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What are your thoughts on smoking at swinger clubs

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According to a recent slate article only about 13% of American's smoke but when you go to a nightclub or swingers club its seems that over half the people there smoke. As we were leaving the local club, a couple leaving about the same time as us commented on how bad the smoke was in the club. They were leaving because they just couldn't stand it. Now I wonder if all the non-smokers leave early because of it. That might explain why we have so much trouble finding couples that don't smoke at the club.

 

Which got me to thinking, if I went to a swing club non-smoking would be very high on my desires for a swing club (of course, security, cleanliness and good management also rate high). Are there any non-smoking swing clubs out there, or is it just a dream at this point?

 

What about you?

 

1. What are your thoughts on a non-smoking swing club? Good, bad or indifferent?

2. If you don't smoke your favorite swing club is smoking, would you go more often or stay longer if it became nonsmoking?

3. If you smoke, would you go less often if your favorite swing club became nonsmoking?

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1. What is your thoughts on a nonsmoking swing club? Good, bad or indifferent?

We've been to both. Our experience with non-smoking clubs has been, eventually, a significant percentage of the party moves outside to the smoking area, when feasible.

3. If you smoke, would you go less often if your favorite swing club became nonsmoking?

No, we wouldn't go any less often.

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I have noticed this very much! In fact my headline on SLS states "Smoking and Swinging go hand in hand? Beginning to wonder." I think I have noticed that it's more like 75% at the club smokes. Honestly smoking is a turnoff for me and don't dare lean in for a kiss. Not gonna happen.

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During our entire marriage we only went to one club, Menages in Nashville. It was fabulous except for the smokey atmosphere. It was not as bad as a "Honky Tonk" but bad enough that it made us happy to be leaving.

 

As fewer and fewer people smoke, which is the trend, more and more clubs will go to non-smoking. For now, lobby your club owners.

 

Alura

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Come to Ontario! No smoking allowed inside anywhere!! It's awesome!

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I don't smoke. But I don't mind it so much (I'd go on hands-and-knees a mile over gravel just to sniff fresh pussy through a screen door so why would a little bit of tobacco aroma put me off). But JoAnn is very sensitive. She and I just might be that couple you've seen coming out the door with a complaint on our lips. No smoke-eating machine gets it all.

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I hate to say we deal with this topic a lot at the club.

 

The club has been there over 28 years, Mike and Chris, the owners do not smoke. The club is their house. They live there.

 

They would rather make it none smoking but every time they try most of the crowd lets them know it is not going to work.

 

We had some none smoking rooms and they almost NEVER got used. One was a sitting room with big screen porn, couches and set up nicely. That room would go months without anyone ever using it. We tried making the upstairs couples only are none smoking. Once again, tons of complaints from the first night and most refused to use the area.

 

I am willing to bet I get one "smoking" complaint each weekend night. Most of the time if I inquire where they are from they will tell me California! Very strict smoking laws in California. There are some OUTDOOR areas you can not smoke in that state. Once in a while I will get a local say something to me about it but not often.

 

We tried making those areas none smoking and failed. We tried for six years so it was not a short test. Just seems that the none smokers will be vocal but then when we do something for them, they don't use it.

 

The smoking laws got changed in Nevada, no smoking in bars that serve food or anyplace that serves food. Many of the bars started closing their kitchens because all the none smokers that said they would rush in there if it was none smoking never showed up. :eek: Even ones that got rid of their food and allow smoking took a big hit. People in bars want to eat and smoke. The law was pushed on "saving the kids" but for some reason all those kids are not supporting the bars either. :D Many bars ended up closing down and 1000's of people lost their jobs within two years of the smoking laws being passed in Nevada. :surrend:

 

The only other "legit" club here in Vegas has a no smoking inside policy. Most of their crowd can be found in the back yard even in the winter time. :lol:

 

I know the smoke smells and bothers many but seems when it comes to "Adult" type business it will kill the business as many feel it will kill the clients. Hard to make it work either way it seems.

 

When someone that comes up with an idea that really works for all concerned please let me know, we will do it!

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The Bars all said the same thing here when they implemented the law but no drop in business happened.

 

I'm actually against the law from a freedom standpoint, but I have to admit its worked and made my life much more pleasant.

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The smoking laws got changed in Nevada, no smoking in bars that serve food or anyplace that serves food. Many of the bars started closing their kitchens because all the none smokers that said they would rush in there if it was none smoking never showed up. :eek: Even ones that got rid of their food and allow smoking took a big hit. People in bars want to eat and smoke. The law was pushed on "saving the kids" but for some reason all those kids are not supporting the bars either. :D Many bars ended up closing down and 1000's of people lost their jobs within two years of the smoking laws being passed in Nevada. :surrend:

 

As PB&J mentioned, all of Ontario changed their smoking laws quite a few years ago now. You can't smoke inside of anywhere, including bars, restaurants, clubs etc. Initially they allowed for closed off areas inside that allowed smoking. Those areas were always packed, though the rest of the place was fairly busy as well. After a short time they got rid of that provision as well. Now you just can't smoke inside at all. It had an initial impact on bars that I saw, but after a few months everything was back to normal. The swing clubs here are definitely still very busy.

 

I bet if Nevada changed their law to just outlaw smoking inside things would work out. Might be something that doesn't make sense for "Sin city" though.

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The Bars all said the same thing here when they implemented the law but no drop in business happened.

 

I'm actually against the law from a freedom standpoint, but I have to admit its worked and made my life much more pleasant.

 

I hear you on the freedom front. I like to smoke cigars and it's tough to find anywhere to actually enjoy that in the middle of winter. Don't want to stink up my own house with cigar smoke ;)

 

My freedom gets infringed by the smokers too though, so it goes both ways.

