (The preceding two examples fall into one category for me- “It’s all about me” people, and they can have themselves.)

 

I n general swingers are couples with a mean age of 40. So you’re dealing with a single element coming into an established union. I believe, single males are perceived as far more threatening to the marriage than single females (by the men). Men will automatically become more protective and more adversarial to a single male because of the perceived idea that –“he has nothing to loose and my mate to gain” . I find it amusing that they consider a bi-female “less” of an adversary. This in my opinion speaks to their ego and their moment in history. Wrong – women can be every bit as predatory and snake one of you away as a man can. We are soft…that doesn’t necessarily translate to trustworthy or safe.

yawanna...did someone in your past break up your relationship this way? I swear you sound like you have been a victim of adultry. Your opinion is too personal.

 

One thing I know for sure this is NOT something anyone should consider unless they have a very very strong relationship and have set ground rules for behavior for both their lovers and themselves.

The fact that she didn't take my comments, in direct conflict to hers, as a personal attack makes me think she's looking to clarify her boundaries. If not, I wouldn't have said anything.

 

Besides, I'd love to get both them in a Starbucks with about two gallons of double mocha cappocinos for a heated discussion.

 

Maybe not. Probably get banned from the chain worldwide.

Originally posted by yawanna

And windsorcouple, with all due respect to

 

 

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I always assumed it was about sexual freedom and enjoyment to ALL those involved. Be they single female, male or couple.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

This to me seems a definition of hedonism, not swinging. Hedonism..that the pursuit of physical enjoyment is preeminent...

no component or care for being responsible to others or their relationships is sorely lacking in hedonistic tendencies. I've had 'hedonists' tell me they don't care if the man is married and cheating, they don't have to face his wife in the morning, HE does.

 

Is that swinging?

 

How you get this from me saying everyone involved should enjoy themselves is "interesting". Nothing in that statement hinted in anyway at "hedonistic tendencies". I see nothing about not caring "if the man is married and cheating". You have formed an opinion on my statement and intentions from facts from thin air. How you can do that I don't know. Maybe I am not as jaded in my outlook.

 

It seems to me that it would be a pointless exercise if we didn't enjoy ourselves. Do you not enjoy yourselves?

 

Jesse

No Bodyscape..no one in my past broke up my relationship adulterously .

 

And..this isn't about my 'man' getting protective or some such.

 

This is from what I have observed, been dragged into, or become a party to in my 5 or so years in the swinging lifestyle. I think I've been exposed to more than most and perhaps this is why I have more questions.

 

And yes.. I am hoping to clarify boundaries as ES suggested. I am dead curious about things I become involved in, be it my work, children, families, pets, food, and on and on and on. I have been told by friends that I think too much but they don't seem to mind. It's always tempered with a kind heart, well, not always I DO have a level of tolerance that can be reached.

 

I was in chat tonight and found curious24 dead interesting. I want to hear more about what he has to say on singles swinging. I have only my own experiences to go on, and before I make a final decision on this, I posted this thread to get some input and other perspectives.

 

Maybe I should change my tag line to 'she who takes polls'........

Quote

Be they single female, male or couple.

 

I got it from this. If I misread your posting, then any clarification is more than welcome.

 

J'accuse tho...because you took my response of 'hedonism' and added in a 'jaded' and a tally ho of 'don't you enjoy yourselves'.

 

Originally posted by yawanna

I got it from this.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Be they single female, male or couple.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

How this lead you to the hedonist comment is beyond me but no big deal.

 

Jesse

I posted earlier that many times we see men posting about participating in swinging as a single male offering to a) help a man to service his wife, or b) to service a man's wife for him.

 

I wonder about the intent behind those choice of words, and how single men see themselves participating...are they offering a service to swinger couples? If they are offering a service, how does that make them a swinger?

 

Do swinger couples 'service' each other?

 

Do some single women participating in lifestyle feel they are offering a service, too?

 

In other choices of words used to describe themselves, single men have said they are participating in exploratory sexuality that crosses the boundaries of the norm, and they enjoy being with likeminded, freely sexual people. Well.. damn.. who wouldn't?

