When Boundaries are broken....What's the fallout

Please understand we are not currently in the lifestyle and have never had any experiences as a couple. That said, my wife was into swinging before we met. I have always been very interested in the lifestyle and have learned a lot from forums like this (thanks) and feel I have some knowledge on the subject. Swinging comes up every now and then we talk about it openly and honestly but, I am still unsure of a few things.

A common and almost constant subject of discussion on these forums seems to be boundries. Which makes total sense to me. Having an honest and clear headed discussion with your partner of your feelings, likes/dislikes, concerns, rules, etc... is I feel the only way a loving and trusting relationship can survive. However, when you're on a playdate with another couple and alcohol is involved I can see how boundries can be broken. I'm not saying anyone would do this intentionally but, when you all have a buzz on and things are heating up I'm sure situations occur that breaches these boundries. What happens then? Could you please share your experiences good or bad with me? Thanks and looking forward to your input.

Our boundaries are few and far between now, but many years ago in our swinging life, I boo-boo'd one night.

We were meeting up with a couple one night for dinner. The other couple and us talked back and forth for a few days before the meeting.

So, we met, and instantly hit it off. It was a lot of fun. Well, the question comes up if we want to go back to their place. Of course, I'm all giddy and before I even had a chance to look at Dave, or discuss it with him, I'm screaming out, "YES!!!" in my head and before I know it, it's really coming out of my mouth. I can't believe I didn't discuss this with him, but just blurted out what I wanted! This was a little beyond what our boundaries were at that time.

We didn't even ride in the same car together to their house. I rode with him and Dave rode with her. Talking with Dave was impossible at this point. I'm starting to feel guilty about trumping him being so overzealous.

When we were on our way home, I apologized to Dave and felt like a complete idiot for doing that. He didn't care, but I did. I screwed up our boundary that we'd set.

Turns out, it was less than a fun time for all of us, but Dave had absolutely no problem with my feverish, horny attitude.

We really don't have boundaries anymore. I think we've done this long enough and know each other well enough that it's all good, no matter what we do. I do believe that's where our improved communication skills have come in handy. We're both pretty darn good talking and listening. Good or bad, we talk it out. Not to mention communication in our play life, that same communication has come in freakingly handy in our family life too.

I think there are a couple of key points.

First off, are the boundaries reasonable, have both parties agreed (not reluctantly) and easily adhered to? A rule like "no kissing" for example for us would be hard to abide by and for us doesn't make sense. I think that would be a rule we'd break quickly in the heat of the moment, alcohol or not. Does the boundary have a valid reason or is it negotiable? Condoms are a hard rule for us and despite the fact we both dislike them, we feel it's a necessary evil.

Second, how do you communicate your feelings after the fact? I realize that you don't yet have experience in swinging together, but how you talk to one another matters. Being able to share your feelings without being accusatory or defensive and in a loving manner is important.

EDITED to add experiences...

Sorry for not sharing our experiences with this issue earlier.

I broke the 'no condom" rule with one of our friends early on. In the heat of the moment I agreed to let him go without a condom. He was having trouble maintaining his erection and even though he knew of our rule, he asked and I agreed. My husband was hurt and his trust in me was broken. We talked about it, I heard him out and apologized and admitted I had screwed up royally. I didn't make excuses and he was more understanding than I deserved. I've never broken the rule since - to do so would be a pattern and a problem as cplnuswing mentions below.

We don't have a lot of rules and when we have an issue, it's been something we hadn't thought about or discussed. We had a party once and my husband spend an unusual amount of time with one of our single lady friends. It wasn't that he had sex with her, it was that they seemingly paired off together to the exclusion of others. We talked about it openly and matter-of-factly - there was no blame, just a need to understand and be understood. I posted about it here just to get feedback and get it all off my chest and out of my head once and for all.

We work things out and learn as we go and that's the beauty of this lifestyle. Those who have a strong relationship can withstand the bumps and bruises and come out better for the experience.

There have been a few minor boo-boos of the types you are asking about, one on each side actually. Our main rule is we are in this together, so we do things together. It's not a boundary of a no kissing rule type, but rather that we move in tandem. One may get involved in more than the other does, and that's perfectly ok, as long as we both are on the same page about it.

