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rose_bleu
02-13-2011, 08:01 AM
My husband and I have been together for 3 years, and married for 2 of those years. This entire time we've been monogamous. I've been in poly and open relationships before and decided that while there was nothing wrong with those lifestyles, they were not for me. I have never been in the swinging lifestyle (other than being the single female to a couple that have been friends of mine for years, way before I got together with my husband).

My husband brought up the concept of dating other people back at the beginning of December, and I was completely against it. After trying to tell me how my feelings and discomfort were irrational, he's then been suggesting swinging as a compromise "on both our parts", and that while he'd prefer to "date" other women, he could accept not doing so if he could just have sex with other women.

He's been going as far as suggesting the couple I've been with before in hopes I'd be more comfortable with the idea. I've told him time and time again I wouldn't be comfortable with it (at least for now), and that I feel he's trying to force me into it, to which he replies that he feels he's being "forced" into monogamy.

At first I was so afraid to lose him that I didn't say too much on it, but I've become more and more firm on my stance the more he's insisted. I've told him that I'm not "forcing" him to do anything, that he is just as free to date other women and have sex with them as I am free in leaving him if he does so. He keeps saying how that answer isn't fair, and that I "care more about monogamy than our relationship". He also says how he feels more and more restrained at the thought of not being able to have sex with other people.

Of course, the more he's insisted, the more uncomfortable I've been feeling with the entire situation.

Ironically I don't know whether or not I would have been more ok with swinging once I felt our relationship was stronger, but at this point I'm getting more uncomfortable with the concept as he keeps bringing it up and insisting on how unhappy he would be in not doing so.

I'm starting to feel as if our marriage is in limbo at this point. Any advice?

SW_PA_Couple
02-13-2011, 08:19 AM
I'm glad, rose bleu, that you have joined the discussions here at Swingersboard. Hope you find the information here to be useful.

Your husband's implication that he would put aside his plan of dating another woman if you would agree to accept "swinging" sounds (allow me to be blunt) like blackmail. And I want you to think on how unfair all of this would be to the people you might involve in a prospective two-on-two, three-way or four-way relationship if you had not worked out your own purposes ahead of time. I think you should resist this whole thing.

fun4Ds
02-13-2011, 08:22 AM
Welcome to the Swingers Board, rose_bleu. :)

Personally, anytime someone has the need to use the "Its not fair card" I doubt swinging would do very well for them. Good reply by the way, on your part ! But thats just my opinion....

If you could please complete your registration through the e-mail link provided by you. We could then open up this conversation in a more broader environment, than the introductions. But again, I do thank you for joining us. I think the more communication from other swingers the better, and might help you arrive to some better advice too....

fun ~

rose_bleu
02-13-2011, 08:27 AM
I already see your replies on my intro post, and want to say how I appreciate you guys getting back to me so fast. I'd be replying with more specifics and questions if I could at this point.

I've already done my email activation, but it says I'm still in the moderator queue for my account.

Thanks for the patience, and for the comments so far.

~RB

two4youinswva
02-13-2011, 08:33 AM
You can continue to reply this way until the administrator approves you. We will merge the posts into your original thread.

rose_bleu
02-13-2011, 08:49 AM
Thank you, two4you.

SW_PA_Couple: I would agree with your in terms of blackmail, except my husband genuinely believes what he is saying. He actually feels that it would be a compromise he'd be ok with on his part, and he doesn't see why I shouldn't compromise because of it. I do however also agree about your viewpoint of how it may affect those we chose to swing with.

fun4Ds: Thank you. Again, as I said above, my husband actually believes what he's saying, including the "it's not fair" bit. He genuinely doesn't see why I'd have a problem with it, and while he acknowledges that I do have a problem, he seems to think that I'm the one that should deal with it since it is my problem.

We've been over this topic for a couple of months now, and I have seriously thought about it, instead of just discounting it offhand. At this point in time there are quite a few things that make me uncomfortable with the current situation, and while I do think that swinging might resolve it from his point of view, it would only aggravate things on my end (and I'm sure not other couple would want to deal with something like that when they'd just want to have fun in the first place).

We've discussed and argued about the topic at length, and I don't even know how to talk to him about it more so he can understand what I'm going through, because he genuinely does not understand. I've had him tell me how he thought I was being selfish in not wanting to swing or date with others at this point.

rose_bleu
02-13-2011, 09:32 AM
Maybe I should clarify a bit. One of the things my husband doesn't seem to understand is that at this point in time I do not find the idea of having sex with anybody other than him appealing. Actually (and I would never have thought it possible before this relationship) I am no longer finding myself sexually attracted to people other than him. Oh, I can appreciate the physical beauty, but it doesn't contribute to turning me on the way it might have in the past.

When it comes to him, however, I'm ready to go anytime.

He's said that if that's the case, then he doesn't see why I shouldn't be ok with him dating while I'm not, or having sex with others, and that I wouldn't have to.

He's even tried to tell me how this would make him want to have sex with me more often (and that the restriction is making him want sex less often). Personally I see that remark as another red flag. I don't see how whether or not we have sex with other people should have anything to do with the frequency at which we have sex ourselves.

He's been saying that he's being reasonable in his arguments and that I'm being irrational. Meanwhile I see it as the opposite. What makes this so complicated at this point ( i.e.wanting to resolve this conflict in a way that our relationship survives and we're both happy) is that we both love each other. If that wasn't the case i'd have been out of the relationship at the first feeling of pressure in this direction.

funcoupledayton
02-13-2011, 10:27 AM
I'm sorry you're in this situation. I really don't think swinging is a compromise. Besides, no one wants to swing with a woman who is not into it. A compromise might be more role play with just you and him or more dirty talk in bed. Maybe seeing a sex positive marriage counselor or a sex therapist would help. It sounds like he is giving an ultimatum on you relationship and that is not fair or good. I'm really sorry.

