A better more emotionally accurate way of defining "Bi"

A lot of people really get worked up with fear they might be "bi" or labeled "Bi". Most of this grief and heartache is unnecessary, simply the result of it being poorly defined.

The standard definition of bisexual is anyone that has had sex with both genders or all genders but then it's tri-sexual try-sexual or whatever. But I digress.

I think for the sake of swingfolk, who are on the cutting edge of human sexuality in my opinion, the definition needs to be your sexual preference is completely based on the gender you could fall in love with not who you can have sex with. Most guys can have sex with anyone or anything without an emotional component.

Therefore if you have pleasured your share of men during parties or whatever but there is no way you are ever going to fall in love with another man I say you are not even Bi sexual. If you could have an emotional commitment to either gender then you are Bi-sexual and if you withhold your emotional self for those of the same gender you are homo-sexual.

Agree or disagree why?

I would base it on which genders you are sexually attracted to.

I am "bi-capable". I can do the bi thing: kiss another guy, bring him off, blow him, get blown, shag him, but I don't find it sexually exciting. I can get into it because in the situation, the 3-some, group sex whatever, is in itself hot enough. But I've never looked at a guy and though "mmm I'm gotta have you" in the same way I do when I see some women. Men just don't light my fire physically.

So although I can fuck and snog a guy, I don't think I am a real bisexual. I can play the game because it gives more options to play and makes certain situations easier.

Could I fall in love with a guy? I don't think so.

I think each person who is bi-sexual sees it differently.

Some people say they are bi-sexual and only mean this as it relates to sex and there are some who are bi-sexual that could have a committed relationship with either gender.

I have known I was attracted to both genders since I was a pre-teen. I have been in long term relationships with both men and women.

I don't worry about labels. If I did, I'd only be stressing myself out unnecessarily.

I've mentioned before that the great members on swingersboard can't agree on what actually qualifies as swinging, so I doubt that any other term being defined can be accomplished either.

I don't worry about labels. If I did, I'd only be stressing myself out unnecessarily.

There's your answer.

So let me get this straight.

If a guy likes to receive and give anal sex from men, swallows, and all that, but says he doesn't want a solo loving relationship with a man he is NOT bisexual?

Note the term is 'bisexual'.

The issue isn't the label the issue is the people trying to hide from it.

I don't think anyone here is trying to hide from anything. If we were trying to hide, we wouldn't be posting here. Unless, of course, we're in denial.

I think it's more of trying to understand.

A lot of us men have never been attracted to men but find it fun, exciting, and enjoyable to be this open and honest with a buddy.

And, a lot of the wives find it just as sexy to think their husband would play with a guy as husbands find their wives playing with another woman is sexy.

This thread is really for those of us who are considering, or trying to understand our feelings about, having sex with our own gender. I'd think this would be of little interest to anyone who would never try it or has never thought about it.

The whole idea of labeling is what needs to be rethought. Most of us have individual needs and tastes and being lumped into a label does a disservice to most people. Maybe I am being too idealistic.

Some people have a black and white vision of the world, and cannot grasp that there might be a sliding scale of sexuality.

To these people bisexual is a false identity. They think that if you have experiences with people of your own sex you are gay. "You suck cock? You're gay dude, better face it." To them bisexuals are gay but trapped in heterosexual couplings by convention and use swinging and bisexuality to get their fixes of their gayness.

All complete horseshit of course.

It's all just labels and semantics and my definition of bi isn't the same as yours. Which is the nexus of this thread.

I personally feel I'm 80% hetero 20% homo, but that 20 isn't strong enough for me to be physically attracted to men. It is strong enough for me to be open to physical encounters with men, in a group sex situation. I don't see myself ever spending time one-on-one with a man. (but I've learned in life to never say never).

The whole idea of labeling is what needs to be rethought. Most of us have individual needs and tastes and being lumped into a label does a disservice to most people. Maybe I am being too idealistic.

I'd love to get rid of labels in real life but when I'm looking for a partner in an ad or someone asks in a swing situation it is helpful to have a shorthand so that expectations are clearer (more quickly in wiring or online- obviously in person more communication can take place). So far, I can't figure out a shorthand that works for me...