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I love the Ontario law from a freedom standpoint, because it gives ME the freedom to visit bars and clubs without becoming vilely ill.

 

And yes, everyone predicted the demise of bars/restaurants/clubs, but they have thrived, probably because people like me are much more likely to spend more time in such places and spend money. It was especially predicted that bingo halls would cease to exist- oh my word, the few times I entered the Lions bingo hall where PB would be helping out I could barely stand it!- but they are still as active as ever.

 

PB is a smoker, but has not been allowed to smoke in the house since our first child was born. Every time he's tried to sneak one, even at the far end of the house from me, at an open window, I've immediately noticed it and yelled at him to stop. He still doesn't know how I manage it.

 

Funnily enough, I actually mind the smell of a cigar much less than the smell of a cigarette. Go figure.

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The Bars all said the same thing here when they implemented the law but no drop in business happened.

 

 

One of the problems that may have made it come true here was that the big casinos can still serve booze and the people can gamble.

 

We have had over 200 "local" bars close down since the law was passed a few years ago now. The bar owners where right, many of them lost their businesses over it. Even many of the "Chain" bars ended up closing.

 

I know a few friends in Las Angles that also lost their bars when it was passed in California. Not as many as what has closed in Las Vegas but it did have an impact.

 

I personally believe the law should be that the owner of a business has to put a sign on their front door. Either they allow smoking or they don't. Let the people decide if they want to go in or not. I guess that is to simple though.

 

Since Nevada now has the highest unemployment rate in the county there is now talk about repealing that law to help some places come back to life. Only time will tell if they really try to do it or not.

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My wife smokes but I don't. I grew up in the bar business in NYC and since they passed the anti-smoking laws business has dropped like a rock. My wife and I will only stay at hotels that have smoking rooms. When we were in Florida recently she discovered that she could have a smoke and a drink so long as the place didn't serve food. She now wants to mover there.

If we were told that she couldn't smoke at a club because the club was totally non smoking we probably would find a different place to hang out.

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Ohio has a limited smoking ban-law, and I love it. No smoking inside any public building. The exception is if the establishment is "private" that requires membership.

 

This law was passed a few years ago, and I haven't seen too many bars close down because of it. Granted, many bars ignore the ban and deal with the fines if they incur them too.

 

I support smoking bans, only because other people smoking can greatly affect the health of those who do not. Its when "freedoms" infringe upon the freedoms of others.

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I think the Freedom that Chicup mentioned is not yours or mine, but rather, as VegasLee touched on, that of the business owner to run the business as he or she sees fit.

 

Our freedom is then the choice of whether or not to patronize the establishment.

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1. What is your thoughts on a nonsmoking swing club? Good, bad or indifferent?

 

The smoke at swing clubs can get to me at times. I played in a band for many years and of course in smoke filled clubs so I just put up wiith it. But I would welcome a smoke free club provided it still had people going!

 

 

2. If you don't smoke your favorite swing club is smoking, would you go more often or stay longer if it became nonsmoking?

 

The smoking does not keep us away. We typically go to our local clubs to specfically meet people (new or friends) and we don't hold back due to the smoke.

 

There is a M&G at a local vanilla bar. We went a few weeks ago and the smoke was so thick my eyes went nuts as soon as we walked in the door (contact lenses). I think we lasted 1/2 hour there. It was a small place with ALOT of smokers so much worse than the swing clubs. Unless we were specifically meeting people I doubt we will return just to hang out.

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Oh how I hate allllll you people ! :surrend:

 

I'm freaking jonezing for a cigarette now, reading this thread. :eek:

 

Its your fault ! :( You broke my will power....

 

I'm going down to the campus now to get a contact "fix" from the Hookah café.

 

Might even buy one of the new "Electric cigarettes", walk into a non-smoking establishment. And hit that fucker in the bathroom, just for SPITE alone !!!

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Nonsmokers that can't handle the smoke learn to do something else besides go to the bar or nightclub. Its hard to relearn to go to the bar and spend the money just because a law passed. It takes a few years for the societal change to click over too.

 

Our last visit at the club there was a lot of rude smoking behavior too. A lady sitting at the bar, kept purposely blowing her smoke on me because she was avoiding blowing it directly into her circle of friends around her. She was turning he head and blowing it right on me without ever bothering to check if it bothered me. I could feel her blowing it in my hair one time. I just wanted to hit her. I waved the smoke away a couple of times but she kept on ignoring me and was busy chatting with her friends. Lovely people who treat you like you are a troll. Also, it is hard to avoid getting burned by other peoples cigarettes once they get drunk, and many of the people there need copius amounts of liquor along with a pack of cigarettes to swing. So I have to be on guard to keep myself and my flammable outfits from getting burnt. Its hard to relax and have fun when people are this obnoxious. The general attitude is if you don't do shots and smoke you are no fun. I'm fun I'm just not a falling down drunk who tastes like an ashtray kind of fun.

 

Since we are not going back to the club we went to the other night, we won't be talking to the owners. There are many other reasons we are not going back.

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Colorado has had a smoking ban for a number of years. As non-smokers, we really appreciate it. I don't know if bars or nightclubs have closed as a result of the law change but it doesn't appear to be the case. We are more inclined to go to a bar now.

 

Colorado law does allow some smoking bars, maybe cigar bars, and they have to be identified as such. They usually have big signs...they aren't shy: "Bob's Smokehouse". There aren't a lot of them, and we avoid them.

 

Our favorite strip club managed to get grandfathered in as a smoking establishment, not sure what the rule is, and, as a result we haven't been there in years...especially since our favorite swinger's club is non-smoking! We like that our local club is non-smoking. Once in a while someone will be outside smoking, but I think that Colorado has a much lower than average smoking population, so there aren't as many smokers to start with as in some other states.