Powerglide
02-13-2011, 11:19 AM
It seems to me that your husband's demand is not only selfish and inconsiderate -- hey, who hasn't been selfish and inconsiderate at times -- but also quite impossible and unworkable. Without genuine desire on your part, the best that could happen in a play date would be an evening of misery and unhappiness for everyone involved, including your husband. It almost seems as if your husbands desire for new nookie has made him forget why he married you. I'm no one to give marital advice -- I couldn't figure out how to save my own (totally monogamous) marriage a few years ago. But I will suggest that it couldn't hurt to see a marriage counselor. I can't help but think that this is a symptom of some deeper issue that is not currently evident.

truckerbuddy
02-13-2011, 03:45 PM
welcome to the board rose bleu, i hope you find what your looking for. the people here are the best your going to find..

Alura
02-13-2011, 05:21 PM
:welcome: from Oklahoma, Rose_bleu! Thanks for joining us and for sharing your concerns.

It seems to me that your husband hasn't thought this through, Rose. My guess is that (if you agreed to his demands) he'd be sitting at home most of the time while you were out getting laid. I'm just a hick Okie, and I have little experience with "open marriage" but it seems to me it's a whole lot easier for a woman to bestow pussy than for a man to find it. :) She's likely to find a lot more interested partners. With a married man, it's an uphill battle while most single (or, for that matter, married) men don't look at a free horse's teeth to check it's age.

I had a fleeting thought of your agreeing with him and going out often, whether or not you have a date, perhaps to a movie, but letting him think you're very active.

"I'm sorry to be so late, Darling. John was just insatiable! He insisted on a third round."

"I didn't realize what time it was, Darling. The clock in Bill's bedroom didn't work and the only thing I was ever able to see was the ceiling."

"Is it one o'clock, Darling? Henry came really quickly, I had time to stop by Larry's place and let him finish the job, but time got away from me."

"Oh, please, Darling. Not tonight. Allen is really hung and my pussy is so sore... can we wait until tomorrow? Oh, I'm sorry! I can't tomorrow. I have a date with Raul. How about next Thursday?"

A fun fantasy, perhaps, but not a good idea. Honesty is not only the best policy in marriage, it's indispensable. Besides, it's my opinion that a couple interested in "strange stuff" need to do it together. In the meantime, I'll echo the idea of marriage counciling. My best to you, and please keep us informed.

Alura

LFM2
02-13-2011, 05:31 PM
My husband brought up the concept of dating other people back at the beginning of December, and I was completely against it. After trying to tell me how my feelings and discomfort were irrational, he's then been suggesting swinging as a compromise "on both our parts", and that while he'd prefer to "date" other women, he could accept not doing so if he could just have sex with other women.

He's been going as far as suggesting the couple I've been with before in hopes I'd be more comfortable with the idea. I've told him time and time again I wouldn't be comfortable with it (at least for now), and that I feel he's trying to force me into it, to which he replies that he feels he's being "forced" into monogamy.

At first I was so afraid to lose him that I didn't say too much on it, but I've become more and more firm on my stance the more he's insisted. I've told him that I'm not "forcing" him to do anything, that he is just as free to date other women and have sex with them as I am free in leaving him if he does so. He keeps saying how that answer isn't fair, and that I "care more about monogamy than our relationship". He also says how he feels more and more restrained at the thought of not being able to have sex with other people.

Of course, the more he's insisted, the more uncomfortable I've been feeling with the entire situation.

Ironically I don't know whether or not I would have been more ok with swinging once I felt our relationship was stronger, but at this point I'm getting more uncomfortable with the concept as he keeps bringing it up and insisting on how unhappy he would be in not doing so.

I'm starting to feel as if our marriage is in limbo at this point. Any advice?

Hi rose_bleu. :welcome3: to the Board and I really hope you get the answers you want regarding this. I have an opinion (I am very opinionated as you will see if you read my posts!) and I think you're right on on this.

You're not forcing him into anything and I believe your reply to him was spot-on. He can do anything he wants as long as you're free to leave him. There is nothing fair in the LS, and that's not what the LS is about. It's about having fun and wanting to see your partner be happy. (my definition) and if anyone is keeping tabs, you need to back out of the LS and take a good hard look at your relationship with each other.

I'm guessing there is an air of jealousy with him because you've experienced something he hasn't. My only advice is to talk. Communication is a wonderful tool. Hear him out and listen to what he's really saying. Not only hear the words, but listen and understand what he's really trying to say. He should do the same for you. He should really listen to what you have to say. If you don't understand each other, reiterate in a different way so that he will understand what you're trying to say.

Good luck to you both. Please keep us informed how this is going.

The Fuse
02-13-2011, 08:15 PM
This is not really a swinging issue, since your husband offered it as some kind of weird compromise that he probably knows won't work, since you say you have no desire to have sex with other men.

The way I see it, you have a few main issues. The first is kind of academic: what is "rational" or "irrational" in this situation? Are you rational to want a monogamous marriage? Is he irrational to demand to be free to pursue dating other women? I think it would help if you can actually articulate why you don't want him to date other women, and if he can actually articulate why he thinks he needs to, or at least explain the desire.

