Body language

I work part time in an off premise swingers club. So this may give me a small insight into this. We have certain rules that singles must adhere to. The main rule is that all singles (females included) must remain at the bar unless invited to a table/dance/play pool.

That being that. I see the singles body language alot. Crossed arms, slumping in chairs and the worst of all...poorly dressed. Just by showing up is no a guarantee of a "sure" thing as most first timers seem to figure out. (Not a sure thing for us a couples either!)

Take a look at yourself. Would you pick yourself up?

You have to also be able to join in a conversation when it presents itself. And be able to carry a conversation.

This also applies to alot of the couples that come out also.

We try to dress nicely each time we go out and we like the people we deal with to be like that too.

Didn't even get to the point of taking a shower before going out.

And I droll on..... You only get one shot at making an impression:sad:

Hey Ya'll. I think that your club has a great policy. Ya'll do a great job! We have always loved your club and everybody there. You do a tremendous job at making newcomers feel welcome!

You have given some great advice here.

Thanks for the kind comments. Come by and see us again, maybe we can get hot and bothered?

I always make a point of standing by the bar because if I wander from it I usually fall down. I appreciate your standards. One thing I always do, which I am sure you will appreciate, is carry a barf bag, because when I drink too much ya just never know.

I always carefully pick my shoes when I go to the salvation army store because sometimes the puke color doesn't match the mad dog 20/20 that I prefer. It is most undignified to puke md 20/20 when the shoes have cherry vodka stains.

COncerning the important issue of where I am stationed. I insist that the club manager chain me to the bar. Otherwise I am liable to wander off and urinate on the dance floor. I cannot express how gratified I am that they have a nice strong chain for me to use.

Sometimes they actually let me in the hot tub. I love the hot tub because after I am in it for about ten minutes and all the bugs go to my head I can dunk it and hold my breath for up to 5 seconds (before I need another cig), but when I come up the fleas are mostly swimming toward others.

As a single male people like you make me feel so welcome that I can go watch them make wild passionate love. My little secret is to jack off and scream "CMON GRANDMA COME". They love that.

I just don't understand why they charge me more to get in. I always have to mug a new couple to get the funds, but it is definately worth it because there is a chance that I may meet someone like you there.

HUGS.

John

Hey bro,

Are you going to share those drugs you're on?

Maybe I should have been more clear. Some of the singles who come in do this, not all of them.

Just like some of the couples who come in are kind of wearing what they believe to be comfortable but tacky clothing.

i.e. Wearing a tank top with flip flops and shorts.

Your choice of levity was interesting, but not very helpful.

Originally posted by BiloxiCouple

Maybe I should have been more clear. Some of the singles who come in do this, not all of them.

 

Just like some of the couples who come in are kind of wearing what they believe to be comfortable but tacky clothing.

You may have been better off posting your original post in the Swingers Club and Parties Forum. With that being said, I agree, body language says a lot as does making that first impression.

At the one club I attended, singles were kept away from the common areas. Single men had to stay at the bar, single females at the tables at the other end of the bar.

This place was extremely brutal because single males weren't even able to mingle with single females, nor they with us. Don't ask me why, but that was how it was. Fortunately the men were able to shoot pool, which meant the six of us were usually off by ourselves spending $1.50 a game playing 8-ball. We had fun, but it didn't do anything to help us meet people. The single women had control of the juke box and remote for the television. Almost always there were a group of women watching something on HBO an hour or two after arriving and not being approached by couples. My fourth time there there were no other single men and only two single females. After two hours I was so bored I walked over to their table and asked if they wanted to go to Shenanigans. I was instantly thrown out, and they followed me(strange, but true). We ended up becoming friends and through them I learned of other clubs in the Puget Sound area that wasn't as restrictive and I actually had a chance to learn how to mingle with couples. Oh, I also spent over $500 dollars visiting that club, including the membership fee which was needed to get an invitation.

It is up to a club to create its own policy about singles, and its up to singles to decide if those rules are acceptable to them. The isolation bit serves its primary purpose well. It keeps singles from returning to the club. It also makes it difficult to meet singles, however, because nobody likes to be sent to the corner, which will result in the slouching, excessive drinking, scowls, and not caring about appearance that you mentioned.