 

There were a lot of smokers at the hotel take over in Orlando last month...more than half of the couples. We got used to it, but it was a downside to the party. We're not wild about kissing smokers.

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1. What is your thoughts on a nonsmoking swing club? Good, bad or indifferent?

 

Good. We'd FAR prefer it. We attended one club where there was a single room for smoking, separated from the rest of the club. Very nice club, and we enjoyed it.

 

2. If you don't smoke your favorite swing club is smoking, would you go more often or stay longer if it became nonsmoking?

 

There's one club we've been two on a few occasions that we stopped going to in part because of smoking. My wife is sensitive to smoke, and the atmosphere was really getting to her. They've got multiple industrial strength air filters built into the air system for the whole place, but it was still too much.

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Guest rdy46227
{snip}

 

I personally believe the law should be that the owner of a business has to put a sign on their front door. Either they allow smoking or they don't. Let the people decide if they want to go in or not. I guess that is too simple though.

 

Berkeley, CA did something similar 20 odd years ago when things were just heating up.

 

Local ordnance required an establishment to post a sign visible outside the door that said what percentage was smoking, and (for the arithmetically challenged) what percentage was non-smoking.

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If someone was blowing smoke on me and didn't seem to care if I liked it, I would take it upon myself to blow it towards them everytime the cig was hung out there and not in the person's mouth.

 

That would definitely illicit a reaction, possibly even a funny one.

 

 

As far as smoking, it's been heavily banned in minnesota now, even in parking lots of various places. So people who want to smoke have to go pretty far away in some cases depending on the rules of that business.

 

We dont smoke, so of course we prefer non smoking. Main reason is because of the smell, we used to hate coming home after a night out and having our clothes smell of smoke.

 

So if a place could have a room that was separately ventilated and a strict policy of no smoking outside of that room, we would be fine with it. Usually though what we've seen is either that room is too smoky and smokers start wandering out where they shouldnt be, or smokers push the limits too far, say by smoking as they are walking to and from the room.

 

We have no clubs in this state, so no experience on smoking inside of a club. But we would have the same view in those cases too, we would rather not have our clothes smell like smoke for days afterwards.

 

At the parties we've been to the hosts usually have set up an outdoor smoking area for people, usually on the backside of a building, since most entrances are also non smoking according to the rules. This being minnesota it will be a bit chilly out there in winter, especially if someone is in party garb.

 

And the rules have cut down on bar traffic a bit, wisconsin didnt change their rules at the same time, and it's not that far of a drive across the border, so some smokers took their business over there.

 

 

From a freedom standpoint it's a touchy issue. What I would prefer to see would be if the business owner could choose whether or not to allow smoking by posting a sign. The thing about that though is the OSHA rules and how they are enforced, that being smoking harms employees who dont have as much of a choice. The govt already regulates liquor heavily as it is, here we have various other laws in most cities regarding gross sales percentages of food and other things along with liquor, so pretty much this is just another law like that. I dont like it, but I dont like walking into a bar with a ton of smoke hovering around the door either.

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What about you?

1. What is your thoughts on a nonsmoking swing club? Good, bad or indifferent?

2. If you don't smoke your favorite swing club is smoking, would you go more often or stay longer if it became nonsmoking?

3. If you smoke, would you go less often if your favorite swing club became nonsmoking?

 

We both are moderate smokers, but we are smokers who would like to quit and have several times for fairly long periods, so have experienced both sides of the fence. We try our best to considerate smokers too.

 

Whether a club allows smoking or not, not an issue with us, although I will qualify that by saying by saying that if finding a place to smoke was a huge pain, then it may start to become a minor factor. We don't smoke in our house, and when we stay in hotels we get a non-smoking room. So, going outside to smoke no big deal at all. But, if we had to leave the premises and walk down to the corner dressed in our clubwear shivering and wondering why all the cars driving by are looking and going reaaally slow, then we wouldn't be too happy.

 

We have been in clubs where the smoke was bad throughout the club. We've been to places that had a separate small smoking room and it was nearly intolerable. You couldn't go have a smoke for the smoke, seriously :eek: We just follow the lead of what seems to be accepted. Even if there are ashtrays on the tables and a few people here and there making use of them, but most people are going outside on the balcony or wherever to smoke, then that's what we do too. Sometimes kinda nice to have a short break anyway and get somewhere in a smaller group and more quiet. If inside the club looks like a Santa Ana wind is fanning the flames, then we will smoke inside like everyone else.

 

Here is what compounds the problem I think. My guess is a large percentage of the people smoking at a club/bar nowadays aren't habitual smokers. But, they go out, have some drinks, and smoke. For many people, they just go together, and it's very hard to do one without the other. We see this in a lot of friends. You will never see them smoke, then get a couple of drinks involved, and next thing you know they are lighting up too. Those who know, know, it is VERY hard to break that connection once it is established. The cigarette companies never really needed Joe Camel advertising and all of that to get teenagers hooked. They know as long as Anheuser-Busch still exists then they will be getting plenty of new customers for their product too. Abstain while at work, around the kids, etc, etc. is doable. Go out partying, willpower is going to waver as soon as you walk through the door and get the first whiff and then head downhill fast after that.

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My guess is a large percentage of the people smoking at a club/bar nowadays aren't habitual smokers. But, they go out, have some drinks, and smoke.

 

I used to think I smoked a whole lot more while at the club. Then I realized, a large percentage of my cigarettes were going to non-smokers that were bumming them from me.

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I used to think I smoked a whole lot more while at the club. Then I realized, a large percentage of my cigarettes were going to non-smokers that were bumming them from me.

 

Ditto ! Before I began my quitting smoking/ lifestyle change parade. I too gave out cigarettes. But my favorite line after hearing people say repeatedly out in the smoke pen was,

 

"you got-a smoke, man"

 

My reply, would always ring " No, I don't got-a, I choose too" :lol:

 

My curiosity now, two4you, is. Do people offer to pay for that lone cigarette ? I used to get offered a nickle each time, then a quarter.