For your part, I think it's important to put aside the *societal* expectation of monogamy being the norm and "of course" anyone who wants an open marriage is automatically in the wrong. Forget about society. Why do you, rose_bleu, need your husband to forsake all others? This is a very important question, and one that may take a while to get to the bottom of. You could try to answer the question of what specifically you think you would be losing if your husband pursues his desire for variety. Is the problem that you think you might lose him to another woman? Or lose more of his time, or his attention, than you're willing to give up? Or perhaps you simply believe deeply that married people should sleep only with each other? Your original post said that your current opinion is that monogamy is the lifestyle for you, after having some experience with other lifestyles. Maybe you will come up with different answers entirely.

Most people in society "know" that married people should only have sex with each other for the health and stability of the marriage, and they "know" that a desire to have sex with others is an affront to them and their status as spouse. As swingers, we have come to believe this is not true. But swingers (by and large) also want both spouses to have the desire in more or less equal parts, and also to (mostly) participate together, couple to couple. Personally I don't think that is the only right answer. The right answer is some arrangement where both partners feel they are valued and happy in the relationship, and confident of its strength. If it sounds like I have spent some time thinking about this, you're right.

For your husband's part, he needs to reach deep inside and explain what is motivating him so strongly to believe he needs to be "off his leash" or feel too caged to continue in a happy marriage. Is he looking for outside validation? Does he crave attention from new women for the excitement? Is he afraid of getting old, and needing to cram in all the "dating" he can before his time expires?

My opinion is that perhaps once you have the answers to those questions, you could make headway on who is being rational or irrational. But that may not matter so much as the below.

The other, more important issue is that you have what *could* turn out to be an irreconcilable difference, regardless of whether either of you comes to think of either position as rational or not. You need your husband to not date other women to be happy.. He needs to be free to date them in order to be happy. From what you write, he feels he doesn't have a way forward in the relationship unless he has this freedom. Also from what you write, you are not sure you can continue unless he agrees to stay faithful. By the way, if he does agree, I believe you are setting yourself up to find out one day that he is cheating. That urge for sexual freedom drives people to do things they never thought they would or could do.

You two love each other, your sex life is good together, and everything else seems to be a go in the relationship. I hope you can find a way past this. It has already been difficult for you, and finding a way that you can both move forward and feel positive about your marriage will be a challenge unless one of you comes around to thinking about things in a different way.

I hope you will continue to check in and let us know how things are going. I don't know you, but my thoughts are with you.

JustAskJulie
02-13-2011, 08:59 PM
Just to clarify - you've been monogamous (both of you) the entire time you've been together, not just since you've been married?

That said, don't ever let anyone ANYONE tell you that your feelings are irrational. Yes, sometimes our feelings are irrational, but that doesn't mean they should be valued any less (especially by someone who loves us).

It sounds to me like your hubby is just looking for permission to cheat.

bi4me2
02-13-2011, 09:33 PM
(him) Wow, so much to say about this!

Love and relationships are about what both of you want and need while respecting the wants and needs of the other .... or as I like to say it is a 100% / 100% thing.

What your husband is doing is taking his feelings into consideration above yours. This IMO is nothing short of selfishness and childish (at best).

Swinging, open relationships or whatever people are 'into' is something BOTH have to be interested in, comfortable with and above all NOT forced into.

He is, and I am sorry for saying this outloud, being manipulative. He is trying to manipulate you into something you don't want to do by using your past as an 'ace in the hole' .... not good, not good at all.

While is seems like the two of you talk, one half of 'you' isn't listening ..... you need to sit him down and lay it out in no uncertain terms and again I am sorry to say this, let the chips fall where they may.

If my wife came to me tomorrow and said "I don't ever want to do that again and here's why" I would respect her wishes. Why? Because she is my wife and more than anyone else I respect her and her wishes ... that is what a relationship is about.

Wish I could sit down with your man and explain the facts of life to him cause he is acting more like a little boy rather than a man.

Stick to your guns, only you know what's right for you and if he really loves and respects you he had better figure out his #1 job is respect for you.

MIbbwcpl
02-14-2011, 03:28 AM
It seems to me that he's more concerned about having a pass to get outside pussy without guilt than your relationship. Unfortunately I think many of us have heard this tale before, and I've even encountered it in a club! It's all about respect and communication, IMO. Partners need to respect each other and communicate openly. It is disrespectful, not only to yourself, but also your relationship to 'compromise' and do something one or the other doesn't want to do. You have no interest in having an open relationship, and if he truly cares about you and your marriage, he needs to respect that. I'd say it's better to end things now before compromising into something you don't want, than to do it and resent it. I think he needs to do some soul searching and find out why he feels this way, and what he needs to do to fix it. The problem really is his, and not yours. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

SW_PA_Couple
02-14-2011, 10:43 AM
. . . I am no longer finding myself sexually attracted to people other than him. . .Your feelings do you credit. I'll be cheering for you and your husband from the sidelines.

Tina and Bob
02-14-2011, 01:29 PM
Rose Bleu, do you have a place you can hang out for a couple of weeks maybe even longer? I think your hubby needs to get a taste of what life without you would be like and then maybe he'll come to his senses. Good luck to you.

wifes_toy
02-14-2011, 02:38 PM
My wife and I have been together and monogamous for 10 yeas. This past couple of years we started with role playing and fantasies. Last year we started going to swinger events and finally last week we had our first MFM. It was VERY exciting and very comfortable for both of us. It was our first real sex with some one out side of our relationship.

Now, 5 years ago? No way in HELL could we have had an open relationship. There was never a hint of cheating but the trust it takes to do this Life Style takes time to build. We had to grow as a couple before taking this step. One other bit of advice I see over and over on this forum if things are not great "Stop Swinging till you figure it out!" I think this is KEY. Even among a group that enjoys sex out side of the couple "stop swinging for now" is still the single most common recontamination.