 

Perhaps this is extending the 'how much do we mentor and assist new couples'..... how much do we offer out to singles? Are we obligated? Is it all around beneficial for couples and the singles and the lifestyle?

 

And specifically.... since single women are so rare, and single men are so chomping at the bit, how best does the swinger community of couples deal with this influx of single men?

 

What is their role, what do they bring to the table? Specific events or ongoing benefits?

If I were single again I really don't think I would participate in swinging. My time is rather limited and it is always more of a hassle to get two people naked than it ever was getting one person naked. The triangle dynamic is always a mite strange with two males, there was never meant to be more than one rooster in the henhouse and for all our open thinking it really is a basic tenet that will always lurk in the back of our minds.

 

We do occasionally play with a single male, however he is exceptional for three points of knowledge. #1 he knows how to carry an intelligent conversation on a modicum of subjects, #2 he knows when to get naked and keep quiet. and #3 he knows when it is time to leave.

I always assumed it was about sexual freedom and enjoyment to ALL those involved. Be they single female, male or couple.

 

So everytime I had sex with a guy I was swinging? omg..all those years wasted calling myself a regular person instead of a swinger.....d'oh!

Originally posted by yawanna

What is their role, what do they bring to the table? Specific events or ongoing benefits?

An extra dick (DP is damn tough without an extra dick:lol:

 

What do any of us bring to the table? What do you bring to the table?

IMO what you seem to be doing is trying to define swinging. It seems the single men are not part of your definition. Maybe you can think about the implications of this last paragraph from one of Julie's posts.

 

Quote

I still consider myself a swinger even tho I'm not part of a couple anymore. However, when I'm just screwing a single guy I'm not swinging. Yet, when I'm enjoying playing with a couple we are all swinging.

So while I do feel that singles can be swingers, they aren't swinging unless a couple is involved.

How would a single man be any different then our esteemed leader. Other than the appendages.

Originally posted by yawanna

So everytime I had sex with a guy I was swinging? omg..all those years wasted calling myself a regular person instead of a swinger.....d'oh!

 

No, and you know that! These ridiculous interpretation of comments by others just to further your agenda are a waste of any further comment.

This is my agenda:

 

What, if anything other than a 3rd participant, do single MEN offer or bring to swinging that enhances or furthers swinging in general?

An extra dick (DP is damn tough without an extra dick What do any of us bring to the table? What do you bring to the table?

 

We bring two of us - this includes an extra dick and two people to share. yes I am attempting to define, for myself with the input of others (I like to gather information before making a final decision) swinging as it could or perhaps does apply to single participants.

 

Our Esteemed Leader qualified it quite nicely, that it's swinging only when she is with another couple.

 

Did no one else notice the moniker of 'swingle' a single guy used?

 

That's what got me more curious about the whole single MAN in a swinger COUPLES world. Single women who participate are so rare and I've yet to hear one of them identify as a swinger, yet, so many single men or cheating men think of themselves as swingers because they've had or hope to have sex with couples who are in this lifestyle.

 

Guilt by association? Is that all it takes? I think maybe they grab onto the mindset of sexual enjoyment and exploration and see couples participating in swinging and think hey! That's me!! (and quite frankly, every other guy on the planet) and decide that they are 'swingers'. If that's all it takes, then every sexually active single person is a swinger. Gays have multiple sex partners and orgies etc. Are they swingers? What sets swingers apart? What makes us swingers?

 

Maybe I should change my nickname to The Question Lady But I DO thank you all for your indulgence

Originally posted by yawanna

We bring two of us - this includes an extra dick and two people to share. yes I am attempting to define, for myself with the input of others (I like to gather information before making a final decision) swinging as it could or perhaps does apply to single participants.

I don't see that as a significant difference.

 

Maybe I should change my nickname to The Question Lady But I DO thank you all for your indulgence

I'm not sure you're really asking questions to be answered so much as stating your opinion as a question. Every reply you've gotten you've shot down and come back to your original premise implied by your "questions" that single men don't "bring anything to the table". So don't play with them.flamethrow

oh dear.. not at all.....