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My curiosity now, two4you, is. Do people offer to pay for that lone cigarette ? I used to get offered a nickle each time, then a quarter.

 

Many do offer. I never accept though. Of course, if the price of them keeps going up, I may have to reconsider. :)

 

I have had someone bring me a pack the next day in payment, which was cool, and very unexpected.

 

I really need to quit (which is obvious). I quit drinking for 6 years once, and that was easy. I've lost a lot of weight, and that was easy. Putting down the smoky treats will be very, very hard for me.

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Many do offer. I never accept though. Of course, if the price of them keeps going up, I may have to reconsider. :)

 

I have had someone bring me a pack the next day in payment, which was cool, and very unexpected.

 

I really need to quit (which is obvious). I quit drinking for 6 years once, and that was easy. I've lost a lot of weight, and that was easy. Putting down the smoky treats will be very, very hard for me.

 

Oh dude, you have got to try the new electric cigarette. I worked in a pharmaceutical plant where even if the smell of cigarette was noticed, people would be fired on the spot, permanently. One day, I was in the parking lot in the morning and noticed what I believed was a dude hitting a "one hitter" (paraphernalia.)

 

I walked over and said, "Hey, we're taking a drug test as soon as we walk in here" :eek: I was wrong as hell as he laughed. It was the new electric cigarette. He explained all the nitty grittys about how much "chemical" is in the cigarettes, as well as expence comparisons. Alarming! What he was getting was nicotine in pure form, with many cancerous and addictive chemicals removed. Me, being me, said. "gimme a hit" No smoke came out on exhale, just a bit of steam (much like exhaling on a cool morning) Later, at break time in a non smoking establishment with Firm rules. There he was taking a toke hidden behind the news paper he was reading. NO SMELL ! No one even so much as noticed. He said he hadn't bought a pack of cigs in over a year.

 

I did by one today over on campus and had a hit, well ,actually two. My pangs were really BAD today. Although still a "vice" I'm good now ! I'm not sitting here choking.... No cigs :cool:

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I'm relieved about the Michigan smoking ban on a personal level but I do understand what it can do to businesses. I can see the effect it has on the parties and it's a noticable difference having half the crowd outside smoking instead of inside dancing. The after parties are so much smaller and less energy with fewer people. With that said, I'm much less miserable now that I'm not surrounded in smoke. I could never make it a full night in my contacts and the next day I would cough like crazy and have a sore throat.

 

I liked how Utopia had it set up back when I went 6 years ago. Smoking was allowed in the bar area, just not allowed in the back where the play rooms were. There was always plenty of play going on without it and the rooms would fill up fast. I don't know when they had to make changes for the new laws but I really think it worked well for everyone.

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According to a recent slate article only about 13% of American's smoke but when you go to a nightclub or swingers club its seems that over half the people there smoke. As we were leaving the local club, a couple leaving about the same time as us commented on how bad the smoke was in the club. They were leaving because they just couldn't stand it. Now I wonder if all the nonsmokers leave early because of it. That might explain why we have so much trouble finding couples that don't smoke at the club

 

Which got me to thinking, if I went to a swing club nonsmoking would be very high on my desires for a swing club (of course, security, cleanliness and good management also rate high). Are there any nonsmoking swing clubs out there, or is it just a dream at this point?

 

What about you?

1. What is your thoughts on a nonsmoking swing club? Good, bad or indifferent?

2. If you don't smoke your favorite swing club is smoking, would you go more often or stay longer if it became nonsmoking?

3. If you smoke, would you go less often if your favorite swing club became nonsmoking?

 

I totally agree if it is soo smokey that i can not enjoy the reason i came there and it would prevent me from returning in the future... Both my husband and I are nonsmokers and would like to meet with others that feel the same way as we do.

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Hi Everyone, smokers and non-smokers seem to be going back and forth about the club rules and reasons regarding smoking and each has a valid point.

 

Perhaps a better question might be: Why is it that smoking and drinking seem to go hand-in-hand with swinging? What is it about the life style that so many feel the need to smoke to the extent that it takes a knife to cut through the smoke at a club.

 

Maybe the smokers can give the non-smokers truly valid and reasonable explantions why their habit or addiction to smoking is magnified when at a club and why they wouldn't enjoy the atmosphere, participate, or attend as much if they couldn't smoke as freely.

 

Smokers, you seem to be the majority, Please explain in a logical, meaningful way why you feel it is your freedom and right to smoke anytime and whenever you feel the need to smoke without the regard of some other patrons whom it may irritate. Don't just tell them they have the freedom to come or not come to the club, it's their choice. You may be turning away many truly nice people.

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Maybe the smokers can give the non-smokers truly valid and reasonable explantions why their habit or addiction to smoking is magnified when at a club and why they wouldn't enjoy the atmosphere, participate, or attend as much if they couldn't smoke as freely.

My addiction isn't magnified at the club. The one thing I do know that is magnified is the number of non-smokers that become smokers for the night.

 

Please explain in a logical, meaningful way why you feel it is your freedom and right to smoke anytime and whenever you feel the need to smoke without the regard of some other patrons whom it may irritate.

Which of us smokers indicated that we felt this was our right?

The only reason I would say I have a right to do that would be to start a flame war. I don't do flame wars.

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Why is it that smoking and drinking seem to go hand-in-hand with swinging?

 

Smokers, you seem to be the majority, Please explain in a logical, meaningful way why you feel it is your freedom and right to smoke anytime and whenever you feel the need to smoke without the regard of some other patrons whom it may irritate.

 

Rett,

 

You pretty much answered your second question with your first question. You also did so with your statement of "Smokers, you seem to be the majority".