In your case, don't start till you both are on the same page. We don't know enough about the dynamics of your relationship but I do know I would not want you two in our lives till you get it figured out. It is a shame to put that many years into a relation ship but really any thing big or small can be a deal breaker. It is up to the two of you to decide if this is or not. From where I sit I do not think extramarital sex is the deal breaker, poor communication and understanding is.

What about getting his side in this forum? I know some times when my wife and I do have an argument we can chat on line and work it out. Some times verbal is not the best way to talk.

JustAskJulie
02-14-2011, 03:22 PM
Just wanted to add something - in order for something to be a compromise, both parties have to be getting something they want.

I just realized as I typed the word out that it equals com-promise (both parties are promising something exchange for something else). What are you getting out of this deal? Absolutely nothing.

bbarnsworth
02-14-2011, 03:33 PM
to which he replies that he feels he's being "forced" into monogamy.

Was it clear when the two of you married that it was a monogamous relationship? If so, he wasn't forced into anything. Nobody put a gun to his head and made him say "I do". Sorry, but this just SCREAMS at me "I'm a jerk".


I've told him that I'm not "forcing" him to do anything, that he is just as free to date other women and have sex with them as I am free in leaving him if he does so.

Good for you! :cheer:


(and I'm sure not other couple would want to deal with something like that when they'd just want to have fun in the first place).

If we were aware of the situation as you describe, and you offered to play with us, we'd politely decline but be thinking in the backs of our heads "no way in hell".


I've had him tell me how he thought I was being selfish in not wanting to swing or date with others at this point.

Frankly, this is absurd. How much he actually believes it or not is absolutely irrelevant. You're being SELFISH because you don't want to have sex with other people?!?!?! What the hell???????


(referring to something he said) Personally I see that remark as another red flag.

There's red flags all over this. I don't see anything that ISN'T a red flag.


He's been saying that he's being reasonable in his arguments and that I'm being irrational. Meanwhile I see it as the opposite. What makes this so complicated at this point ( i.e.wanting to resolve this conflict in a way that our relationship survives and we're both happy) is that we both love each other. If that wasn't the case i'd have been out of the relationship at the first feeling of pressure in this direction.

He's the one being irrational. I don't know that it's ultimatum time, but it is time to whack him over the head with a giant clue stick. "Look, I understand how you feel, but I will not be pressured into this. Further, insulting me as selfish and irrational isn't helping. Either treat me kindly and fairly, or drop it. We have some serious relationship issues that we need to work on first, long before we ever come around to non-monogamy again!"


There's danger written all over this situation. There's serious underlying issues here that need to be worked out. Even if you consented to him dating other people, consented to him doing everything he hopes to do so that he'll be 'happy' and you won't be 'selfish' and 'irrational', this will end badly.

Swinging isn't going to solve anything. Neither will him dating while you stay monogamous. Or, for that matter, any other non-monogamy scenario he can dream up.

You must resolve the underlying issues in the relationship. If he's not committed to doing that, there's not much hope. WhatEVER you do, do NOT have kids with him until this is very satisfactorily worked out.

Don't allow yourself to be permanently sucked into this crappy existence. A million people NOT in this situation will universally tell you this sucks. It's easy to be in this situation and think "But I LOVE him!" and think it's all ok, and just a phase, etc. You said it yourself; you would have been gone already if you didn't love him. Don't let emotions cloud your logic. If it IS a phase (honestly, I doubt it), it ends...NOW...not in a year, not in a month, not tomorrow. NOW. Either he is committed to making the relationship work, and is willing to drop his 'needs' or this will end badly, guaranteed.

rose_bleu
02-15-2011, 03:24 AM
First,

I want to thank all of you for your replies. They have been very helpful.

Yesterday I went over the thread (what I wrote, and the replies that were already posted at the time) with my husband, and we had a long talk. It seems there were a lot of communication issues involved, and reading how I viewed the situation brought home to him the way I was feeling, as well as made him realize that apparently I didn't understand what he was feeling.

To better understand the situation, I think a little more backstory is needed here.

When my husband and I got together we talked about whether or not we were going to be monogamous. It seems we both walked away thinking we'd come to an agreement, but with two completely different understandings as to what that agreement was. The conversation went something along the lines of him asking me what I wanted, me telling him that I'd prefer it be just the two of us, since I've seen so much drama in open/poly relationships, I didn't think it was a good idea to go that route with a budding relationship, nor did I want to deal with something like that. It was a bit longer than that, but I thought I made myself clear about wanting monogamy, and he came out of it thinking that we might open it up some when our relationship got stronger.

Our relationship is doing great (we've had some ups and downs like any couple, but we've always talked them through), we move in together, get married, and the issue isn't brought up again until this past December. He'd been talking more and more about his fantasies of girl on girl (and them him jumping in), and then he brings up the subject. This is where our earlier misunderstanding ends up blowing in both our faces during our arguments, without us realizing it. He's accusing me of completely changing in just a couple of years, and I don't know where that's coming from. Meanwhile, I'm wondering what happened to him. It took us over a month to finally figure out what the confusion stemmed from, and we've been trying to take it from there.