 

this is a discussion I hope, and yes this topic can invoke certain defensive knee jerk reactions from people. I'm not saying singles don't have a place, I'm asking what IS their place in the whole scheme of things.

Quote

Originally posted by yawanna:

I'm asking what IS their place in the whole scheme of things.

 

Isn't their place something that is defined by the people they interact with, the clubs that allow them to attend and their acceptance in the swinging community in general?

 

It wasn't until the late 1840's that the United States saw its first female doctor, or 1870 when the first black man was elected to the House of Representatives, and another 50 years later until a women MP was elected in Canada. Until till then, the thoughts of these groups being anything but housewives or slaves was utterly unheard of. In today's day and age, the thought of discriminating against anyone for their age, sex, race or marital status is equally abhorrent.

 

Times, they are a changing. And you either embrace the change and learn to deal with your new environment, or you simply surround yourself with like minded people and leave the rest to make their own choices, without fear of persecution because their choice may differ from yours. No one says you have to like change. Hell, I don't like that fact that the Liberals (Democrats for you U.S. folks) got into power in Ontario, but I accept it because the community has spoken via their votes. No mater how thick a marker I use to mark my ballot, I still only get one vote.

The place of singles in swinging is as an extra person, male or female, when all the couple wants IS one extra person to fulfill their particular fantasy. Everyone has different fantasies and one fantasy and a common one is the threesome. Where are you going to find that second man or woman? Are you going to ask a couple but say, "Oh, the husband/wife cannot participate at all this evening except to watch and maybe take pictures?" That works, but its not easy to deal with, especially if it happens often with a particular couple and the same person is chosen each time. Hence, the place of singles. With no one to leave out, you have the opportunity to live out those fantasies that include an odd number of people without excluding anyone. That is hard to do with a couple.

Here's some stuff I got from the 'net on singles participating in swinging:

 

http://www.sexwork.com/subcontents/singlemeninswing.html

Hi all. This is my 1st post on the board. This thread was such an interesting discussion that I felt I had to put my two cents in.

 

Though I have had the opportunity to get into the lifestyle as a "single male", I have refrained from doing so, as I didn't want to put myself into the perceived position of being a parasite. After studying this lifestyle as an outsider for quite a few years, I know how single males are looked upon..... and no, thank you. It boils down to this: If I make myself self known as a single male looking to get into the lifestyle, then I'm one of many parasites out there. I'm sorry, but I do somewhat resent that point of view although I can understand it. There are, after all, legitimate "parasites" out there.

 

I made a decision to wait things out, and find a partner that is like-minded in this area if at all possible. Well, it's possible. A longtime female friend of mine eventually became the love of my life, and we have discovered that we have a similar outlook on swinging, though neither one of us as done any more than dabble in it before. We both look forward to getting into the lifestyle, but want to proceed with caution, as we are both newbies.

The history of the word "swinging" is that it was previously called wife swapping but "wife swappers" needed an easier name to describe the activity. As "wife swapping" gained popularity and media attention in the 1950's, the activity was changed to "swinging" and more recently "The Lifestyle"

 

So by saying your a single swinger your saying you are a single wife swapper..which doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

Swinging has its roots from U.S. Air Force fighter pilots during World War II. These men were wealthy enough to move their wives close to base, and the fact that their fatality rate was the highest of any branch of service led to an unusual social milieu in which non-monogamy between these pilots' wives and other pilots became acceptable. These arrangements persisted near Air Force bases throughout World War II and into the Korean War.

 

By the time the Korean War ended, these groups had spread from the bases to the nearby suburbs. The media picked up on them in 1957 and promptly dubbed the phenomenon ``wife-swapping.''

 

Supposedly there were also "key clubs" where husbands reportedly tossed their house keys into a pile in the center of the room where they were drawn at random by the wives. The owner of a selected key was the sexual partner for the evening.