I don't think it is the word , label or meaning of either that people struggle with.

I think it is being able to accept who you are and/or be comfortable with it or to even be open about it.

I never put thought into liking both genders it just makes sense to me. For me and who I am it is what it is. It is who I am. I don't define every aspect of myself or my life.

I think that is where people get stuck in their acceptance of themselves. In order to be who you really are, you have to accept yourself for who you are.

To me, I am who I am and I like what I like. If someone doesn't like it or has a problem with it, it doesn't make it my problem, it is theirs.

Just as I love to make people feel comfortable, or better yet orgasmic, I don't like seeing them uncomfortable by having a poorly understood concept cast a bad light on something that isn't bad. To me it's insane to think there is anything wrong with giving another person pleasure. I hate to see people struggle and beat themselves up because they have played or fantasize about playing with someone of the same sex. All I'm trying to do is keep a spirit of acceptance available to that large body of people that want to explore bi.

I wish i could eliminate negative feelings through a better understanding. I guess a lot of people feel the same way.

I'm the female and while it's 'in' to label myself 'bi', I am not very bi....getting to actually do things with other women taught me if there are no males around, I'm going to be bored and want it over with. If there are guys around, into playing with us and into watching...great...I'm into it too. I think I sense the males arousal and that is my turn-on.

So, I'm way more straight than bi but can participate in group fun doing things with women and enjoy it....

Just me with a woman? Not gonna light my fire....

My actual arousal is from the male(s)....

I think StewartP is a male who like me.

I think many males are like that and the label 'bi' is less acceptable for them to use and decreases play chances, where me saying I'm bi increases play chances....

If it didn't, I'd put I'm straight cuz I am more interested in playing with the opposite sex than the same sex.

@tribbles - agreed.

I'm sure there are a lot of folks who are actually 'situationally bi'. If the situation is right (mood, couple, partner, environment) they are open to giving and receiving the pleasure regardless of the gender of the other. However, it is not something they would look for in a stand-alone encounter. The same probably applies to 'situationally bdsm' - it's not their core kink, but if the situation is right, they'd be game.

I would highly expect, for social acceptance reasons, to find that situationally bi women often round to bi on profiles and situationally bi men likely round to straight.

Tribbles that's fantastic and right to the heart of the topic. By the standard definition that makes you bi just because you had sex with a woman. In the right setting it's fun but that's not your orientation at all so the label isn't accurate and you might find being labeled that off-putting to the point you may not even want to try it and that would be bad.

That is exactly the reason I made the statement in the first place for that reason. I think more people could enjoy the experience in a setting like that if they weren't prejudiced against it for reasons of ignorance (lack of specific knowledge or experience not stupidity) or misinformation.

Fundamentally it's really all moot anyway. We all get a pretty good feeling for the emotional state of the people we are with. I had to have had a seed thought in my mind that said it was OK to think about sex with a man and let it germinate for a while before I did it. I am very glad I did but it was when i was with a couple. I'm just trying to provide more seeds I guess.

You know, if you're out looking for a relationship with a partner and are looking at both genders for possibilities, then you're probably bisexual.

But if you have a relationship already and are looking for someone to enjoy sexual activities with other than your partner, and it doesn't matter what gender, then you're simply a swinger.

As you might know, my wife decided she didn't want to swing anymore. She would never feel comfortable with me being with another woman but doesn't mind if I have a buddy or two.

So, with that we're both comfortable!

And, StewartP, you've told us what Swinging and Soft Swinging is in French..., what is bisexual? And, is there a gender specific term for men?

It's the same word in french - bisexual, except it's pronounced BEE-sexual. People will say they are looking for a "femme bi" or "homme bi".

People might also describe themselves as bi-actif or bi passif (bi-active or bi-passive for women, damn French grammar!!)

Thanks Stewart, but I was hoping for a more interesting word! Hey, never satisfied, right? LOL!

Being my wife likes to play with women but not have a romantic relationship with one makes her straight then? Should we update our profile?

On a lighter note, if it is based on with whom you have sex, I have had a few dry spells where I would categorize myself as palmsexual...... or is that unisexual.

All I know is no matter how you categorize, when it's good, I sleep really good afterward, with a big smile on my face.