For single guys and gals who live in an area where the clubs are like that, I suggest that you try to mingle with each other (as much as the club will allow) and try to form a rapport with each other so that, after a few months of getting to know each other, you can go to the club as a couple. Always look for a way to make the most of a bad situation.

I understand that club owners do this because of the action of a few singles who just don't know how to act. I understand that most club owners are couples and run their clubs for the benefit of couples. Those who allow singles do so because a portion of their primary members (couples) want singles. Usually females but occasionally males too.

The problem is how to screen out the ones who will cause trouble from the ones you would actually want to attend. When someone comes up with a foolproof way of doing that, I will write you and tell you about it. If you find the answer before me, send me an email.

Oh, and lighten up! Don't know about you, but getting heavily caffienated helps me tremendously.

(Cathy) Interesting thread to read. We (Mike) and I haven't been to a club yet, but are interested in checking one out that is only 20 mins ride from where we live.

As our interest at this time lies in having a 3some with a female, at least we will know ahead of time that it will have to be us to initiate any contact with possible singles at the club.

Thanks!

The best body language a single in a swing club can have is to be talking to someone (preferably of the opposite sex) and appearing to have a good time. This, combined with looking like you are just there to hang out, will make couples (especially the husband if you are male or wife if you are female) more comfortable with making eye contact with you. If you are sitting at the bar drinking and wondering why you just spent $60.00 on membership fees,waited 6 months for an invitation, then spent $85.00 to get in the door (there is a club in Chicago that does this...just got a letter saying I've been moved back another three months because of extenuating circumstances), you won't be approached by anyone because you are in a bad mood.

My advice to other singles is if you don't have an open minded sexually uninhibited friend of the opposite sex who will attend a club with you, find out EVERYTHING about the club before you even contact them. You have to be comfortable with the rules and restrictions (and there will be restrictions even for single females at clubs that only let couples and single females attend) set for you, or you will begin to feel resentment when you see everyone laughing and talking and having a good time, only to glance at you and turn away when you are slouched over the bar staring into you rum-and-coke while trying to start a conversation with the bartender who's giving you the "I'd do you just to stop you from sulking" look. Or worse, you are scanning the room expectantly, hoping someone won't think you are overly eager, which always leads to the sulking and drinking. It is not like the toga parties in college or the meat market downtown where you can give someone enough drinks and they will talk to you. Couples DON'T NEED ANYONE to have sex with them. They already have someone.

But we already knew that, right? Good.

Class dismissed.

Originally posted by OhioCouple

BiloxiCouple, when posting in the Singles forum, one must be sure to use words like "Quite a few", "Most, but not all", "Couples as well as singles", "Females and Males alike", otherwise the tenderfoots get a "nilly in their willy".

 

I believe any group of people would prefer to not be stereotyped without some disclaimer. For instance..the statement like "black people are uneducated", "fat people are unnatractive", "females are vindicative", "blondes are dumb", "republicans are selfish rich bastards", "guys are assholes", would all generate such "nilly in their willy" responses and maybe righfully so huh? This is not a single guy issue, but a human issue on a board that includes a cross section of many people. It is intentionally provocative (not a good provocative), to lump all of any of these groups into one category. An attempt to just plain shut them up.

Every guy on this board was or is single, and many that are not will be someday. Single men don't want to be categorized negatively any more than any other group of people would like to be. Many of us stand up for our rights, but you would choose to define us as tenderfoots, that get a nilly in their willy. If it were any other group of people methinks you would shout from the highest mountain to defend them.

Your remark was in direct response to my reaction to statements YOU made about single guys, not anyone else. There is no one on this board that has taken it upon themselves to express such distaste toward sinlge male swingers. I saw no reason for the sarcastic response insinuating that guys that defend themselves for being insulted are wimpish, but if everytime someone suggests single guys have problems you choose to blast there defensive posture you are not condoning a good atmosphere on this board, but there is nothing unusual about that after all. Every chance you get you blast someone for something anyhow. Except for the continous flamers you more than anyone attempt to keep animosity in the air, even when it is unprovoked, and I for one am sick of it.