Her's was similar to the story LFM2 told, although it was a crowded club type environment. Basically, one of us just got ahead of the other. Not so much that I wasn't perfectly happy to get there too, but it kind of had me in the position of wanting to say "uhhhh, what was your name again?" as the playroom door was closing and clothes coming off, which isn't really our style. That's a bit of an exaggeration of course. It was really just a case of getting caught up in things and not taking at least a few brief moments for the two that had spent more time with each other to give the other two that hadn't had that opportunity to kind of all get on the same page. No big deal at all, and when it came up on the usual driving home debriefing we always have, she was like "I'm sorry, I thought you and her were getting to spend some time together too." I just rolled with it, no big deal at all. Me and the other lady were a little bit slower out of the starting blocks maybe, but the finish was strong and fun was had by all in the end

The other was along the same lines. I got way drunk, which is unusual, and when presented the opportunity, didn't just press the gas pedal, but floored it without looking to see what was in front or behind me. The equivalent would be you are doing your normal Saturday running errands, she goes into the store to pick something up, and when she comes out you're passing the time doing donuts in the parking lot instead of sitting quietly in the car like always Mad would be an overstatement, but she was perturbed that I failed to give her at least a little warning that I was about to go out of character. In the end it didn't work out, but it very likely would have had I handled it correctly, which is sort of a lesson in itself. We briefly talked (not argued, talked) about it at the time, and then in more detail on the way home. I apologized, lesson learned, everything was good.

There are mistakes, and then there are a pattern of mistakes. Mistakes are likely to happen, and you learn from them and move forward, which is what we have always been able to do. Keep making the same mistake over and over though, and then there is likely a problem.

Good question, thanks for posting!

Our first encounter was full swap with a couple we'd known a while. They seduced us. After that we discussed it and decided, mostly my wife's decision, that we would only do soft swap and no intercourse from then on.

The fifth couple we played with was the only one that we played with more than once. On the third or fourth date we were all four watching an adult movie in our house. We were paired with each other's spouses.

By the time the movie was half finished we were all fairly undressed and making out and petting heavily. My wife, and the other husband, got up and headed down the hall to our bedroom. Now we had no rule about playing apart but never had before. The other wife took it that the 'no intercourse' rule had been broken and wanted to have intercourse but I wasn't sure so we waited.

After about an hour my wife and the other husband came back smiling and my wife told me it was my turn to use the bedroom. At first I was confused and even a little bothered but then I looked at the other wife that I'd played with a lot, and wanted a lot, and simply took her back to the bedroom. I guess if the rule had really been my idea, and not my wife's, that I might have been upset. But, in honesty, I was tickled pink!

However, when you're on a playdate with another couple and alcohol is involved I can see how boundries can be broken. I'm not saying anyone would do this intentionally but,

In my opinion the best experiences are the ones that have no boundaries or rules. Go with the flow. If it feels good do it. It's a buzz killer to be interrupted by someone who is saying you can't do this or that is not allowed. I won't play with people who have "rules" or if I'm surprised by rules after things get started I'll be respectful. The only thing I won't allow is slapping, pinching or biting enough to cause serious pain for entertainment. Playful is o.k.. I'll admit that I felt uncomfortable the first time I watched them kissing passionately. She won't do anal with me but she has allowed other men anal if they suddenly surprise her before she has a chance to object because she didn't want to ruin the moment. She still won't let me penetrate her anally even though other men have.

As a cuckold who lets his wife play alone boundaries are a must. She has to text me the hotel and room number before going, she texts me when she gets there, and when she's done. Anything else is fair game. I do like to read her texts with guys every once in a while to ensure there's nothing going on but I trust her

I see two issues at play in this discussion. I'll address the alcohol use first. Yes, many prefer to get a little buzz before they play, but you should NEVER drink so much that you would do anything that you would not do sober. Know your limits and know your partner's limits and help each other stick to them. If you find that your partner is beyond their limit, you shouldn't play and vice versa. Same goes if you know you are beyond your limit... although admittedly, making that decision for yourself when you are the one that's had too much, can be just short of impossible. That's why it's so important to stick together.