Now if you excuse me, I just came in my wife's mouth so we are going to make out for a bit before nodding off for the night.

Take care all.

Being my wife likes to play with women but not have a romantic relationship with one makes her straight then? Should we update our profile?

Profiles are a tiny bit of who we all are...even sexually. I'd say put whatever offers the chances for more play, whatever leaves more doors open!

Plenty of girls who really, really want to be with other women, might not call her bi (or me bi) unless we are willing to go 1 on 1 with just a woman. Or go to a ladies only party...no males allowed at all, all play girl/girl.

Don't let the label stop you and her from discussing what is the turn-on for her. She probably IS more straight than bi from some other peoples point of view. So what? This is about self awareness Chicup....oh and also maybe to let those with rigid ideas of labels, that others may be labeled one way but more flexible than you want or less flexible than you want, in a play partner. (I'm less flexible bi than others labeled bi-hey, I've seen profiles that say 'bi above the waist! Is that bi or not? At least it lets folks know to talk about boundaries).

It took me doing things with other women, over time, to realize if I end up left alone with another female, I want a guy to show up. Or I want to stop what we are doing and go looking for some fun where guys are.

Only your wife can figure out where she is and what she likes...and you two get to talk about it. Lucky guy!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit: Thanks everyone

Also, remember, a guy who puts bi in a profile, not only may chase away some partners but may get many bi single guys asking for JUST guy/guy play. And if that is not what the guy wants, it makes sense to avoid putting bi even though he may be open to some male touches in the right play situation.

Chicup, it seems calling your wife bi doesn't quite define her, and clearly not as well as you did in a sentence. That's the point of labels, they can't convey what communication can. Shorthand can shorten communication, as in labels, if they are rigidly defined rather than fleshed out in often succinct, yet far more descriptive sentences.

For us as a couple, limiting our geography of threesomes or foursomes to only opposite sexes pairing off limits our experience of life and sexuality. To find out what it feels like to my wife to have me cum in her mouth was an amazing and instructive experience. I found I liked feeling a cock cum in my mouth. It was far more than a simple sexual learning experience, it allowed me to know what it feels like when another sucks me, swallows me. It has a sexual power all its own, similar to going down on a woman in some respects, but also very different.

It helped blow away my concepts of what it would be like, and by example allowed me to let go of other concepts of what sexuality is and ought to be. That may be the most significant aspect of it: a profound learning experience.

I think the way most people view bisexuality makes it easiest when looking for partners online and viewing profiles.

If either of the two in a couple have no problem playing with the same sex, calling themselves bisexual is accurate to us.

If we were to play with a "straight" couple who couldn't love the same sex or have a relationship with the same sex but regularly played with the same sex, we'd feel as though we were led to misbelieve they were completely heterosexual.

It's all about comfort and if a person is comfortable and enjoys playing with the same sex, I would say they are bisexual.

I think the original post in this thread is more for if you were looking for a relationship.

Chicup, it seems calling your wife bi doesn't quite define her, and clearly not as well as you did in a sentence. That's the point of labels, they can't convey what communication can. Shorthand can shorten communication, as in labels, if they are rigidly defined rather than fleshed out in often succinct, yet far more descriptive sentences.

Yes but on a profile, or in basic conversation explaining what a person is into. Saying bi makes a lot more sense then some long drawn on out I'm really straight but have sex with members of my own sex.

Again it's fear of being labeled that I see as the issue here, not the label.

If more bi men, men who like to have sex with men and women, would just be willing to put that on their profile instead of trying to hide it, there would be a lot less stigma and play issues for them.

Yes, Chicup, if this were a perfect world, it would be easier if all agreed what bi meant and there weren't negative reactions to male bisexuality. Unfortunately there are very negative reactions to the label bi. If you had experience with them you might understand why a person would not be stubborn enough to use the bi label in a profile especially when that person doesn't feel he is truly bi.

I have experience with negative reactions because I label myself bi on our profiles. They can be quite negative. Call yourself bi, if you are a male, in the wrong setting, and you can get beat up. That's the reality. In some venues, a male who is bi is looked down upon in a different manner than a male who is gay. That's because a gay guy wouldn't be interested in your woman.

