Reasons for NOT using condoms for swinging?

In the chat tonight we started talking about why people DON'T use condoms, so I thought I'd post this poll here for everyone who doesn't use condoms or only uses them part of them to just see why.

Please don't turn this into a debate over whether or not they effective. Post your reasons and leave it at that... no need to debate.

I voted as "Other" as we are a 1/2 and 1/2 couple. Loss of sensation is one reason, but we will use them in the case of which fertility could be a factor.

I agree. We would rather not use them, but certain circumstances do call for them.

REASONS FOR NOT USING CONDOMS

1) They are NO protection against HIV, herpes and little protection against other std's.

2) The proteins (57) cause Type I, II and fatal Type III latex reactions.

3) The (41 FDA classification) toxins cause allergies and many other serious reactions.

4) The three known and two suspected carcinogens cause cancers.

5) Lubricants (such as silicone) cause serious side effects.

6) N9 (used in some condoms) causes cell mutation and is thought to INCREASE std risk.

7) Loss of feeling and pleasure.

8) Waste of money

9) Inferior birth control, compared to pill.

10) They make sex seem clinical.

Reasons for not using condoms:

1. I don't wear a helmet when driving

2. I swim the the ocean with sharks

3. I walk city streets

4. I ride bikes hard for exercise and fun

5. I fly

6. I don' have sex, oral or otherwise with baggies and rubber

6. I don't have sex with skanks

7. I don't engage in male homosexuality

8. I have never had an STD ever

9. I am not a syringe sharing IV drug abusers and neither is anyone I would have sex with

10. I also don't wear a whole body condom to protect me from contact viral transmission of HPV via hands, limbs, face, torso, etc.

11. I do not subscribe to politically inspired paranoia about diseases, ALAR, eletromagentisim, cell phones, herpes, pit bulls, SARS, terrorism, assault weapons, Africanized bees when the scientific method of detached analysis is proves quite more reliable.

We don't have penetrative sex with other people, so we have no need of condoms, except in circumstances where the reliability of the pill might come into question. We don't really like them because of the loss of sensitivity, the awkwardness involved in breaking off to put one on, etc. etc.

That said, if we were to have penetrative sex with other people, we would use condoms.

We always will use condoms.

Reasons: There are too many RegularGuy's and PaulKing's out there!

Also, My wife and I are VERY fertile. Pull out technique don't work!

Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't.

Every situation is different.

Our personal choice and our own piece of mind is the only thing that counts.

Teresa

I probably should have picked other. We are very new so have had only a couple of experiences. I am fixed and shoot blanks but my wife is still fertile. So my wife's first question is always, can you make babies? If the answer is yes a condom is mandatory. Other than that neither of us likes the feel of them, it's just not the same as the real thing. But we always have them available if the other couple requests them. If requested we have no problem complying.

Originally posted by ciscosv

We always will use condoms.

 

Reasons: There are too many RegularGuy's and PaulKing's out there!

ALWAYS, ALWAYS - NO EXCEPTIONS

even though I am always honest with my partners ... and really really don't think they have anything...

that bit about sleeping with EVERY person that person has ever slept with EVER... really gets to me.

just can't see taking chances...

(plus we are both still young and fertile and use the pill for our own birth control)

Ciscov,

Considering I have never had an STD, and never will, and get AIM checked regularly for other's peace of mind, your ad hominem comment was highly unbecoming.

To suggest that people you disagree with are a disease risk is just outright rude....

May be I am really dumb BUT I do believe that condoms are the only way to protect the one I love... I agree to disagree with people who think I am wrong but this is my personal choice and I really don't oblige any one to follow me on this precept.

After all every one is adult enough to chose his way of life and the risk he/she wants to take in his/her quest of pleasure IMHO.

Take Care.

We use condoms when sharing pleasures. But they do inhibit my style

If its for the 'get in, get off, get out' variety of sex, then they work ok, but I like to be a bit playful and experiment a little, so I may not necessarily stay hard the whole time.

Obviously, this is less than optimal for condom usage.

If condoms don't work against the spread of HIV why isn't a mad scramble underway to protect medical professionals? They use latex gloves as a barrier against catching the HIV virus from patients.