 

Swinging has always been about couples - Every national swing convention in the U.S., and as far as I know of in the world, is couples only. Today marriage is less important so non-married "couples" have been generally accepted but some swingers prefer only to participate with married couples.

 

There are zillions of very good reasons why couples prefer couples. There are some single men that participate especially since clubs often have certain nights open to single men which raises lots of money since single men want so badly to participate. Those are the nights most "swingers" avoid, except for a few that do enjoy single men.

 

Sadly very few single women ever participate so the problem is zillions of single men wannabe's and very little demand. Some single guys do fine but they are the exception in the lifestyle. Since many women are Bi there is also a demand for single Bi women to participate, but technically whether man or women a single, is really not a "swinger" they just are allowed to participate with "swingers" (couples previously known as "wife swappers").

This "history" may or may not be true. As you say though there are many couples who play with singles, male and female.

 

In any case, back to the original post so delicately put; Swingle WTF??

 

Seems like our single male friend may have hit on a good term to use for single who like to play with couples. Rather than deride him we should praise him. Now and forever all singles regardless of gender who want to play with couples must call themselves SWINGLES....

 

BTW, if the "good" single males are rare and single bi-females are also rare than they are equals.

 

yawanna, do you ever say what you think you bring to the table?

What do you call couples who like to have sex with single males or females? Are they swingers since they are a couple? Or not since they're not having sex with another couple? And what is the single in this case?

 

One of the underlying threads that my wife and I have noticed in all of the posts running down single men is that these men aren't "good" enough to get a woman of "their own" to play or swing with so they have to go out and "get" someone else's woman? And yet, single woman are assumed to just be exercising their choice to not be paired up and still enjoy their sexuality. A nasty form of sexual discrimination. ()()

 

Admittedly, some of the ads we've read from some single men are pretty clueless. But, you know the old joke, all they have to do is get one Yes.

And the first single MAN that posts anything akin to 'the comraderie, able to talk with openminded people, the friendships, I love sex and want to explore' while failing to acknowledge their non swinging dating and hopes of meeting a longterm partner through this venue....gets a smack on the nose with a rolled up newspaper for trying to hump my leg

So I see that now the ones whose ads appear to indicate some sensitivity are being put down as well. What's a poor sensitive guy to do??? Damned if he does and Damned if he don't. And why do you assume that he's hoping to meet a longterm partner?

With all due respect, I don't see the point of getting into pointing fingers, or making posts 'personal' in an attempt to discuss what is a fairly minor issue in the scheme of things.

 

Throughout these postings and the reading I've done, it's occurred to me that spending time and energy labelling or qualifying swinger participants, may be less important than my growing realization that since swinging has no one universally accepted definition, in this case pertaining to singles participating, perhaps there is no such thing as swinging or a swinger.

 

I'm off now to read my husband's thread 'Does swinging exist?'

 

 

P.S. we could use a sarcasm smilie....just so's folks don't get their knickers in a knot over something that was a joke.

A single male in swinging is just like someone coming to a pot luck without bringing a dish.

 

Yes they may be tolerated if there is enough food to go around, but they are not respecting the fact it is a pot luck dinner.

Originally posted by davephx

A single male in swinging is just like someone coming to a pot luck without bringing a dish.

What analogy would you use for a single female in swinging?

Originally posted by yawanna

P.S. we could use a sarcasm smilie....just so's folks don't get their knickers in a knot over something that was a joke.

Are you now saying all of your posts in this whole thread that you started were intended to be taken as sarcasm?

Originally posted by imsnowman

What analogy would you use for a single female in swinging?

 

She is helping the Host set up and clean up later.

 

Single women are welcome since they are so rare in swinging, many are bisexual and usually don't have the attitude and desperation for sex of SOME single males.

 

The rare single women are "tolerated" more as "participants" than the zillions of excess single men. But they are not "swingers" any more than a single man is a "swinger" based on historic, traditional and accepted definiation of swinging.

 

All swing conventions I know of in the U.S. and Canada are only open to swingers i.e. couples.