We are both bi. We look at in terms of "relationship bi" or "bedroom bi". Outside of the bedroom we would never have a bi relationship. But in the bedroom being bi opens us up to experiences. For us being bi and playing with someone can go from great sex to OMG that was awesome sex. There is something about playing with no restrictions and not having someone say" You better keep that away from me. Don't want it anywhere near me". Mr. May says he is never attracted to another man just attracted to the fun to be had.

Since we swingers are generally looking for sex and not for love, I think it's sufficiently accurate to say you're bi if you're interested in sex with either gender.

Heck, if you're single and just looking for NSA sex with the opposite gender, are you no longer heterosexual?

Yes, Chicup, if this were a perfect world, it would be easier if all agreed what bi meant and there weren't negative reactions to male bisexuality.

Honest question here; if there are negative reactions to calling yourself bi, do you really think it's the label they are reacting to? If we all agreed on a better label for guys who like being with other guys while their wives are there, would it make a difference? I don't expect it would. Those negative reactions seem to come up due to the male/male interaction, not the label.

Also, if more couples/guys were like you and upfront/honest about their bisexuality then perhaps those negative reactions would slowly fade away.

Negative reactions to bi aren't about the label, aren't about differences in definition, aren't about the honesty of bi males. Reactions are born and live within the people who have them, are about what lies within those people's make up, and are in no way within the control of bi males. Negative reactions are reactionary people's negative, not bi males' negative.

All the honesty in the world by those of us who are considered bi can't change the within of those who have reactions. It is only the people with reactions themselves who can alter their own reactions. If we who are the butt of those reactions had the power to change them, they would have been changed long ago.

The object of the label attempt is to create a more comfortable environment for those who may fantasize about same-sex sex but so far have been hesitant because of the potential for a negative reaction. It's a shame for someone to not explore that side of themselves because of a fear of a label or reaction they may receive long after the exploration has taken place.

The more I listen to the various perspectives, all good points too I might add, the more I am realizing it will take more than the changing of the definition of a label it would take a social change. I think that is happening albeit slowly. Bottom line is I believe everyone should feel free to follow their fantasies, they know they are safe with me there.

I consider myself a bi-sexual because i am turned on by both sexes.

I personally feel I'm 80% hetero 20% homo, but that 20 isn't strong enough for me to be physically attracted to men. It is strong enough for me to be open to physical encounters with men, in a group sex situation. I don't see myself ever spending time one-on-one with a man. (but I've learned in life to never say never)

Yes, that. But, women, instead of men.

LoveYourCum said:

A lot of people really get worked up with fear they might be "bi" or labeled Bi'. Most of this grief and heartache is unnecessary simply the result of it being poorly defined.

 

The standard definition of bisexual is anyone that has had sex with both genders or all genders but then it's tri-sexual try-sexual or whatever. But I digress.

 

I think for the sake of swingfolk, who are on the cutting edge of human sexuality in my opinion, the definition needs to be your sexual preference is completely based on the gender you could fall in love with not who you can have sex with. Most guys can have sex with anyone or anything without an emotional component.

 

Therefore if you have pleasured your share of men during parties or whatever but there is no way you are ever going to fall in love with another man I say you are not even Bi sexual. If you could have an emotional commitment to either gender then you are Bi-sexual and if you withhold your emotional self for those of the same gender you are homo-sexual.

 

Agree or disagree why?

I think that says it pretty well. I'm certainly not attracted to guys, not in the least. never in my life have I ever had a dream about a guy. but I'm not opposed to some fun during the course of good times swinging.

There seems to be a big difference between the use of the label "bi" by those who have experienced some form of sex with the same gender and those who would never.

Those of us who have experienced sex with the same gender seem to care less about the label and more about the pleasure.

Those who would never have sex with the same gender seem to care a great deal about the bi label as one that doesn't apply to them but does apply to us.

Lascivious L&L said:

 

Those of us who have experienced sex with the same gender seem to care less about the label and more about the pleasure.

Being it's mostly bi men in swinging who don't want to label themselves bi men, I don't see a lot of caring less, I see a lot of deeply afraid to be labeled as bi.