Quote

Originally posted by bill&sabrina

If condoms don't work against the spread of HIV why isn't a mad scramble underway to protect medical professionals? They use latex gloves as a barrier against catching the HIV virus from patients.

Bill

A very GOOD question Bill! And I am curious to know the answer from Paul...

WE always use condoms.. even though we are very careful, i always say better to be safe than sorry

Our first rule in swinging is always to use a condom. It's just something we do....always. The only one that gets me without one is my own husband. There was one case where the guy was older and he freaked out when told to put one on. They got dressed and left. We haven't seen them since. We see that type of behavior as very disrespectful. Other than that we haven't had any problems with our request.

It is another reason I have been dating only women for nearly a year now. I don't want to mess with the condom issue and guys I don't know. It is not a lock they will actually prevent anything, just a better chance you won't get something. And I also don't want to risk mixing my life with my friends I swing with. I've had too many of them break inside me, over me, near me, and have many more leak because either we use them to long after he cums, or it is just not out before some leaks up and out.

Inside of my most frequent group, we only use them if somebody has concern about an outside encounter or something along those lines. I don't like the taste of condoms, and don't go down on guys wearing them. I'm not fond of going down on guys how have worn them at some recent point, but don't make a big deal out of it. Some of the guys wear them because they don't prefer the entire sloppy seconds issue. I personally do prefer it if I'm playing with the girls between men, keeps things neater. But it is not an absolute, I've gotten more cum on my face from going down on women, then with men, of course that's apples and oranges there.

I'd like to try clubs more, or branch out to more people, but don't exactly because my current circle is a nice comfy group I know and trust. I do worry about the chemicals, much the same reason I do about cervical cancer given my very much above average sexual activity. The amount of intercourse I have, and most of the women here, puts us at a higher risk. But I don't suspect any of us serious are going to say "I should do this less" because of it. Human skin and semen don't cause cancer. I wonder about some of the stuff in and on the condoms.

I think condoms suck.

I think stds and unplanned pregnancy sucks worse.

I think we need a male birth control pill

We always use condoms for intercourse, except with a couple we've known for years. Then, and only then, do we go bareback (unless Amelia and I have having intercourse, obviously.)

Both Amelia and I have a background in the medical field, and despite PaulKing's arguments, we still feel that condoms are the best way to prevent the spread of STD's.

Also, last thing I want to hear is either (1) my wife is pregnant with another man's child or (2) I knocked up one of our playmates. After all, the pill isn't 100% effective, but a condom and the pill are pretty much foolproof.

I guess the STD issue is more the thing. I'm on the pill, and I have enough faith in it that it isn't my main concern. And my view on it overall, guys still typically wear them, and I make sure there is one to be had if I expect any sex with another guy that isn't somebody I swing with. Maybe the debate applies more directly to those that are swinging more openly than I am right now.

I think more of the times with people I know well, and the limited context I am engaged in.

We don´t use them with people we know well. But we do use them when out of the country playing with people we don´t know in clubs. The vote was for not neccesary although there comes a time we feel the neccessity, then they cause a loss of sensation. But in most cases we don´t use condoms, cause we feel relatively secure and like to feel the sensations of sex.

I should add if we know the women we are playing with are fertile I use them of course, not wanting pregnancy outside our marriage.

We use them.

If they are only good for "Piece of mind" then so be it.

Mrs naughty thought they would take away from the experience but she says she has found they do not. The only down side for her is a little increased soreness from the friction from the condom.

I havent found it to take away from the sensation that much at all. Being attracted to the person I am having sex with is where most of the sensation comes from anyway.

Guess we just dont like the feel of them. The majority of people we swing with are like us we are both fixed and cannot have children anymore.

If another couple asks to use them, that is fine we have no problem with that at all. In my case though I will only have soft swing with the partner than and let Tam finish me off after we are done.

Are we worried about std's........yuppers, but we dont lose any sleep over it. We take risks everyday of our lives in our chosen careers.

One more thing, we do get tested on a regular basis and we would definitely let anybody know if we had anything at all. After all this lifestyle is based on honesty and trust but that is another topic....

Peace...

It's purely psychological

I've read with interest as this is a subject I've tossed around a lot!

Here is my *twist*.........

What about BI women? Where and HOW does a condom assist?

Your thoughts?