 

Now for some facts. I am X smoker. I am not the typical one that gets on smokers though. Laura (My Lovely Wife) still smokes. I smoked for 40 years. The start of 2009 I got very sick and the doctors told my family I was not going to leave the hospital. It was not from my smoking. I made a lier out of them after 21 days in there and checked out. I am older, slower but alive. Also after 21 days without smoking I did not want to smoke anymore. My wife has the right to smoke in our house, she does not. She has the right to smoke in our cars, she does not. It is her choice where she smokes when given the choice. She also does not blow smoke at people not smoking. She has manners.

 

At the club we take care of smoking is allowed in all general area's. She smokes in them. We tried making non-smoking area's and the non-smokers did not use them. Since the majority of the 800 to 1000 people that come there each week are smokers, they can smoke there. At times, the smoke does get bad in the club and I understand when the minority do not like it but I have to run the club in a manner that keeps the masses happy.

 

One problem is that many, not all, non-smokers make demands on everyone to get their way. As the laws that happened in Nevada. Non-Smokers said to save the kids, no more smoking in BARS! :confused: I never saw a lot of kids in bars. The smokers said the bar business would get better because they where all going to support those non-smoking bars. Did not happen in Vegas. Over 200 bars closed down and 1000's of people got put out of work.

 

I understand your desire to question smokers, but it should go the both ways. You do have the choice in life to smoke or not smoke. You also have the choice to go to places that don't allow smoking. Anymore, that is the majority of the swing clubs, bars and other public places in this country.

 

My question for non-smokers would be. What gives you the right to tell business men, club/bar owners who have spent millions of their own dollars that they can not allow smoking in their own businesses?

 

As a non-smoker you would still have the right not to do business with them but that was not good enough, you felt you have the right to dictate to them what they can and can not do in their own business to the point of many of them having to close down.

 

Don't take any of this personal, it is not. It is questions just as you had questions.

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Guest rdy46227
{snip}

Perhaps a better question might be: Why is it that smoking and drinking seem to go hand-in-hand with swinging? What is it about the life style that so many feel the need to smoke to the extent that it takes a knife to cut through the smoke at a club.

{snip}

 

Nicotine is a drug that acts as a stimulant and crosses the blood-brain barrier to affect neurotransmitters directly inside the brain, as well as outside the brain in the CNS and SNS.

 

It is thought that increased levels of dopamine in the reward circuits of the brain are responsible for the euphoria and relaxation.

 

Outside the brain, nicotine initially causes a rapid release of adrenaline, the "fight-or-flight" hormone. Thus nicotine can both invigorate and relax a smoker at the same time.

 

People who smoke, even occasional smokers, are going to light up for a hit of nicotine to improve their general experience. Something similar can be said about booze, though after the first glass the effects generally become negative.

 

In other words, the tobacco experience complements the swing environment quite well (for those who smoke).

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To Vegas Lee:

You are absolutely correct - from an owner's point of view it's just good business not to have to many restrictions imposed against smokers at a club. After all, smoking is legal and it's their choice . Since the smokers constitute the majority of the clientel a club, an owner must provide an atmosphere that will satisfy and bring them back to the club or lose business. It's just good common business sense!

 

You also mention the possibility that many of the patrons at a club may not smoke at home or even in their car, but chose to do so at the club. The question the non-smokers have is - Why is it that the majority of people at a club are smokers? If they choose not to smoke at home, then why do they choose to smoke in a closed area with others around?

 

To RDY46227

Thank you for the reply from one smokers opinion or viewpoint. I was trying to get replies from smokers so that both smokers and non-smokers would better understand why it seems to be that so many swingers are smokers.

You post clearly states your reasons - and is appreciated. Thank you.

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Guest rdy46227
{snip}

To RDY46227

Thank you for the reply from one smokers opinion or viewpoint. I was trying to get replies from smokers so that both smokers and non-smokers would better understand why it seems to be that so many swingers are smokers.

You post clearly states your reasons - and is appreciated. Thank you.

 

Actually, I've never smoked, at least in this life. I will confess that maybe 2 or 3 times in my life I've had a very strong urge to light up. And occasionally (every couple of years) I find myself relaxing and enjoying secondhand smoke. (I actually lived with a mild smoker for many months, and I tolerate friends who smoke because of the friendship.) So the only think I can conceive is other lives bleeding through.

 

I understand smoke as a drug, and I understand why smokers consider it to have a very good effect on themselves. And I understand the addiction part from being with friends and relatives trying to quit. These people have my sympathy and my admiration, especially if successful.

 

But after I get out of a smokey bar, club, meeting, etc. I hate the way I smell, almost to the point of vague nausea. If the world revolved around me, I'd never smell smoke unless the fireplace started smoldering. But all I really ask is a place where I can enjoy myself without a cigarette or cigar ever being lit.

 

Let the world divide itself into (different locations of) those who do and those who don't, and may those who don't please stop trying to eliminate those who do.

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My question for non-smokers would be. What gives you the right to tell business men, club/bar owners who have spent millions of their own dollars that they can not allow smoking in their own businesses?

 

It is my right because it affects my health, and it affects others health who may not partake in such an activity. Your claim that its your business and you can do what you want with it, but if we took your logic to its natural conclusion, it would mean the only places non-smokers could go without smoke are places owned by the government. I wouldn't be able to go out to eat, wouldn't be able to buy clothes, I wouldn't even be able to buy groceries at a grocery store.

 

Also, you seem to forget about all the other things this country says you can't do in your club, like smoke weed, sell crack, employ prostitutes, etc etc. Laws are in place, usually, for the common good. Otherwise we would live by the rule of common greed, whatever is good for business.

 

All of this is ignoring the idea of interconnectedness. That every action we do, no matter how private, affects everyone indirectly.