It isn't personal. You have chased a good number of people off this board with your biting remarks. Good single guys, good single gals and good couples. I know this because they keep in touch with me personally. If they are not off the board they absolutely will not dare disagree with you because you take no prisoners,..it is FIRE, AIM, READY.

Yeah some single guys are assholes, pervs, and just plain jerks, however if a moderator slams them as a category (admitting that there may be FEW exceptions), even so very unsuccessfully camaflouged, you will only hear from the flaming jerks, cuz they have thick skins and enjoy to get you riled.

Now its time to play "the oh you overeacted" routine, but ya know what? You did.

John, who has no nilly in his willy.

My head is tilted to one side, stink eye is almost at a lethal level, my arms are folded, and most likely I am biting my bottom lip...

Does this language say...."Wow, she is sick to death of the angryness around here"

Well that was hypothetical of course, but it could happen.

Originally posted by jen

My head is tilted to one side, stink eye is almost at a lethal level, my arms are folded, and most likely I am biting my bottom lip...

 

 

Does this language say...."Wow, she is sick to death of the angryness around here"

 

Well that was hypothetical of course, but it could happen.

 

 

Yeah i spose so, but its still a great visual. Just how far out is that bottom lip anyhow?

John

so funny

peace, please -- pretty please facelick

Originally posted by Roxysbayou

Hey Ya'll. I think that your club has a great policy. Ya'll do a great job! We have always loved your club and everybody there. You do a tremendous job at making newcomers feel welcome!

 

You have given some great advice here.

I just wanted to add that this may seem a little strict for the single men, but it is a very small club and when I attended the single guys seemed to be having a great time. Plenty of people were over there talking with them and dancing with them. They seemed like they were having a great time.

When I said that the people at the club go out of their way to make people feel welcome. I meant that they do it for everyone. They do a great job.

It may seem a bit one sided. But its not as bad as it may sound. And it does eliminate some of the bad guys.

I'm sure at the clubs you've been to the host went out of their way to introduce everyone and make everyone feel comfortable. My experience was different. I went to a larger club because the flyer I saw said "Open minded singles and couples welcome to visit". It was a large club (over 60 couples attended but only a few single males and females) and I was like "cool, won't have to deal with a lot of jerks." Well, the first thing I was told was where the bar was. Second was where the pool tables were. Third was don't leave the bar area. Forth was don't go over to the area with the single women. Fifth was don't go bother the couples. Then I was told to sit back, be patient, and if one of the married guys wanted an extra guy for his wife he would pick me out. Was told the single women were told almost the same thing but they were told for safety reasons not to approach the single guys because they wouldn't know who to trust.

Different area, different culture, different attitude. Thats all. In fact, I think the hostess came by once and said "If you guys don't smile and start laughing nobody is going to be interested." When asked why we couldn't mingle with the women she said she didn't want to discourage any couples looking for women.

I don't think the place is open anymore. Looked for the name Shirley's Playhouse and couldn't find it listed anywhere. Good riddance, in my opinion.

I've never been to an official club, but some have policies that don't allow singles on the dance floor, unless they're asked by someone else? You mean singles are only guaranteed to be able to use a small subset of the amenities (like the bar)? Even if they are made to feel welcome, I hope the singles are offered a serious discount on the price of admission.

Singles really don't need to subject themselves to a club that dissalows them to the dance space.

I wouldn't

John

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN

Singles really don't need to subject themselves to a club that dissalows them to the dance space.

 

I wouldn't

John, did you feel this way about singles when you were a couple? Or have you just come to see the differential treatment since you became single?

Originally posted by BiloxiCouple

The main rule is that all singles (females included) must remain at the bar

 

------That is a rule I could live with. I would not complain here.

 

Take a look at yourself. Would you pick yourself up?

 

------Hell yes I would! (As my wife shakes her head to this answer)

 

Not too sure how to work the bold non/bold type when quoting. I'll get it sooner or later.