Now to further complicate matters, both of us have somewhat different communication styles that we're still getting the hang of, even though we've made significant progress through our relationship. I have a tendency to understate things, and internalize, sometimes up to the point where something may blow up - though I've been getting better at that (I assume that stems largely from my upbringing, and due to the fact that most of my family had to deal with double meanings in their verbal communications during communist Romania, and though I'm only 25, and I've lived here most of my life, my parents made certain that innuendo was a constant while I grew up). My husband on the other hand is very literal in his meanings, sometimes overly so, to the point where he will argue semantics and I will have to pull out a dictionary to point out the second meaning of a word I am using while he's assuming I'm using the first.

When he read the posts I made there were quite a few exclamations of "that's not true!". We've gone through most of them and clarified quite a few. Apparently he thought I suggested swinging as a compromise, while I thought he suggested it as a compromise. Seems that came about after my friends said that if he and I ever decided we wanted to fool around with them, then the offer is on the table. I mentioned it to him in passing, which he took as me suggesting it (though he didn't say anything about that at the time), as opposed to what I had intended it as: "Hey, this is what happened today." Of course, when we later had a discussion on dating other people, he brought swinging up, and them generally up as a compromise, which is where I thought it had been his idea in the first place.

One particularly big thing on his "not true!" list was this part of my initial post: "insisting on how unhappy he would be in not doing so". He pointed out, correctly I might add, that he never said the word unhappy, but uncomfortable. I asked "but doesn't that mean you're unhappy?" to which he replied "No, it does not." He further went on to give me an example: "If you're wearing an itchy sweater on the happiest day of your life, would that make you unhappy? No, that would make you uncomfortable, there is a big difference." He further went on to tell me that while swinging would make him more comfortable, not doing so would still only be as uncomfortable as an itchy sweater or a splinter on the happiest day of his life, and that he'd still be happy being with me and monogamous.

Continuing on the word "uncomfortable", I had to explain to him that unlike his definition for it (which he assumed was what I meant when I said I'd be uncomfortable with swinging, but waaaaaay less so than him dating other people), that when I used it I was actually meaning "unhappy".

There was a lot more to the talk, but it was good for us both. I think it made us realize that we still have a long way to go in terms of fine-tuning our communication filters with one another. We've agreed to no swinging for now, maybe ever. He seems to be content to let me call the shots on that, after understanding how much it was affecting me, if not so much the why.

Who knows? Maybe one day I'll be comfortable enough to try swinging once or twice and take it from there. Or maybe not. I'd still need to be sexually attracted to both parties in a couple for that. It would also have to be a couple that has been together long term and is stable enough for me to feel there would be no drama involved.

At this point though, I can explore those feelings without feeling pressure (whether intentional or not), which makes all the difference in the world.

~RB

P.S. To those who said he might cheat: thank you for your concern (and yes, it is appreciated). Believe it or not, my husband is not that type of man (and yes, I have dealt with that type before). I wouldn't have married him if he was. He'd break up with me before he'd ever consider sleeping with somebody else without my knowledge.
P.S. The Fuse: My response to your reply warrants a full post, which I'm about to make separately.

rose_bleu
02-15-2011, 04:14 AM
The Fuse:

First of all, thank you for your reply, and your support, they are both appreciated.

At this time I would like to point out that if I cared at all about the "*societal* expectation of monogamy", then I definitely wouldn't have been in poly or open relationships in the past, let alone had friends with benefits in between. Society isn't involved in this relationship, my husband and I are.

There are many reasons why I would prefer to be monogamous at this point. One of the main ones is the fact that I just simply am no longer sexually attracted to other people, as I've explained in a previous post. For my husband to be dating and/or having sex with others while I'm at home "knitting" seems to be a good way to unbalance a relationship, don't you think? I'm not good at sharing, especially sharing romantic attentions.

Another big reason I'm uncomfortable with non-monogamy for myself at this point is all the potential drama and complications that are involved in poly and open relationships. I've seen it happen many a time before both in relationships I was involved in and in ones friends were involved in. Someone new comes in, decides there should be a competition, and the drama starts. Even when that doesn't happen, misunderstandings and rates of arguments go up as the number of people involved in poly/open relationships go up. I am not saying these relationships can't or don't work with the right people, I'm just saying that they take a lot more work and have a lot more potential pit-falls from my point of view, and finding those right people is like searching for a needle in a haystack for each and every single one. In the case of poly/open I still wouldn't be a good candidate, as I've said: I'm not good at sharing romantic interests. I don't like timeshares, I find them limiting.

Swinging would probably be a good solution, as I don't think sex is the same thing as love or romance. Then again, I'd have to be present and involved, and that would require I be sexually attracted to the other people in the group besides my husband, which - considering what I've said before about not finding people other than him sexually attractive at this point - may be a problem.

My apologies if I came off as confrontational, but I am the last person to put much stock in societal expectations and norms. I'm pro gay marriage; I have friends that are in swinger/poly/open relationships; I'm agnostic and can't stand religious fanatics (that includes fanatical Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindu, etc. Note: I have no problem with religious people as long as they don't use it as an excuse to start trouble with others); I abhor damsels in distress that don't try to get themselves out of their own messes; I think factory farming is dangerous to human health; I think the pharmaceutical companies aren't being regulated enough and should do testing that's a lot more rigorous before putting certain drugs and chemicals on the market; I think that anyone in a relationship should contribute without excuse; etc etc.

Now that we've made that clear, *takes a deep breath* In terms of my husband my above update should explain some things. Apparently he never said unhappy, he said "uncomfortable", which to me meant the same thing but to him did not. We've talked and he says he's actually happy in our relationship, just a bit uncomfortable with not being able to have sex with other girls, but that it isn't a requirement. Turns out we had quite a few communication issues when we were talking about this topic, and the small misunderstandings turned to bigger ones the more conversations we had until they got resolved.