Regularguy said:

Reasons for not using condoms:

 

1. I don't wear a helmet when driving

 

2. I swim the the ocean with sharks

 

3. I walk city streets

 

4. I ride bikes hard for exercise and fun

 

5. I fly

 

6. I don' have sex, oral or otherwise with baggies and rubber

 

6. I don't have sex with skanks

 

7. I don't engage in male homosexuality

 

8. I have never had an STD ever

 

9. I am not a syringe sharing IV drug abusers and neither is anyone I would have sex with

 

10. I also don't wear a whole body condom to protect me from contact viral transmission of HPV via hands, limbs, face, torso, etc.

 

11. I do not subscribe to politically inspired paranoia about diseases, ALAR, eletromagentisim, cell phones, herpes, pit bulls, SARS, terrorism, assault weapons, Africanized bees when the scientific method of detached analysis is proves quite more reliable.

Sir Mike, KCBSW here...

I am with you and just about all of the aforementioned, Regular Guy.

Firstly, we (Slutty and I) believe that each partner has the right to know the level of danger that he/she is exposed to. We happen to swing together, but otherwise believe that it would be unforgivable for either partner to have sex (protected or unprotected) without telling the other. This way, each partner has the choice to be exposed or not.

We always use protection with strangers. This is sometimes not well received and has dampened several potential adventures, but today we believe it to be crucial.

The danger of STD, together with emotional "maturity" in the lifestyle, has caused us to become more selective in recent years. We seek singles and couples who are similarly careful. We recommend Hepatitis shots, and leading a very healthy lifestyle to keep one's immunity up as well. Lots of yoga, vitamins, eating well, balancing work, family, your love relationship and play.

What about BI women? Where and HOW does a condom assist?

There are many folks that use the low incidence of disease transmission among the population of non-IV-drug using bisexual women to support an argument that condom use is a touch over-rated. There is such a thing as a dental dam designed for use by women in intimate situations; they are of infrequent use indeed.

On the general topic - while I too don't agree with the far right's mass hysterics about the use of safe sex to prevent the spread of the dreaded HIV (which I personally have come to believe is not an STD at all) -- Condoms are in fact effective against the spread of some less deadly pathogens such as genital herpes, syphilis, ghonorhea, and Hepatitis.

That said, many anti-condom pundits have a valid argument when they claim that there are both alternative and effective disease prevention models. They argue that relying on condom use as the epitome of good safe sex behaviour only increases a false sense of security and comfort.

These folks present that behaviour modification and not barrier sex are needed to stem the spread of disease. Now, to some on the very far right, this behavior modification is in the form of abstinence and self denial of sexual pleasure -- their method does work in disease prevention to a degree. But, like any other method, only to the degree that it is followed 100%.

Others (including myself) argue that safe sex is a misnomer, that such an animal does not exist in entirety. That sex acts are inherently risky and by electing to participate in them, I accept certain risks of my behavior. Not unlike the risks accepted when one rides a motorcycle or jumps from airplanes. We tend to argue that by labeling certain behaviours as safe we then label others (by association) as unsafe. One could argue that riding a motorcycle without a helmet on is unsafe and yet there are millions of riders that persue that activity (visit Myrtle Beach SC in early May) by choice. While some of these riders are denying that there exists a risk - many others simply accept the risk they undertake. Few would argue against the idea that careful and deliberate operation of their motorcycle is a far better preventative than wanton operation with a helmet on.

It remains that careful selection of partners is a far better disease prevention model than condom wear and random/unselective partnering. As an example - what will happen if you allow a guy with oral herpes to "go down on you"? What if he's wearing a condom? Yep - doesn't matter if he's wearing a condom at all. Understand, there are in fact some annectdotal indications that condom use will help prevent the spread of HIV (ie: studies in brothels among professionals in Nevada) yet those studies do remain annectdotal since it would be unrealistic to expect blind studies which place the subjects at high risk (such as introducing a known HIV+ client into the study).

There is also anectodtal support that condoms do not prevent the spread of HIV (ie: condom use studies already cited in this board) and that increased levels of personal hygeine and care will prevent the spread of all STDs (see studies by the US Army dating into WWI on STD disease prevention theory).