The object of the label attempt is to create a more comfortable environment for those who may fantasize about same-sex sex but so far have been hesitant because of the potential for a negative reaction. It's a shame for someone to not explore that side of themselves because of a fear of a label or reaction they may receive long after the exploration has taken place.

 

The more I listen to the various perspectives, all good points too I might add, the more I am realizing it will take more than the changing of the definition of a label it would take a social change. I think that is happening albeit slowly. Bottom line is I believe everyone should feel free to follow their fantasies, they know they are safe with me there.

Well I think that is a lot of the point right there... "The object of the label attempt is to create a more comfortable environment for those who may fantasize about same-sex sex".

I don't think a lot of guys who do enjoy some fun during a swing event actually "fantasize" about other guys. certainly not sexual attractive to other guys. It's just fun at a time of a couple having a good time together.

Given the circumstances of the subject, I highly doubt there is any homophobia here. It seems "labels" are so defining and sometimes what we do for fun at any given time just can't be defined or included into a generally understood "label".

You know, this reminds me of a joke we had in the car business, years ago.

I've been selling cars for years but when I got down the street nobody yells out, "hey car salesman!"

But, suck one little penis and you're a cock-sucker for life!

And, have any of you wondered why a guy with no interest in any bisexual activity would even open this thread?

No, Chicup, it being your fixation on labeling people and giving shit to those who don't follow your master plan of labels with 100% Chicup accuracy. But your master plan is of interest to you only, not to those you try to stamp with labels.

No, Chicup, it being your fixation on labeling people and giving shit to those who don't follow your master plan of labels with 100% Chicup accuracy. But your master plan is of interest to you only, not to those you try to stamp with labels.

I'm sorry but you are completely wrong.

I like to hang out in SLS chat. Very common occurrence is a man looking to chat with another man for sexual purposes who's profile lists him as straight. What this thread is, is a plea to NOT be labeled bi, and the reason is obvious.

A lot of couples don't play with bi men and they don't want to lose out on that pussy.

There is another reason not to want to use the bi label. I'm okay with doing girls in the right group...but have no interest in just girl/girl play. Fortunately it's rare for girls to mail girls begging to meet 1 on 1 to get off. Not so for guys...

I know guys like me, in that in the right situation, they will do something with another guy. But if a guy puts bi in his profile, all the horny guys who want bj's mail asking to meet for quickie 'can I cum in your mouth?" meets. ick...better to put st8 and open minded or some key word in a profile where the bi/gay guys don't read. Or no key word if it's something you might do but don't look for.

Cuts down on crazy mail the guys who are more bi than the barely type bi guy.

Couples who flat out don't wanna do any guy who ever tried anything with another guy, can ask-should ask, in fact. Most people I've talked with, have at least tried it, often in college or high school...not necessarily in the LS.

tribbles said:

I know guys like me, in that in the right situation, they will do something with another guy. But if a guy puts bi in his profile, all the horny guys who want bj's mail asking to meet for quickie 'can I cum in your mouth?" meets. ick...better to put st8 and open minded or some key word in a profile where the bi/gay guys don't read. Or no key word if it's something you might do but don't look for.

 

Cuts down on crazy mail the guys who are more bi than the barely type bi guy.

I haven't considered this as a reason before. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing this angle.

tribbles said:

There is another reason not to want to use the bi label. I'm okay with doing girls in the right group...but have no interest in just girl/girl play. Fortunately it's rare for girls to mail girls begging to meet 1 on 1 to get off. Not so for guys...

 

I know guys like me, in that in the right situation, they will do something with another guy. But if a guy puts bi in his profile, all the horny guys who want bj's mail asking to meet for quickie 'can I cum in your mouth?" meets. ick...better to put st8 and open minded or some key word in a profile where the bi/gay guys don't read. Or no key word if it's something you might do but don't look for.

 

Cuts down on crazy mail the guys who are more bi than the barely type bi guy.

 

Couples who flat out don't wanna do any guy who ever tried anything with another guy, can ask-should ask, in fact. Most people I've talked with, have at least tried it, often in college or high school...not necessarily in the LS.

That's an interesting take and one I'd understand as a valid reason. Out of curiosity how many of these guys mailing you didn't list themselves as bi?