Originally posted by Roxysbayou

John, did you feel this way about singles when you were a couple? Or have you just come to see the differential treatment since you became single?

I had three relationships in which swinging was involved. Two long term. With all three, single men were probably the biggest part of our enjoyment. So, my position hasn't changed.

I haven't actually been to a club as a single guy in many years though. Probably because after my last relationship i moved 1500 miles away from my favorite club though. They allowed limited singles and almost always the problem makers were not them but, either a jealous hubby, or a drunk wife anyhow.

John

Originally posted by Roxysbayou

John, did you feel this way about singles when you were a couple? Or have you just come to see the differential treatment since you became single?

If you have any real question on that, just do a search back through his posts. He's been posting here and has been a mod in this forum for me since long before he became single again.

I asked him to mod this forum because of his experience on both sides of the fence. While he may have been half a couple at the time, the opinions he expressed were the same as they are now. And even if he'd been single I still would have asked him to mod this forum. And believe me, I know there are days when he regrets every saying yes to me.

I almost have to comment so I will; john makes a valid point about the rules of this club. Would you like it if you were to walk in to an ethnic club and because the color of your skin was not the same they made you sit in a corner until one of the other people invited you to sit with them? I’m with john screw that club sounds like a bunch of zealots.

Why not just make the club for couples only and get over with it.

Oh ya I hope they don’t have to wear name tags, that would do it for me!

Julie,

I have no regrets.

The lifestyle has given me much more than I could ever give back to it. My good memories of swinging with my partners will go with me to my grave and that is something I hope to never lose. The friendships I have made on this board are some that I know I will have well into old age.

You are one young lady. If all I ever do is allow any person, single, or married enjoy the lifestyle more than they would have without me then I may have given back a little.

The lifestyle to me represents a mindset. It is spiritual and something that I think represents the very essence of enjoying not only ones sexuality, but ones openess to the world around them.

Swingers that are true swingers, be they single or attached, represent all that is good about something deeper than sexuality. They represent something about trust. They represent something about honesty. They are taking a walk on the wild side and not feeling guilty about it. They wouldnt hurt a fly.

No, I have no regrets and appreciate the people that make it happen.

John

Originally posted by alabamafuntonig

Why not just make the club for couples only and get over with it.

 

Bama,

I think I understand your point, and certainly if people want to operate their club as a "couples only" club, they have that perogative. But better yet, why not put people through the interview process, couples and singles alike, establish the expectations, and provide the rules with the understanding that the moment those rules are broken, they are out the door - never to return again.

I'm much like John in regard to these types of clubs. Under no circumstances would I attend any event in which I was ostracized and made to feel like a social outcast for any reason, and particularly because of my gender. On the same hand, I would not attend any club in which others, singles and couples, were permitted to make me or others feel uncomfortable with their boorish behavior. I would fully expect managment interventions.

Much of peoples behavior and attitude in social settings has to do with expectations and if the expectations are set high, most will conform.

Based upon your premise, should we have schools, restaurants, work environments, housing subdivisions and a multitude of other things completely segregated towards gender, marital status, race, nationality, etc.?

If I go to a rowdy, boot-stompin', shit-kickin'. beer drinkin' country-western bar on Friday night, I will likely act like a cowgirl. If I go to the Mansion on Saturday night, I will likely act like a lady.

For most members of the human race, it is all in the expectation. - EBF

If anyone actually does go back and reads my old posts they will find that I was engaged at one point to a very beautiful black woman. This was my first relationship after my wife died and she really filled the void and distracted me for a year or so. SHe was way too young for me though and eventually that led to our parting of ways.

The point of this is that we went to a NAACP meeting in indianapolis once. SHe was very involved there. There was a club in Indiana that I think probably still exists. For the life of me I cannot remember the name...

It was an upscale club and they had one hell of a screening process. ONe of the questions was one of race. They allowed no blacks. Can you imagine the hurt my lady friend felt when I had to inform her of this?

IT was club le....something......Im sure someone else on here is familiar with it.