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Also, you seem to forget about all the other things this country says you can't do in your club, like smoke weed, sell crack, employ prostitutes, etc etc. Laws are in place, usually, for the common good. Otherwise we would live by the rule of common greed, whatever is good for business.

 

 

All the other items you bring up are not legal items. Smoking is legal in this country.

 

I am mostly speaking about bars and clubs. They should have the right to put a sign on their front door stating "Smoking" or "Non-Smoking" then you make your choice.

 

When it is your millions of dollars invested you should have the right to allow legal activity.

 

Letting "tax payers" tell a private business they can not allow legal activity is not something I personally can go along with.

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... things this country says you can't do in your club, like smoke weed, sell crack, employ prostitutes, etc etc. Laws are in place, usually, for the common good.

 

I must disagree, WhatisTruth. The laws that are in place make the situation worse. Among other things, they've created a system wherein the businessmen settle their differences with gunfire. Thousands of teenagers are being killed yearly, as many by crack cocaine as bullets.

 

In my opinion, we must legalize all "Crimes Without Victims," tax them (including the hookers, and other industrial "workers," who would start paying income tax) and use the proceeds to fund Health Care, which would, in turn, treat addicts. Leftover tax proceeds (there would be lots!) could go to education, particularly parents of college students, thus allowing me, at age 71, to really retire. :)

 

Alura

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All the other items you bring up are not legal items. Smoking is legal in this country.

 

I am mostly speaking about bars and clubs. They should have the right to put a sign on their front door stating "Smoking" or "Non-Smoking" then you make your choice.

 

When it is your millions of dollars invested you should have the right to allow legal activity.

 

Letting "tax payers" tell a private business they can not allow legal activity is not something I personally can go along with.

 

Except when laws are passed, it is now illegal activity. The government has long told us when and how to do things. For example, in the majority of places its illegal to drink in public, despite alcohol being legal. Just as it is ok to have sex, unless it is in public (or kids are around). Having sex is legal too.

 

The problem with your solution of posting a sign is that it catters to the common greed (profit) instead of the common good (societal health). Besides that, why should only bars and clubs get to express thier "rights" why not other business owners as well?

 

Rereading that grocery bit made me hungry...time for a late lunch.:facelick:

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Guest rdy46227

Anybody remember prohibition? Legislation can't stop addicted people.

 

The only argument that might even slightly sway me (and I'm an ardent non-smoker) is "good of the commons".

 

(This is the problem where a village grazes it's cattle in a common meadow. In theory, one villager adding one more cow will make a difference the other villagers will be hard put to detect. But if all the villagers added a cow or two, the commons would be destroyed by overgrazing.)

 

The idea of your personal happiness depending on making (or stopping) someone else from doing something will not work.

 

Where do you stop? What happens when your desire conflicts with someone else's?

 

The only solution is to try as hard as possible to allow any behavior which is not directly detrimental to another, aka live and let live.

 

Prohibiting smoking in hospitals is reasonable, as is inside locations where you must appear (court rooms, license bureau).

 

Beyond that, I refer again to the Berkeley method; the owner/operator chooses, posts a sign, and people vote with their feet.

 

If you want a no smoking swing club, open one locally. If it fails from lack of attendance (which the pros here assert will happen) then your attempt to force another local club to go non-smoking is tyrannical.

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The problem with your solution of posting a sign is that it catters to the common greed (profit) instead of the common good (societal health). Besides that, why should only bars and clubs get to express thier "rights" why not other business owners as well?

 

Since I deal in clubs and bars, have the experience in them and have seen what the "law" has done to them, that is where I speak from.

 

Common Greed? If the non-smokers feel as strong as they do then the common greed argument won't work. The Non-Smokers will not go to those businesses and they will go broke if they allow smoking.

 

Instead of giving the business a chance the non-smokers say the bar can not allow smoking yet the non-smokers still did not support the bar. The non-smokers got their way and let the businesses die.

 

 

Now there is another club in Vegas that does not allow smoking inside their club. You can smoke outside. A big part of their crowd is outside. They don't see as many people all week as what we see just on Saturday night at our place. Must be a reason for it. I won't say it is because you can smoke but I have to wonder at times if that is part of it. Their place is nice and it works for them so the non-smoking things does work for them. We just found when we tried, it did not work for us.

 

 

The power of free market does work when there is a free market. When one side sets the rules one side will always fail.

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In DC, VA, and MD there was a lot of bitching from the smokers when the ban against smoking went into effect in each area. However, everyone seems to have adjusted to it. And, a lot of folks who are non-smokers like us now enjoy the clubs. The folks who are really relieved are the staff at the clubs who had to suffer being in the smoke just to have a job.

 

The real problem with smoking is that is that it has an adverse medical effect on those around the smoker. Our business partner's wife, a non-smoker, developed lung cancer from the other women at the Jewish Community Center who smoked. She spent a number of years donating her time to the Center and this is her reward.

 

We are very grateful to the no-smoking in restaurants and club laws.

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The non-smoking ban in restaurants here in Oklahoma seems to have had no ill effect on the number of people who go out to eat. In my favorite Irish Pub the top floor (which can more easily be ventilated) has smoking allowed. It is the part of the bar where one doesn't have to get on a seating list. One simply goes upstairs and waits for a table to be vacated or simply asks someone seated at a larger table than they need if they'll share the table. They almost always will. The end result is that one must wait half-an-hour for a table in non-smoking area or be seated almost immediately upstairs.

 

There also isn't much smoke since fewer than 20% of Oklahomans choose to do so. My guess is that a larger percentage of swingers smoke. If so, it would behoove us to know why. Is it our hedonistic mindset than makes us more prone to indulgence?

 

Alura

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You might be on to something with this:

My guess is that a larger percentage of swingers smoke. If so, it would behoove us to know why. Is it our hedonistic mindset than makes us more prone to indulgence?