One academic I've heard on the topic sums it up this way:

If you pick your playmates carefully and you're both clean, going in without a rubber is as safe as wearing one. If you insist on sticking your willie-peter in any ol' nasty whore, you better have a raincoat on and even then you'll probably get something painful as a reminder...

Quote: If you pick your playmates carefully and you're both clean, going in without a rubber is as safe as wearing one. If you insist on sticking your willie-peter in any ol' nasty whore, you better have a raincoat on and even then you'll probably get something painful as a reminder...

I don't think this quote sums this up at all. I have met & heard of people that are as normal & as clean as anyone I have ever met that get things. Just b/c you are a nasty whore doesn't mean you have something, & just b/c you say you are clean doesn't mean you are. We live in a world where I wouldn't really believe everything someone tells me. Someone may not even know if they are carrying something. I'm not sure of the length of time, but people can carry HIV & it not even come up in a test for a period of time. So I mean who is to say. Everyone has their own opinion!

Mrs. Sparks and I are working on trying to find our all-important first couple to play with, so the condom issue is up front and imminent for us. Mrs. Sparks is uneasy about STDs and wants her partners to wear a condom. I'm not as scared as she is, but I will honor her concerns, so that means I will wear one, too. While I agree that careful selection of partners and thorough personal hygeine are very important protective factors, the Centers for Disease Control have stated emphatically that, properly used, condoms offer the best protective measure (short of abstinence or monogamy) that is available to the general public. Although they offer imperfect protection, I dare say that many folks in the Lifestyle wouldn't be swinging without them.

As far as the latex issue goes, the smell and feel of latex isn't pleasant, but only about 3% of the U.S. population is allergic to it, from what I have read. Unless you are having sex with condoms quite frequently (or marathon sessions), I don't see how the latex issue is much of a health concern at all. I would think that you are more likely to suffer tangible physical harm from carpet burns, sore or bruised genitals or kissing someone with a cold or flu.

I'm curious if anyone here has tried condoms made of alternative materials, such as polyurethane or Tactylon. They supposedly allow more sensation because they heat up more than latex. Polyurethane, at least, is also supposed to be tasteless and odorless. Haven't tried one myself.

I can never fault anyone's decision to use a condom. It's a personal judgment, and I don't see the validity of trying to push either a pro-condom or anti-condom point of view. I feel pretty safe about swimming without one, but then again, I think about having to explain to my parents/in-laws how a monogamous spouse married for 17 years has contracted an STD!

I'm curious if anyone here has tried condoms made of alternative materials, such as polyurethane or Tactylon.

I have a playmate with a latex allergy, so we use polyurethane condoms, and they have been just great! I really believe I get at least as much, if not more, sensation with those than with latex.

For some reason the Saturday Night Live quote; "Jane, you ignorant slut. . . " just popped into my head.

Anyway. . . . reasons we don't use condoms.

Lack of sensation. Also being a man of 40, I sometimes have erection issues. Stopping to install a condom can cause enough delay to lose and sometimes even keep an erection. We also only swing with one couple at a time (that we go bareback with) but use condoms for the others if the situation should arise (no pun intended). We have a special bond with the condom-less couple and use that as an indicator of something special with them.

The wife has a latex sensitivity, we use polyurethane condoms if needed.

We know unprotected sex is a risk, but so is driving a car to the store for ice cream. Would you not drive to the parlor for your favorite dip of rocky road for fear of a car wreck? We believe in minimizing our risk, but still try to have as much fun as possible.

Do we always use condoms? No. 90% of the time we use them during intercourse but never use them for oral (yuck!). There have been times that in the heat of the moment we didn't say anything and neither did they. From what we have read the odds of catching HIV from hetro intercourse are pretty small so we take the risk during oral. There is risk in everything in life and if you live in fear you ain't living. I wear a seatbelt when driving, a helmet on the motorcycle and a vest when serving warrants but accept that everytime I drive, ride, or go through a door something can go wrong.

This issue is so interesting! My wife and I prefer not to use condoms as we feel that sloppy seconds are part of the whole experience. Also, she would never do oral on a guy with a condom on. She can't stand the thought of that rubber taste. Everyone knows how difficult it can be to find two couples who are all compatible. Try finding another couple you are compatible with who is not afraid of cum!!!