Now, is it wrong? Rude? DIscriminatory? Yea yeh and yeh. But of course it is legal. A private club may discriminate based on whatever they want to. They also had a "status" qualifier.

OH I Remember....Le PLace.....that was it.

Anyhow, being banned from a club I wouldn't want to attend meant nothing to me, but the look of pain on my darlins face was something I will never forget.

John

My exgirlfriend and I had several good mail messages from them...until they talked to me on the phone. The hostess asked if I was black, then said some of the members expressed being uncomfortable around certain minorities, since it was an upscale club. My girlfriend and several of her coworkers cancelled their membership there.

But you are right. It is a private club and they can set whatever rules for membership they want. Thats life.

Originally posted by JustAskJulie

If you have any real question on that, just do a search back through his posts. He's been posting here and has been a mod in this forum for me since long before he became single again.

Maybe I am reading this the wrong way, but I just want to say that I meant no disrespect to John in my questions. I was just curious of his take on things because he has been on both sides of the fence.

Originally posted by Elusive BiFem

I'm much like John in regard to these types of clubs. Under no circumstances would I attend any event in which I was ostracized and made to feel like a social outcast for any reason, and particularly because of my gender. On the same hand, I would not attend any club in which others, singles and couples, were permitted to make me or others feel uncomfortable with their boorish behavior. I would fully expect managment interventions.

Interesting perspective. You have really made me rethink how I have been looking at things in the lifestyle.

If I go to a rowdy, boot-stompin', shit-kickin'. beer drinkin' country-western bar on Friday night, I will likely act like a cowgirl. If I go to the Mansion on Saturday night, I will likely act like a lady.

I agree totally.

Are there any swing clubs out there that have allowed free roam of singles and coulpes? If so have they experienced any of the problems that I hear others talkin about?

I have only attended off-premise clubs so I haven't experienced any of the guys that follow you around all night. I am just wondering if this has truely been tested.

what's a nilly?

J

Originally posted by Roxysbayou

Maybe I am reading this the wrong way, but I just want to say that I meant no disrespect to John in my questions. I was just curious of his take on things because he has been on both sides of the fence.

I don't think anyone, especially me took offense. It was a reasonable question and thats that.

As far as the fence goes. I don't mind being on either side but straddling that sucker can be painful.

John

Originally posted by EternallySingle

My exgirlfriend and I had several good mail messages from them...until they talked to me on the phone. The hostess asked if I was black, then said some of the members expressed being uncomfortable around certain minorities, since it was an upscale club. My girlfriend and several of her coworkers cancelled their membership there.

 

But you are right. It is a private club and they can set whatever rules for membership they want. Thats life.

This issue makes the single male issue seem like a pimple compared to a malignant tumor on the brain.

The words, "since it was an upscale club" really sear my sense of anger.

I personally think this is the most flagrant exhibition of contradictory behaviour I can imagine.

We are swingers. We live with the fact that people don't just plain think we are good people. To knock people because they have a cock and are single is one thing. That is just plain ignorance. But to knock people because of skin color when you are in a lifestyle that cuts across the grain of most folks anyhow goes way beyond the limits of acceptable human behaviour and proves that some people are just plain stupid.

If any subject in the lifestyle angers me it is the policy of this establishment. It demonstrates that not only will people discriminate against you because your wife died, but even worse you may be discriminated because you are black. Upscale? That is about as far down the scale as anyone could go.

John

Originally posted by alabamafuntonig

I almost have to comment so I will; john makes a valid point about the rules of this club. Would you like it if you were to walk in to an ethnic club and because the color of your skin was not the same they made you sit in a corner until one of the other people invited you to sit with them? I’m with john screw that club sounds like a bunch of zealots.

Why not just make the club for couples only and get over with it.

 

Oh ya I hope they don’t have to wear name tags, that would do it for me!