 

One thing I do notice at the club is that let's 'be bad' attitude. With people trying to out 'bad' each other with wild behavior and doing shots. I think a lot of people view swinging as they're opportunity to be naughty, bad or a slutty whore. A need to rebel against decency by swinging.

 

For me it is a more hedonistic mindset, it is about maximum pleasure and minimum pain. There's nothing about being bad or naughty, it should all be good. In fact it should be fabulous.

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In fact it should be fabulous.

 

Fortunately, it often is.

 

:)

Alura

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Our favorite club is non-smoking (simply because it's required by the hotel it's held in). At first the owners were worried about how this would affect attendance... if anything it's increased it. They do have a room across from the ballroom that is a smoking room and it seems like a lot of the smokers stay in that room the whole night. So I guess in a way it causes the smokers to find other smokers and vice-versa. Many people have been really happy with the setup.

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According to a recent slate article only about 13% of American's smoke but when you go to a nightclub or swingers club its seems that over half the people there smoke. As we were leaving the local club, a couple leaving about the same time as us commented on how bad the smoke was in the club. They were leaving because they just couldn't stand it. Now I wonder if all the nonsmokers leave early because of it. That might explain why we have so much trouble finding couples that don't smoke at the club.

 

Which got me to thinking, if I went to a swing club nonsmoking would be very high on my desires for a swing club (of course, security, cleanliness and good management also rate high). Are there any nonsmoking swing clubs out there, or is it just a dream at this point?

 

What about you?

 

1. What are your thoughts on a non-smoking swing club? Good, bad or indifferent?

2. If you don't smoke your favorite swing club is smoking, would you go more often or stay longer if it became nonsmoking?

3. If you smoke, would you go less often if your favorite swing club became nonsmoking?

 

Our state has been "smoke-free" for quite awhile now and Mr. Sun and I love it and so do our kids (although, they do sometimes have a tendency to point out how the "air is smelly" when we walk outside and someone is smoking there.)

 

Since our state is smoke-free, we are able to stay longer at swinger clubs or any venue where a swinger party is being held. We're both sensitive to the smoke, Mr. Sun moreso. So, yes, if a swingers club allowed smoking, we have less of a tolerance and will leave earlier--this was the case at the Red Rooster when we visited. The level of smokiness made Mr. Sun's eyes water.

 

If we were to find ourselves at a house party where the hosts allowed smoking in the house, we would probably high-tail it out of there because it's likely that the owner of the house also smokes and would make the house "smelly".

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      (You see someone and you say, "I would like to fuck that person" They look at you and say, " I would like to fuck that person", and the two of you get together and fuck. Both enjoy it, and that is that. Your spouse knows about it and, most of the time, is there to enjoy it with you if not joining in. No jealousies ,no hard feelings, no fights, and most of all, no means no. But in the back of my mind, I kept thinking that I am now a single man in a couple’s lifestyle.)
       
      I was talking to a couple when I looked towards the area that had been set aside for dancing, where I saw Nancy, Joann, and Barbara all dancing together. All three had shed their blouses and were giving one hell of a sexy dance performance. I knew from what I could see from her low-cut blouse that Nancy had a nice set of tits, but to see her dancing topless they were great. They were round and firm with nipples that stood out ¾". At 43 years of age, they were more than likely bought, but real or Memorex, I did not care. I just wanted to suck on them. Her stomach was flat and firm and showed that she took care of herself at the gym. She still had her skirt on, but those long legs and that flat-toned stomach just started me to think how beautiful the meeting place must look.
       
      When the song ended, Nancy walked over to me and put her arms around my neck and kissed me. She looked me in the eyes and said, let's go. I want to have you alone first, and I had no problem with that. We walked down the hall and checked the first two bedrooms and found them occupied. The master bedroom was at the end of the hall, and when we opened the door, we saw Sue and Dan had already gotten there. We started to close the door, and Dan said to come on in. There was more than enough room on the bed; he and Sue only needed half of it.
       
      Nancy put her arms around my neck and kissed me, and whispered that she wanted me naked. At this point, she started to unbutton my shirt. I felt her firm breast pressing against my chest as I ran my hands down her sides. Her skirt had no snaps but was held up by the elastic waistband. It was just a matter of hooking my thumbs under the waistband and stretching it out a little so it would slide down her long legs. Just as I had suspected, she was panty-less. As she undid my pants, I cupped one of her tits in my hand and lowered my mouth to her nipple. My other hand found her wet hot pussy, and I started to finger fuck her with ease. Her hands had pushed my pants down to my knees, and she was stroking my swollen cock with both of her hands. I could hear her breathing getting heavier with each passing moment as I sucked her nipple and fingered her sweet wet hole. She looked me in the eye and pulled my head closer to hers for a long sexual kiss. She started slowly going down to her knees, all the while kissing my chest and stomach. When she reached my now rock-hard shaft, she cupped my balls and the base of my dick in both hands and opened her mouth to take its head into her mouth.
       
      As I stood there getting this magnificent blow-job from this woman, I looked over to the bed. Sue and Dan had moved to the sixty/nine position, and Sue was sucking his cock like she did mine the night before. Dan had his face buried between Sue’s legs, licking her sweet pussy for all its worth. He had his hands spreading it as far as he could to get his tongue in as deep as he could. I remembered just how good Sue’s pussy tasted when she would come, and she always came from a good licking. I wondered just how Nancy’s pussy would taste and did she enjoy it as much as Sue. It would not be much longer before I would find out because of the way she was sucking my dick and watching Sue and Dan, I started to unload in her mouth. My first squirt was deep inside her mouth; the second one she had pulled back but had her mouth open so that it landed in her mouth but mostly on the tongue. As she was swallowing the first two loads, the third hit her closed lips and started to run down her chin. She wiped it off with her finger and then cleaned her finger with her tongue. She stood up and looked me in the eye, and said thank you, we kissed deep and long, and then I told her it was my turn. As she landed down on the bed, I removed my shoes, socks, and pants. She was on her back naked except for her garters and stockings.
       