Enough of that. The point I would like to bring up is this; From what I have read on this Message Board, many (if not most) couples/singles prefer not to use condoms or plastic wrap when giving/receiving oral but insist on condoms for intercourse. Some have stated their reason is a pregnancy issue while others have said they feel this is an intimate thing left for just themselves. OK.

My question is for the others. Why? Why do you have unprotected sex for oral but insist on condoms for intercourse? Please don't flamethrow me here. I would really like to know. If the other couple has anything you're afraid of catching, guess what, you've got it now too!

Now, we're fairly new to this swinging stuff and have only played with a single guy we know very well. We feel that other swinging couples we would play with (late 30's, early 40's) would be pretty much just like us and the odds of them having anything would be pretty low.

We state on our online ads that prefer no condoms. (I guess that's why we don't receive many responses!!!) We are still waiting for our first couple/couple experience.

So, except for the pregnancy and intimacy issues, why do you do oral sex unprotected and insist on protection for intercourse? I just doesn't seem to make sense to me to do oral one way and intercourse another.

We hate condoms.

We don't use one with each other but must insist when we're playing with other people.

Before my partner and I got together, condoms were a sometimes deal. It took a pregnancy and a case of trich to get me to think, oh hey, I'd better use something. That was 7 years ago!

We use condoms with other people. I am fertile myrtle, and I don't do hormones. So condoms all the way. Plus I don't like the feeling of being sneezed on, or rather, in!

My partner and I also use condoms when it's just us. Since we have HSV, if one of us is broken out, we can prevent the other from breaking out. So far, it works!

BTW, we found a great condom, Beyond 7, that doesn't cut off Elliot's sensation and doesn't rub against my skin.

Call me conservative, but back when I was NOT using them with my first ever boyfriend, I got pregnant at 18--please never ask about the result. Another reason they have to be used is that NO ONE is worth dying for. The guys still have no problem coming in me with them on. And the one guy who raped me back when I was at FSU did NOT use any condoms, and came in me three times. Needless to say, I spent all the next day in the hospital, and I had his ass kicked out of FSU.

We always use condoms.

No condoms, no sex.

Ok, we've been reading this thread, and other related threads, and have learned that there are a lot of feelings on this subject. We can understand and respect most views we've seen and heard.

For what it's worth, I'm a complete beliver in the protection that condoms provide.

My wife and I, however, have a complication. We've been maried 7 years, commited for over 12, but are just now getting into sharing our sex lives with others. She has discovered that she has, what we think, is at least a mild alergy to laytex. Not severe, but causes her discomfort. We've never used condoms, so we didn't know this until now.

We certainly don't wan to miss out on the learnign and exciting adventures we've just decided to start exploring. We considered non-laytex for birth control (she was on the pill, but hasn't been since I've been fixed).

So, I've been thinking that if we can find a copule to play with, how hard (or how expensive) would it be to get a reasonable STD test set? We're going to start looking into this, but hopefully some out there would know the pit-falls that we may not be aware of, and could make suggestions. Also, how do other couples feel about this idea? It's not good for sex on first meeting, but that's not what we expect anyway. How fast can results be obtained? How much should we expect it to cost? How reliable are such tests, and can they identify carriers or thos whom have "dormant" conditions?

Thoughts?

There are always false negatives though, are you sure you want to trust the test?

I have a mild sensitivity to latex condoms myself, it burns and itches, I even had to stop wearing latex gloves at work a long time ago. The polyurethane condomes are readily available and work just as well without the irritation. I'll still use a latex condom before I even consider letting someone inside of me without a condom though.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO PRACTICE THIS LIFE STYLE DONT BE A FOOL COVER IT. If you have been with the other party in question for a very long time then It could be an opption

I have not posted in this thread before, but why do you guys think HIV in Africa is so rife? Because all the guys are engaging in anal sex the whole time? NOT. The issue is that condom use is condemned by many traditions, and many people don't really know about HIV so they don't use condoms.

The test for HIV is only accurate 6 months after you have had unprotected sex. So you can get a false negative for the 1st six months, but you can still pass on the disease...

So, do you really want to risk it?

Neither condoms or testing are 100% perfect in prevention of transmission of STD's. All either approach does is lower the odds of infection.