There is a club in Chicago that does make you wear name tags. One for couples interested in single males, one for couples not interested in single males, one for females interested in single males, one for females not interested in single males, and one for single males.$125 to get in, was on a waiting list for seven months. The place was crowded and unless someone had the right name tag you couldn't even start a casual conversation with them. I was, however, allowed full access to the club (it was off premises) and did end up joining the other four single guys at a strip bar near Midway, where I ran into a couple of flight attendants who knew my ex. That was when the real fun began.

It just seems for so many people into the “lifestyle” there is way to much discrimination towed singles even at the clubs. Sounds like a bunch of good ole boys got together and did not want anybody who would move in on there turf. A little childish and very sad. As swingers we belong to an alternative lifestyle if we don’t all act that way and stop discriminating against singles we will find our selves discriminated against.

Originally posted by Roxysbayou

Maybe I am reading this the wrong way, but I just want to say that I meant no disrespect to John in my questions. I was just curious of his take on things because he has been on both sides of the fence.

Not a problem. Goes back to how hard it is to read people when dealing only with text. My apologies.

Here are a couple of things to consider as far as guys on the dance floor is concerned.

My wife's freind love to go to (regular) dance clubs. Some guys here, not all and I repeat not all, are pretty sad charachters. My wife tells me of instances (more than once and not just with her) where she has turned down a guy whom asked her to dance. Some guys dont get the clue and try to persist. Others include guys coming from behind uninvited to hopefully get some positive feedback. Yeah right loser. Then one that I dont get are the guys that feel the need to show their arousal while dancing with one of these ladies. There have have been atleast 2 stories each time she has been out.

I understand that you guys are saying "I dont do that", which is fine and I believe you. But understand that there are some J - O's out there that ruin it for the good ones. Discrimaination to the single men aside, respect the women and their husbands. This will show a couple the good from the bad.

There is a reason why singles get slighted at swing clubs that allow singles

I hope that made sense.

Originally posted by ciscosv

 

There is a reason why singles get slighted at swing clubs that allow singles

 

I hope that made sense.

It did, there is also a reason why couples that exhibit bad behavoir get banned. I cannot count the number of couples that have caused problems in the hundreds of parties I have attended.

If a single guy gets married he is still the same person he was before. I hope that makes sense too.

If he loses his wife he is still the same person.

I hope that makes sense.

John

Originally posted by Roxysbayou

Are there any swing clubs out there that have allowed free roam of singles and coulpes? If so have they experienced any of the problems that I hear others talkin about?

This is my one and only experience with attending a club that allows singles. Perhaps it is different on other nights with a different crowd, but we weren't willing to give it a shot again. I have however been to a house party in which there were quite a few singles and experienced nothing like we did at the club. In fact quite the opposite and these guys were pretty doggone popular there. Also, I don't like the idea that singles of either gender should be restricted to a specific area. If they are allowed on premise, then they should have the same freedoms as couples do. The management just needs to do a better job (at least at the club we went to) of ousting the offensive, whether they are singles or couples.

Originally posted by OhioCouple

The management just needs to do a better job (at least at the club we went to) of ousting the offensive, whether they are singles or couples.

Precisely.

John

Biggest jerks I've met at any club were "single professional men", ie, lawyers, stock brokers, journalist, etc. They can afford to spend $500+ a month to watch other people have sex. Thats not even a quarter of what they make a week, so what have they lost? Cheaper than some of the dates they would go on and they might get a chance to meet a new client if something goes wrong at the club.

Thing is, they are the ones lazy club owners want, because they are the ones who attract single females, who attract couples. If you read a review about a club that boasts about its upscale single male members and discriminating couples and single females, and I guarantee most of the single males are lawyers, and rude ones at that.

But, then again, that was in the Chicago and Detroit areas. Don't know about too many other places (Oregon and Vancouver were nice), but that is what I've seen. Like I said. I don't do clubs for the same reasons some couples don't do single men...enough bad experiences not to try it again.

One thing that amazes me is that it is perfectly acceptable for a rich guy (not that I have anything against rich guys mind you), that obviously has a good looking female that is just a gold digger, be the hit of the party. He is judged by the appearance of his mate. Not by the fact that he is a dope with money.

Now, if he were found out to have brought in a hooker he would be maligned. What really is the difference?