That said, your limits should be set in a way that they are limits that you both completely agree to. If one of you is agreeing hesitantly, then that is the person who is most likely to push past that boundary or break that rule and use "I had too much to drink" as the excuse. And, yes, I really do believe it's just an excuse. If your limits are set so that you both completely agree with them, then you won't have an issue.

The more boundaries (or rules) that you have, the more likely someone is probably wishing one of them wasn't there, and therefore is likely to break the rule. Really look at your rules and ask if you need them, and why. The one I see most often that is likely to get broken is the "no kissing" rule. So often, I see that rule only being enforced for one partner, while the other has no problem kissing people. It can be really confusing and frustrating for the couples you play with when things like this happen, it leaves them wondering what your rules really are, and if you aren't willing to enforce them yourself, they certainly aren't.

So, what is the fallout? Well, that really depends on the couple and the situation. Hopefully, you will be able to talk about it the next day, and be honest about why the boundary was broken... and I don't mean blame it on the drinking. You really need to discuss why that rule was there, why one of you may wish it wasn't, and why the other one wants it to be. Or, perhaps it gets broken and in doing so you both realize that it didn't really need to be there anyway. Whatever happens, the fallout SHOULD be a LOT of HONEST COMMUNICATION and a reassessment of your rules.

On a personal note. I do drink when we play and I do get a good buzz, but I've never been so drunk that I was not coherent of my own decisions in a way that affected my swinging choices. I will say that once upon a time about a decade ago I got plastered to the point of blacking out. I have vague memories of what all I did that night (and it was a lot). We had pretty much no rules, so that wasn't an issue. I did wake up the next day asking where my panties were, to be told "oh you gave them to some guy at the bar after you blew that other guy in the bathroom." "oh ok." I still don't remember the panties... but I remembered dragging the guy into the bathroom.

She won't do anal with me but she has allowed other men anal if they suddenly surprise her before she has a chance to object because she didn't want to ruin the moment. She still won't let me penetrate her anally even though other men have.

OK this one had me scratching my head.

I don't believe it is possible (in general) to "surprise" someone with anal. They either have to be relaxed and receptive or there is prep work and lub required beforehand. And they have to hold still as the target is small. Even if there is chance penetration which has happened to me and my wife she simply drops forward or pulls forward and ends it.

I honestly don't think there is unwilling partners where anal is concerned.

If that is really a rule she needs to start communicating it better before these "surprises" happen. After all saying NO is the primary rule of swinging and she certainly seems to have no problem saying it to you.

With regard to the original question the solution is to be prepared to honestly discuss things that bothered you and the feelings you had. Whether alcohol is involved or not boundaries will get broken. They may even be boundaries that you didn't know you had till you saw what happened. Most of them are heat of the moment issues where someone got carried away. That's why people with the least rules or boundaries are successful they are not bothered by whatever happens and see no violations. Newbies generally with a lot of rules and preconceived notions are most likely to have boundary issues.

How about choosing to have boundaries, but also choosing not to have fallout. How about choosing to have boundaries and choosing to have learning instead of fallout. Seems like a much better outcome.

How about choosing to have boundaries, but also choosing not to have fallout. How about choosing to have boundaries and choosing to have learning instead of fallout. Seems like a much better outcome.

Lovely idea in theory but boundary violations usually generate some intense emotions and subsequent drama. It's hard for a lot of people to just step back at that moment.

We started out with a book full of rules and quickly decided to burn the book.

Some advice:

Keep the list short and easier to remember - I know, easier said than done. Look at it this way, if the list of don't is longer, then make the list about the do's and vice versa.

Make the rules clear, concise and something you both agree on.

Keep the list short if you can - but certainly easy to live with.

Expect that at some point and time a rule will be broken, particularly if you have many rules. Everybody makes mistakes, I'm not perfect and neither is my wife - so it doesn't make sense to hold either of us to that standard.

Finally, when a rules is broken keep your calm and discuss it rationally.

Lovely idea in theory but boundary violations usually generate some intense emotions and subsequent drama. It's hard for a lot of people to just step back at that moment.

I disagree. Control is an illusion for many things in our life, but one of the few things we do have a great deal of control over is how we react to others. While I may not be able to prevent someone or something from angering me, I can keep myself from exploding and lashing out. To do that you may need to count to 10 or go for a walk, but in the end how you emotions manifest is up to you.