We listed him as bi at one point just for shits and giggles cuz of reading here that so many st8 guys are actually bi. See what reading Swingersboard can do?

And actually most who were annoying...wanting to meet just hubby to get blown, were listed as bi.

The surprise was how many couples had guys listed st8 who hit on us telling us the guy was bi. (Like folks here said would happen!)

But they were not the majority of the annoying guys at all...as always, it's the single guys who don't read and just send emails hoping to get some. Couples with a guy listed as st8 are always willing to play st8 with no male/male contact.

Which is why the people who want a guy who never touched another male, need to ask. Plenty of folks try it and find it's not their thing but not disgusting either.

Some might, like some of the girls do, allow themselves to be touched but not want to give back. How many threads have we seen on that about the wife willing to be eaten but not wanting to lick pussy back? Ask most the truly bifems if that is bi and the answer is "hell no" cuz she don't give back.

So if a couple is open to single guys and does not block them, it's impossible to deal with the really bi guys who just wanna get bj's from the married/attached guy.

Also why profiles should be short and sweet (IMHO) and actual questions work best once you contact someone or they contact you.

If you are super picky about something....put it in your profile. I've seen a few profiles where the couple states if another couple KNEW they played with a guy who was bi, even if they did not do male/male activities, they wanted no part of playing...cuz they see the STD risk that high maybe? Or the thought of male/male is that freaky to them?

Okay...we learned by making us both bi for a bit, that some of the guys we had played with HAVE done some form of male/male contact...so we ignore those folks who are that strict.

But if it's not in their profile and they just say they are st8, then heck, they are fair game in my mind.

I haven't read through all the comments in this thread (got a headache) so I apologize if someone else said this already. I am "sexual". No need for bi, tri, homo, hetero or any other prefix. It's all good! If we all respect each other, the prefix isn't that important. It's like races, we're all one race, human. We are all people deserving love and respect.

Be healthy, be fun!

Once again, Chicup, you got it wrong.

Wrong that the main reason those who don't list as bi but will engage in male/male play is that they are looking for pussy they wouldn't get if listed as bi. There are many reasons, as this thread shows in detail. One of the biggest reasons is reactions of people such as yourself.

Wrong too in your risk assessment. We've been over this before: risk is a function of actions a person engages in, not a label that gathers many of different risk levels. No label gathers more people of different risk levels than bi/gay, or males who have sex with males. The all important factor is what kind of sex do they have? Unprotected anal sex is the highest risk. Oral sex is very low risk.

A man performing oral sex on another man is the same risk level as a woman performing oral sex on a man. That risk level of HIV is low, comparable or less than sexual intercourse with a condom.

tribbles said:

If you are super picky about something....put it in your profile. I've seen a few profiles where the couple states if another couple KNEW they played with a guy who was bi, even if they did not do male/male activities, they wanted no part of playing...cuz they see the STD risk that high maybe? Or the thought of male/male is that freaky to them?

 

Okay...we learned by making us both bi for a bit, that some of the guys we had played with HAVE done some form of male/male contact...so we ignore those folks who are that strict.

 

But if it's not in their profile and they just say they are st8, then heck, they are fair game in my mind.

So basically unless I say in our profile "No bi guys, icky icky" in some fashion, to you it means I am "fair game"?

So because you don't want to label yourself as bi, I need to go to the other extreme and spell out exactly what is acceptable male interaction?

So my profile should read something like.....

"I won't freak out being naked in the same room as a man, and accidental contact won't make me cry in the corner, but active contact is right out, so if you are bi but saying straight on your profile, please be aware that I am not "fair game""

Your complaint about males who just want male contact is no different than those complaints by couples that want single males and complain about guys who just want to meet the wife alone or that sort of thing. So you basically misrepresent yourself to avoid annoying email.

Lascivious L&L said:

Once again, Chicup, you got it wrong.

 

Wrong that the main reason those who don't list as bi but will engage in male/male play is that they are looking for pussy they wouldn't get if listed as bi. There are many reasons, as this thread shows in detail. One of the biggest reasons is reactions of people such as yourself.