Some of my best friends are lawyers, and I have swung with them on many occasions. Most lawyers are just guys that applied themselves to get where they are. The few assholes just like the few single assholes in the lifestyle tend to make them targets for stereotyping.

When you are a club and you see the total extrovert with lots of jewelry, a great looking chick hanging from his arm and an air of arrogance that is nauseating, you have the perfect example of what turns off everyday people from the lifestyle. I have always chosen down to earth clubs that don't make a big deal out of advertising "upscale" for this reason. One of the first clues is that he can't take ten minutes to tell you where he travelled last week and what type of car he drives......he knows everything about every subject and won't even acknowledge your presence unless you have a gal that looks like his gal. He also demands that the place be perfect. The volunteers that help are his servants.

You see, its not single guys that are jerks...its just guys in general that sometimes are. So many females encourage it that they are here to stay too.

John

Thanks to Eternally Sgl for what sounds to be good advice and education from a man who's been there/done this.

anthony

(Cathy)

------------------------------

(Quote) EternallySingle:

My exgirlfriend and I had several good mail messages from them...until they talked to me on the phone. The hostess asked if I was black, then said some of the members expressed being uncomfortable around certain minorities, since it was an upscale club.

------------------------------

It bothers me no end when in today's society there is still such a thing as labeling someone a "minority". It really bites my ass. This great nation of ours is full of diverse cultures and people of different ethnic backgrounds. Why is this still a stigma?

My children have a split ethnic background. I am the child of Canadian parents. My childrens father is Vietnamese. They are beautiful young men. When I look at them I see a beautiful mix of

2 cultures and ethnic backgrounds. I do not think of them as a minority because they are not fully white american males. My involvement with the father of my children caused such a rift in my family due to their bigotry. Their loss I say, my children have very little contact with my family because of this, but I am glad that their father's family do not feel this way.

Whether you are asian, black, hispanic or of another ethnic background we are all people. The diversity of everyone's ethnic backgrounds is what makes America an interesting place to live.

After all even those people who call themselves white Americans their ancestors came here from another country.

I'm not certain how we went from body language to race, but...

Let me throw this out there for discussion:

When we speak of racial divides, are we sometimes really speaking of cultural differences? For myself, I think that holds true, and I believe many of us have difficulty understanding and accepting anything different from ourselves and what we define as comfortable. That holds true in so many aspects. I can't stand the snow, ice, cold of the North. Others can't stand the heat, humidity, sun of the South. Up North, they think peas and speckled butter beans are pig feed. Give me a plate of purple hulls and speckled butter beans and I'll show you what a real pig is really like.

Many Orientals thrive on seaweed. I thrive on turnip greens. And really? Is there any big difference? That has nothing to do with race, but more the culture in which we grew up and became familiar and accustomed to.

Personally, I don't want to do away with the various cultures of the different races and nationalities and those from different regions of the US. If we all blended into one that would be incredibly boring. Like clones. However, I do want to become more knowledgeable, understanding, and accepting of our cultural differences and backgrounds, and I expect the same from others. And really, how can we truly accept and embrace each other as people until we have accepted our cultural differences for the positives they bring into our lives. -EBF

Originally posted by Elusive BiFem

I'm not certain how we went from body language to race, but...

 

Let me throw this out there for discussion:

 

When we speak of racial divides, are we sometimes really speaking of cultural differences? For myself, I think that holds true, and I believe many of us have difficulty understanding and accepting anything different from ourselves and what we define as comfortable. That holds true in so many aspects. I can't stand the snow, ice, cold of the North. Others can't stand the heat, humidity, sun of the South. Up North, they think peas and speckled butter beans are pig feed. Give me a plate of purple hulls and speckled butter beans and I'll show you what a real pig is really like.

 

Many Orientals thrive on seaweed. I thrive on turnip greens. And really? Is there any big difference? That has nothing to do with race, but more the culture in which we grew up and became familiar and accustomed to.