~RB

swing.kidz
02-15-2011, 01:57 PM
The Fuse:

Apparently he never said unhappy, he said "uncomfortable", which to me meant the same thing but to him did not. We've talked and he says he's actually happy in our relationship, just a bit uncomfortable with not being able to have sex with other girls, but that it isn't a requirement.

~RB

What, exactly, does being "uncomfortable" mean?

Does it mean, that every time you guys have sex, it's gonna be like wearing an itchy sweater because you're the same person he's had sex with for the last however many times with no added variety? Sounds fun!

OR..does it mean that monogamy with you is not what he got married for...or does he think he was mislead by you and now he just has to tolerate his decision? Even more fun!

ORRR...does it mean that marriage to you alone is "uncomfortable" because he needs increased validation from other sexual partners/spouses? Not exactly the "solid" foundation that's a needed prerequisite for a healthy marriage, let alone embarking on a poly arrangement. I don't know how he thinks using the word "uncomfortable" helps his case AT ALL.

I'm confused with his choice of words...mostly because they don't seem like ANYTHING was resolved. It still reads like a manipulation...it's like he said "you want me to enjoy being married to you, and not just complacently content? Then let me have another wife!..or at least date around!!"

You have identified the need for clear and concise communication; you can be lauded for that. So start using using it! Ambiguous words like "uncomfortable" don't have any relevance in this situation without the implied negative connotation. There is no hope for your marriage if it is uncomfortable for your husband! Especially if what would make your husband comfortable would mean violating either spouses' values.

I can only imagine what my wife would say if I told her..."well, you know...I'm happy with you, it's just that being with ONLY you makes me uncomfortable." She'd shit-can me so fast I wouldn't even know what happened. Now, I'm not saying that you must have the same personality as my wife to be credible, but you do need to take a more critical approach to what your husband is telling you. Look at it this way, today he is "uncomfortable". BUT you're young...and imagine 25 years of "uncomfortable". I would think that after 25 years of having to wear an itchy sweater, one might begin resenting it...and blaming it for his/her unhappiness. You're not even 30 and already there is a major criticism from your spouse regarding your marriage.

Good luck.

savcpl912
02-15-2011, 05:39 PM
Hi Rose.. It all sounds so very confusing. the wife and I have been married 23 yrs now and only been in the LS for 2 yrs. We do find it fun and enjoyable. However we talked about it a number of years before we started. My asking of course but never playing the guilt card. That in itself is hard in only a 3 yr relation. I do have to wonder why you tied the Knot if he still wants to play. I do not recommend the he play and you not scene. We tried that and it didn't go to well. Even in a secure relation the 'fair' aspect seems to pop up and goes one sided. Hold your ground and see why he realy wants to play the field.

red_sweater
02-15-2011, 07:28 PM
So this is rose_bleu's husband that many of you have so much to say about, and yet haven't heard from. With moderator approval, I'd sure like to join in the discussion.

fun4Ds
02-15-2011, 09:41 PM
Welcome to the Swingers Board, red_sweater ! Your thoughts will surly be appreciated by all means. No need for moderator approval, if you'll complete the registration via the email link, sent to the address you provided.


fun~

LFM2
02-15-2011, 10:36 PM
So this is rose_bleu's husband that many of you have so much to say about, and yet haven't heard from. With moderator approval, I'd sure like to join in the discussion.

Would love to have you join in on the conversation. :) Welcome to the Swingers Board.

JustAskJulie
02-16-2011, 01:04 AM
red.sweater - please do join in the conversation.

Having read rose_bleu's latest update I applaud you both for communicating. We've had many such misunderstandings in our house. More than I can count where we are both basically saying the same thing but think we both think the other one is disagreeing...lol.

Something that we often find helpful (although don't do it nearly enough) is to repeat back to the other one what we "think" we heard them say. "So what you are saying is....." and more often than not we get the answer of "noooooo, that's not what I meant" and then the other tries again to explain what they are saying in a different way. So many words do have multiple meanings that we can often hear them and think someone means something different than what they really are saying.

red.sweater - please do not be too upset by all the negative things that were said about you by those of us hearing your wife's side of the story. I'm sure now that you understand how she was feeling at the time (and therefore what we were all seeing/hearing) that you might have said the same things about yourself. It's great to have you both here and I hope you will both share your thoughts on these subjects, but most of all I hope you will continue to take what you read here and discuss it with each other and that maybe, if nothing else, you will both walk away from this experience (and this board) with a better understanding of each other and a heightened level of communication.

red_sweater
02-16-2011, 01:40 AM
Well, I hate to nitpick, though I'm being told that my account has been activated but I am currently in the moderation queue to be added to the forum. I'll continue just in case this actually makes it through.

Firstly, I should start by saying that Rose's first post was the result of an argument we had. I don't think it was entirely fair and balanced as she later admitted both to me and on this forum, so some things there actually were not true. A good many things there were actually her interpretations being presented as fact. We've talked about it; she knows it's the case, so I'll try not to dwell too much on it.

I am poly by nature. Some people are monogamous, which I have no issue at all with. What I do have an issue with are monogamous people who feel that everyone else should be monogamous or "monogamous until proven otherwise". I'm saying this because I've seen some comments here that seem to indicate that kind of thinking.

At the very beginning of our relationship, Rose and I had a series of talks concerning whether our relationship should be monogamous or not. While neither of us remembers the exact wording of this 3 year old discussion, I understood that we would eventually be poly when she was secure in our relationship, and she understood that we may never open the relationship to others. Secure that we had a productive discussion and a seeming consensus, I didn't bring it up until I thought she might feel more secure. I see now this was a mistake.