Well I beg to differ. Why would anyone who was bi care about my reaction to them being bi? I can't magically keep them from being bi, or magically keep them from having sex. What I can magically do is keep them from having sex with my wife. Abra-kadabra, no Mrs. Chicup pussy for you!

All I see is insecurity, denial, and playing the odds on the bi-guys part. I don't write their profiles, they do.

Quote

Wrong too in your risk assessment. We've been over this before: risk is a function of actions a person engages in, not a label that gathers many of different risk levels. No label gathers more people of different risk levels than bi/gay, or males who have sex with males. The all important factor is what kind of sex do they have? Unprotected anal sex is the highest risk. Oral sex is very low risk.

Yes very good, and so what? The bi-male STD rate is much higher than the straight STD rate. Being so many bi guys are too afraid to even put it in their profile, why we should trust them to be 'oral only' or to never seek male 1-1?

Quote

A man performing oral sex on another man is the same risk level as a woman performing oral sex on a man. That risk level of HIV is low, comparable or less than sexual intercourse with a condom.

We have had couples in the past here say their bi activities included anal sex. I'm not sure why we must assume this is oral only, that the guys involved never had 1-1 male sex etc. If it's only about the pleasure as you say, why should you avoid anal sex with a man, it's just about pleasure after all? Your own words make you untrustworthy to me, and swinging is too low a priority in our lives to take extra risk beyond the risk we already are.

So basically unless I say in our profile "No bi guys, icky icky" in some fashion, to you it means I am "fair game"?

No, worse from what I have seen and guys I've talked with....you can say 'no bi guys' and if the guy doesn't think he is bi, but has occasionally or ever done anything with a male, but you called him bi and he thinks he isn't....YOU ARE FAIR GAME.

You have to go the extra mile to say "If you EVER have had male/male contact, I do not want to play with you". If you are lucky, they won't give what they consider to be a white lie.

Your complaint about males who just want male contact is no different than those complaints by couples that want single males and complain about guys who just want to meet the wife alone or that sort of thing. So you basically misrepresent yourself to avoid annoying email.

Re-read what you think are white lies....others add other 'white lies'

If they (the couple) spell it out and also say it early in emails with the single guy....and they still get too much mail from single guys wanting to meet wifey alone....I totally understand when they say "NO SINGLE MEN" but really mean "WE will pick YOU, leave us the fuck alone"

bi-guys part

Again, to you is a guy bi if he has had oral sex with other guys in college? Within the last year? If he WANTS to have oral with a guy or if he could care less if it happens but would do it if the lady said "it turns me on to see guys sucking each other?

I dunno if you can 'get this' but what I see as your label of a bi guy is NOT how a lot of guys who will occasionally be willing to engage in male/male contact think of themselves.

That's the problem...you seem to want them to label themselves using your rules and they ain't gonna do it.

Ain't life just like that all over the place?

Kinda like HWP....I've seen couples put HWP when their weights are 'overweight' if you do BMI...so people who really want certain HWP partners really gotta ask or see on cam or in person, to be sure they are getting what they think of as HWP and not what others think HWP is.

Bi labels are no different....spell out what you think is bi and then avoid it. But others are not going to use your specifications of it.

Really bi ladies have similar problems.

As a bi lady I have no problems. I have no problems as I don't allow myself to get caught up in what others think. I really could careless . I have met women who are straight and they knew I am bi and we had a fmf with no female contact. To us it was about respecting the others boundaries not getting caught up in how someone else defines me. I know who I am and that is all that has ever mattered yo me. I put no emotions into defining my sexuality . If someone has a problem with who I am that is their problem and not mine to be concerned with as I am completely comfortable with who I am.

If you want female/female contact and the lady says she is bi but to her it means kissing only...is she bi?

Some will say she is not and she led you on. If she lets you go down but won't lick, is she bi or not bi?

Same issues with how each person views themselves....which is why I say being specific in talking first is key.

Oh and I wanted to ask Chicup....a guy who put bi curious, tried it, didn't like it, won't do it again and now puts st8....is he bi to you? Would his experimenting matter to you? He won't think he is bi due to what he did in the past that he won't do again.....but is he bi to you? Does he need to put that on his profile?

I've met quite a few guys like that.