 

Personally, I don't want to do away with the various cultures of the different races and nationalities and those from different regions of the US. If we all blended into one that would be incredibly boring. Like clones. However, I do want to become more knowledgeable, understanding, and accepting of our cultural differences and backgrounds, and I expect the same from others. And really, how can we truly accept and embrace each other as people until we have accepted our cultural differences for the positives they bring into our lives. -EBF

Very interesting post.

It brings up some questions. The US is as you suggest is culturely diverse. What do you do when a particular culture is one that is considered to be immoral, illegal, rude or distasteful to other citizens that may be affected by certain cultural traits.

I.e. Someone is forced to share living space (in a college dormitory, military barracks, jail cell, or other reasons), with a person from a culture that doesn't believe in our westernly over hygeinic habits. They don't use deodorant. They don't take a daily shower or bath. They don't wash their clothes often enough. You find this to be intolerable.

Another example. You are in line at a grocery store and a group of people from a foreign country that is probably overcrowded push and shove there way in front of you. This is the only way they can survive in their home country and they think it is perfectly reasonable to fight for space.

Lets say that your neighbors like to eat cats. Many cultures have no problem with this and it is a delicacy. Yours comes up missing. You have no proof, but just know deep down they ate it.

Maybe you enjoy certain athletic events that require concentration like golf, and a group of people that are new to the sport but culturally they are very competitive, loud and annoying. Do you say anything? Do you let them corrupt the sport and redesign it? Do you give up golfing?

Lets say you saved up your last penney to make a purchase and are misled but not robbed. Buyer beware is a common phrase, but certain cultures relish in getting the most they can for a product that is defective. Again it is a survival tactic that is part of the culture for hundreds or thousands of generations. Do you avoid shopping at these places, and are you wrong to advise others to not shop or do business with this particular variety of culture?

Lets say you own a business that caters to a particular race either by employment or customer service. Around here I notice that most KFC's are primarly black owned and 100% of the employees are black. What if your business involved sales to high income white people. These customers will leave your business if you were to hire a specific minority. Do you cater to your customers, or just give up your business to the one down the street that does. Is it ok for a co. to hire strictly minorities and not ok for a company to refuse to hire minorities?

Another issue that comes to mind. You say you would hate to see the cultures blend together into say one race. I have to agree with that however, the only way to avoid this would be to ban interacial dating. Eventually someone in each race is going to create a human that isn't totally in the same race, so inevitably at some point in the distant future there will indeed be no genetically pure races. Eventually someone from each family tree will integrate and this will indeed by the laws of numbers involve the melding of gene pools. Give it a few hundred generations and there is no way to avoid it short of genetic purifying by legal mandates.

Some of these questions are answered by a persons religious beliefs, some by morals, some by intuition, but there is no way every culture can agree on all of these issues. People within the same cultures disagree on many issues, let alone cultures that are by nature diametrically opposite.

I see a lot of contradictions, and am sure I contradict myself when I ponder cultural differences at times. Culture is a very complex issue and the root of both wonderful and catostrophic events. Culture is responsible for wonderful art, writings, music, cuisine, religions, style, and also hatred, bigotry, violence, misunderstandings and wars.

John

Gotta give you bunches of credit...you brought up some good points. And just to show you how good they are, I even copied and pasted to my desktop so I can go back and really "study" my responses. But I have some - responses that is - rolling around in the brain.

I'll catch you on this one later - EBF

Originally posted by Elusive BiFem

I'm not certain how we went from body language to race, but...

Well, we went from body language to race because John mentioned a club that didn't allow blacks and I had an experience with the same club.

We started talking about clubs because the thread started by talking about the body language of singles at clubs.

[QOUTE]Let me throw this out there for discussion:

When we speak of racial divides, are we sometimes really speaking of cultural differences?

Cultural differences and race are often used to say the same thing. For a long time the Scottish, Irish, and British were seen as a different races, so its not restricted to differences in appearance and does have more to do with culture.

Originally posted by EternallySingle

 

Cultural differences and race are often used to say the same thing. For a long time the Scottish, Irish, and British were seen as a different races, so its not restricted to differences in appearance and does have more to do with culture.

Or lack of it.

John