Last I checked, there is about a 1-1000 chance of transmission of HIV from

an infected partner during vaginal sex. Using a condom reduces the chance of transmission to 1-10000 during intercourse with an infected partner. However, testing all partners eliminates about 90-95% of the HIV positive and infected/contagious but not yet testing positive folks.

The porn star community has had a relatively low rate of infection of HIV because they get tested regularly. Similarly Cuba showed that in a real life situation they reduced the overall level of HIV infection by quarantining infected people from the general population-something which a lot of docs that can't do statistics predicted wasn't going to happen.

My own stand-I'm not going to tell anyone not to do something that really will lower their odds of infection. Partner choice, testing, condom use all can do this. What has always seemed strange to me is the condom use is the _only_ thing that seems "politically correct" to do in this regard.

I've always found it funny that docs

ALilOEverything said:

There are always false negatives though, are you sure you want to trust the test?

 

I have a mild sensitivity to latex condoms myself, it burns and itches, I even had to stop wearing latex gloves at work a long time ago. The polyurethane condoms are readily available and work just as well without the irritation. I'll still use a latex condom before I even consider letting someone inside of me without a condom though.

I had to choose "other". I am allergic to latex

And yes I know that there are alternatives to latex out there...but they are almost impossible to find in our neck of the woods

PaulKing said:

REASONS FOR NOT USING CONDOMS

 

1). They are NO protection against HIV, herpes and little protection against other std's.

 

2). The proteins (57) cause Type I, II and fatal Type III latex reactions.

 

3). The (41 FDA classification) toxins cause allergies and many other serious reactions.

 

4). The three known and two suspected carcinogens cause cancers.

 

5). Lubricants (such as silicone) cause serious side effects.

 

6). N9 (used in some condoms) causes cell mutation and is thought to INCREASE std risk.

 

7). Lost of feeling and pleasure.

 

8). Waste of money

 

9). Inferior birth control, compared to pill.

 

10). They make sex seem clinical.

I/We like to cum on her face, tits, in her mouth, etc. etc. etc.

It is a great visual...

We always use condoms when out for the evening its only for std's with the mrs as she is fixed and prevention of pregnancies as i am not fixed (yet) but we will always use them with others just dont know who they have been with......... no condoms no play

While I see very many different views on this, the most important one I recall was by TNT..."it's a matter of personal preference."

Our first full swap was without, but that being said, it was with vanilla friends whom we've known for many, many years and they've been together as long as we have (no others for 15 years). While being a true virgin prior to our marriage my wife I had no concerns. Me though, I had not been and therefore for her and my own sake was tested for any and all STD'S and could proudly state that we are clean of them. Our vanilla friends whom we play with now also did the same kinda testing prior to their marriage and were/are clean also.

Long story though so I'll try to be brief, as previously stated we didn't use protection other then BC pills and withdraw, while intense it was, both females felt awkward afterwards as neither male had came with them and they neither one felt completed because we didn't "finish" in them. After discussing concerns on this matter, and trust me there was concerns all around, we decided that BC and withdraw wasn't going to work, the ladies were also concerned with the feeling though of another man's cum in them after so many years would be a problem. That being said we went with condom use and will from now on also as to avoid any chance of anything.

My MO is as long as I've done all I can for her to ensure her pleasure then I can truly enjoy my pleasure which isn't necessarily cumming as much as it is seeing her "glow"!! To me that's better then me cumming whether it's in her, on her, the floor or in a condom. Don't truly see the hang-up.

vysper said:

Oh, and having worked in the medical field, I can say with certainty that the majority of hospitals have not stopped using latex gloves.

Actually, I don't think this is quite true, at least in the northeast United States. Most hospitals have indeed stopped using latex gloves. Nowadays, most hospitals, medical clinics, and ambulances use nitrile gloves instead of latex. This is because of allergies to both staff and patients (and no medical establishment wants to get sued because a patient had a bad reaction to the gloves somebody was wearing).

Latex gloves are still used in some cases, though. Some surgeons, for example, will wear them because they feel they have more control and sensitivity with latex gloves then with nitrile gloves. But that's the exception, not the rule.

When you are looking to hook up with a couple or a single and they don't want to use condoms what excuses do they give you?

I have heard the "interferes with the sensation, " "we have been tested," "we only play with clean people," for just a few examples.