So that basically leaves us married three years later with one of the fundamental aspects of our relationship completely misconstrued from the start. I'm not sure what I'd call this, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't use the words selfish, blackmail, manipulative, or disrespectful in my description.

Swinging was mentioned first by her, which I falsely understood to be a suggestion. I've had to train myself to read between the lines during the course of our relationship because, as Rose has said, I'm a lot more direct than she is. Sometimes I try to read too far between the lines. In this case, I thought this was her suggesting some kind of compromise.

After everything, I've offered to be in a monogamous relationship with her. I don't think this is an amazingly fair or comfortable arrangement for me all things considered, just as she would say the idea of being in a poly relationship would be uncomfortable for her. I'm willing to do what it takes to make the relationship work, though, and even if no one else does, I still think that's worth something.

slevin
02-16-2011, 08:55 AM
After everything, I've offered to be in a monogamous relationship with her. I don't think this is an amazingly fair or comfortable arrangement for me all things considered, just as she would say the idea of being in a poly relationship would be uncomfortable for her. I'm willing to do what it takes to make the relationship work, though, and even if no one else does, I still think that's worth something.

I think it would be good for you to go back and re-read your post. Yes what your wife originally posted was given as fact. Since then you've both come to understand that your interpretations of events were not the same. She posted what she thought was the case, how she felt and what she thought. Whether that is how you saw it is irrelevant to how she felt. Her feelings and emotions as a result of her interpretations aren't irrelevant and you may need to learn to understand that. You don't seem too accomodating and call her post "misinterpretations". THat is a word that seems to assess blame, even if you didn't intend it. To a woman who looks for the hidden meaning, she will feel blamed I'd bet. As much as she may try to learn to be more direct in her style and stop looking for hidden meaning, you also need to learn to understand that she will be looking for that hidden meaning. It isn't just trying to read between the lines, it's also understanding her communication style so you can try and effectively communicate to her. She needs to do the same as well of course.

Now, I think you've got a choice to make. She wants to be monogamous. Either you are on board with that, or you're not. The words you chose here offer up a lot of "I'm not excited about this, but I'll do it...". Rather than making the choice and running with it, they come across as making sure that she knows you aren't excited about it. Whether that is intentional or not, that is how it is going to come across to a lot of people. You can say that it's just being misinterpreted, but again, with a wife who looks for hidden meaning I bet that is going to cross her mind (and seems to already have based on her posts). That sort of thing is also why some folks may be calling you manipulative. It's the kind of reply that many people use as manipulation tactics both consciously and subconsciously. If you didn't intend it in that way then re-reading it trying to be objective may help you understand where your wife is coming from.

Part of effective communication is taking responsibility for other people misunderstanding what you are communicating.

I'm glad to hear that this has started to foster better communication between you both. I hope that it keeps getting better; I know it's something my wife and I keep working on all the time as well! :)

Powerglide
02-16-2011, 10:53 AM
"After everything, I've offered to be in a monogamous relationship with her. I don't think this is an amazingly fair or comfortable arrangement for me all things considered"

My goodness, Red Sweater, you sure know how to sweep a girl off her feet, you sweet-talker, you!

Look, as I read this, your wife's main objection is simply that she is not currently attracted to anyone besides yourself, you lucky dog, you. But you've only been married three years. So my advice is: enjoy the hot woman you have now and be patient. The exclusivity of her sexual feelings is bound to wane: women are no more naturally monogamous than men are, and sooner or later she will start feel desires for others as well.

My experience has been that marriage is rarely either comfortable or fair. If you want comfortable, wear your old shoes. If you want fair, go to court. If you want happiness, give to your wife joyfully. You won't get anywhere by conceding grudgingly! If you are serious about doing what needs to be done for the relationship, you will have to find a way to say to her, "Honey, you are a supremely desirable woman I am delighted to be monogamous as long as you love me and that's what you want." And you have to mean it. That's what it takes to have a good marriage: it's never 50 - 50.

And you both might want to read "Sex at Dawn."

Coupleerotic22
02-16-2011, 12:09 PM
Wow. Let me say Rose that your story of communication sounds very familiar.

I am a quality over quantity kind of guy. But when it comes to communication I feel like quantity is critical. Not that I feel quality is unimportant, it is critical too, but I believe we often think we are communicating well, when in reality we are not. In order to learn what quality is, I think that communicating in volume, even over communicating, leads you to learn to determine what is really quality communication.

I will also say you much further ahead of the curve than we (MrsCoupleerotic) and I were at 25. In fact we communicated poorly for nearly 20 years. I was rambling along thinking all was well, until she just came out and told me she was not as happy as she thought she should be at that point her life. I was stunned. It had nothing to do with swinging, that came later,after we learned how to communicate. It was more about a hundred little things that we mistakenly thought were true about each other but were not. All because we thought we understood what the other person meant, when often we didn't.

But we learned to communicate by putting everything on the table, checking and rechecking that we understood what the other thought and felt, over communicating. We came to the point that no subject was taboo and learned, maybe unlearned/relearned it more accurate, what each other was about. We have gotten to the point we can communicate with a glance, but never hesitate to ask, what the other meant if we are unsure. Life is grand now, she has the marriage she wanted, and I have the one I never knew I was missing. So congratulations on where you have come and keep up the work, believe me it is worth it.

As for swinging, if it happens it happens, if it doesn't it doesn't. No big deal either way. In any case it looks like it should be something much further down the road, if ever, for you two. You need to learn more about each other before testing the LS waters, in IMHO.

Now, reading both yours and Red Sweaters post I can see that you style are clearly different and it is not because you told us so, it is evident from how your post are written that your communication styles are different.


I am poly by nature. Some people are monogamous, which I have no issue at all with. What I do have an issue with are monogamous people who feel that everyone else should be monogamous or "monogamous until proven otherwise". I'm saying this because I've seen some comments here that seem to indicate that kind of thinking.

Red Sweater I think you misinterpreted those post. There is is difference between monogamy and fidelity. Fidelity may or may not include monogamy depending your relationship. But it certainly includes understanding your partners desires and wishes and putting what is best for the relationship ahead of and individuals desires. With few exceptions, you will find that swingers on this board will advise staying out of the lifestyle if one of the partners is not 100% on board, or if they have a relationship that is not strong enough or poor communications, etc.

What you are seeing is people giving good advice on how to maintain a solid relationship. Swinging is not for everyone, some relationships can thrive in the LS others will die. In the end we all are about the relationship before swinging. That is were people are coming from in their advice.


After everything, I've offered to be in a monogamous relationship with her. I don't think this is an amazingly fair or comfortable arrangement for me all things considered, just as she would say the idea of being in a poly relationship would be uncomfortable for her. I'm willing to do what it takes to make the relationship work, though, and even if no one else does, I still think that's worth something.

RS - life is not always fair. I am not comfortable with the word uncomfortable in how it is being used here. Uncomfortable certainly has more than one meaning, but it is human nature to remove things that cause is discomfort. I think that is one of the things raising red flags here. There is a huge difference between desiring something you can't have and being uncomfortable about not getting it.

You say you are poly by nature. Well, I am horny by nature :). Being in a marriage means sometimes we put aside our desires and our "nature" for the good of the relationship. So for more than 20 years I put my horny nature aside because it was what was best for our relationship. I was very happy to do so because the relationship meant more to me by far. Fortunately for me, my wife discovered that she was kind of horny too, and brought up sex outside the marriage, and even with me being "horny" by nature, that took some time to get used too. Had she not, then I would be happily monogamous still, because it is more important to me to have a strong relationship. And if I felt for a second the LS was jeopardizing that I would be out of it in a flash. And as I said earlier, most swingers put the relationship at the top of the list in importance.

I, like most people here giving advice, try to read between the lines, look at the tone and phrasing of what is said, and even what is not said. Don't be offended by the advice, it is meant to be constructive. It also given from a vantage point of experience that causes us to look a little deeper than just the words on a screen. But then again it is free advice, so take it for what it is worth.

swing.kidz
02-16-2011, 02:31 PM
I am poly by nature. Some people are monogamous, which I have no issue at all with. What I do have an issue with are monogamous people who feel that everyone else should be monogamous or "monogamous until proven otherwise". I'm saying this because I've seen some comments here that seem to indicate that kind of thinking.



Umm...your wife came here and asked for advice on her desire for a monogamous relationship and the violations of that arrangement that her husband is producing. So, advice that was given to her was in that context. Obviously you're not that "straight forward" in your communication style if you can't seem to keep contextual relevance.

More so, for you to think that her just bringing up swinging in general conversation meant that your relationship will evolve to incorporate that lifestyle is more proof of your not very "straight forward"-ness. You read between the lines there (as you stated) and implied something that wasn't true for your wife. How about a little consistency? I can see your wife's struggle to grasp what you actually want...you are inconsistent. At least your wife has told you that she communicates in innuendo and very subjectively. But for you to say that you are a lot more direct, and then not keep that directness with something like swinging or polyamory can cause some serious problems (as you are experiencing). All of this you have identified, but I just want to add that maybe you're not as direct as you think. If you were, you would have asked her for clarification.

So, I will give the same advice I gave your wife: You have identified the need for clear and concise communication; you can be lauded for that. So start using using it! Next time your wife brings up swinging, directly ask her what she means by it...don't just assume...don't read between the lines...neither of those facilitate clearness and conciseness.

I agree with everyone else above...If your ultimate intention is to have a healthy marriage (with who or however many) swinging and polyamory needs to be agreed upon by all parties or it should never take place. In your case, since your wife is the more modest, you need to (happily, with no guilt or judgment of fairness) acquiesce to her level. Or, you can start planning your exit strategy.

Again, good luck.

JustAskJulie
02-26-2011, 02:27 PM
Look, as I read this, your wife's main objection is simply that she is not currently attracted to anyone besides yourself, you lucky dog, you. But you've only been married three years. So my advice is: enjoy the hot woman you have now and be patient. The exclusivity of her sexual feelings is bound to wane: women are no more naturally monogamous than men are, and sooner or later she will start feel desires for others as well.



Then again, if you keep up the pressure her attraction to you will likely wane sooner rather than later. However, I'd suggest you will want to do everything you can to keep her mental and emotional attraction (whether the physical wanes or not) and pushing her to have a type of relationship she is not ready to have will do more to push her away (and put pressure on all the attraction she has for you).

GOLDEN OLDIE
03-27-2011, 06:16 AM
Dear Rosie; Just a short note from Golden Oldies... We have no doubt your hubby loves you, but like a child and a parent, he gets upset when he cant get what he wants. He has to learn that your happiness comes before his desires to fool around. Follow the advice you have been receiving, stick to your guns, I have had to wait sometimes in my earlier days for my partner to agree to us sharing others, and I understood at all times I was free to get what I wanted, so long as I understood my partner had exactly the same rights to respond as she wished. Wisdom has always taught me that making my partner happy will bring me its own rewards, making her upset is a sure fire way to lose everything...maybe for ever.
Golden Oldies