      I laded down beside her and started to kiss her gently on the neck; slowly, I worked my way down to her nipples, where I sucked and nibbled on each one of them. All the while, I was running my fingers in and out of her hot wet pussy. Her pussy was neatly shaved with just a puff of blond hair left above it. I have always preferred a little hair left instead of an all-shaved pussy, (I wondered if Sue had told her that and she shaved that way just for me). I was working my way down to her honey pot, and she was opening her legs for me. I normally like to work a woman by kissing, nibbling, and sucking on the inside of their legs before I dive into pussy licking. That always seemed to bring their tension up a notch, so when I did go for the gold, they were more than ready for it. With Nancy having her garters and stockings on, that kind of blocked that approach. I soon found out that she did not need that step of foreplay; I also found out that she was anything but a quiet climaxer. I had no sooner started licking, sucking, and nibbling her pussy than she started humping and screaming and cumming. She was begging me to fuck her right then, I needed a little more time to recoup from my climax before I could go on, and she didn’t seem to want to give it to me. I looked from between the legs, and I don’t know if Sue saw the whipped dog look in my eyes or if she was so turned on by Nancy's pleading for a hard fucking or what, but Sue came to my rescue once again.
       
      Sue was on top of Dan, and he was hammering away at her for all he was worth. Sue leaned over and started kissing Nancy and telling her to let it come. I was still down licking her pussy and thinking, "Let this climax run its course, and things will settle down till I recover and can produce again. With Sue's kissing and sucking Nancy's tits and Nancy sucking on Sue’s tits and a double effect. Dan announced that he was coming, and I felt myself coming back into the game. As I slid back up on Nancy to where I could enter her, Sue sat back up on Dan and started riding him hard. She was about to have her own climax and needed to concentrate on that. Just as I put the head of my dick to Nancy’s pussy she said NO, not this way; she pushed me off and got on her hands and knees and said do me from behind; I like it this way the best.
       
      I have no problem with doggie style, so I got behind her and guided the head of my dick into her pussy. I normally like to start slowly, but Nancy told me to do it hard and fast. So I jammed it into the hilt. She instantly started to rock back and forth, and it took a couple of seconds to get into her rhythm, but I got there and was on the in-stroke when she was rocking back and on the outstroke when she was going forward. Like I said before, you know when Nancy comes, everybody knows when Nancy comes, and it did not take long for her to come doggie style.
       
      After she came down from her climax, her body just went limp, and she sank onto the bed face down. Ok, I understand about fast climaxes; been there and done that a time or two myself, but this is the first time I had experienced it happening with the woman I was with. Normally it’s the man that has this happening. I lay down beside her and put my arm around he, and kissed her on her shoulder. I can hear and feel her breathing hard, but that is all the response I get. I look over and Sue is still riding Dan’s dick. I see that glazed-over look in her eyes, one that I have seen many times before, and I know that she won’t last much longer. Just then, I see Dan arch his back and drive into Sue as deep as he can go, his hands are pulling Sue down onto his shaft, and I know that he is releasing his load into her. Sue is wide-eyed and tells him Yes, give it to me, and I know from being there that she has also reached her climax. I lay there and watched her rock back and forth as Dan kept his back arched to give her as much dick as he could. I know the feeling of her pussy muscles on a dick, and I know what he is feeling at this moment. They are constricting and relaxing, constricting and relaxing as she rocks back and forth. Milking every bit of his juice out that they can. I watch as they slow down, and then Sue collapses onto Dan’s chest; she starts that silly giggle that lets you know that you did a good job.
       
      Sue rolled onto her back next to Nancy and looked at me, and asked if I was enjoying myself, and I told him yes. Dan said he needed a drink and asked if any of us wanted one. Sue wanted a margarita, Nancy wanted a glass of ice water, and I said I could use a beer. As Dan was off to get the drinks, the three of us sat up in the bed, the women sat cross-legged, and I just slid up between them and used the headboard as a backrest. I could smell the must of just fucked pussy in the air. There were two women sitting crossed-legged with their pussies open for all to see, and I still had a hard-on. Sue spoke first and said to Nancy, " Did I not tell you he was a good fuck or not" At that point, I could have crawled under the bed, except that Sue was now rubbing my hard dick. Nancy agreed and said that she can’t wait to go again. Sue said that the night was young, but Nancy would just have to wait her turn now because she was next. Thank god Dan showed up with the drinks.
       
      The four of us sat there talking and sipping our drinks. We could hear the party going on in the other part of the house with the music and the occasional orgasm from one of the partygoers or another. Sue asked if we knew where Don was, and Dan said he saw him with Joann, to which Sue said, "Well, he will be occupied for a while". All this time, Sue was stroking my hard cock, then she said that it looked like I was ready to go again, and so was she. Nancy asked her if we could all do it like they did it at the last party. Sue looked at me and then back at Nancy and said that she thought it would be all right. I must have had a questioning look on my face because Sue told me that I would defiantly like this.
       
      Sue had me sit on the side of the bed with my feet on the floor. She then turned around and straddled me backward. I felt her guide my dick into her pussy as she sat down on my lap. " As exciting as the unknown is when having sex with a new partner, it is just as exciting as being in the know and having sex with someone that you have been with before. You know just what they like, and they know what trips your button; Sue knew just what to do to trip my button." She started to rotate her hips to give my dick that just-right grinding. Feeling her slow humping up and down along with the rotation was driving me insane. About that time, I felt a tongue wrapping around my balls and work up my shaft to where I was buried into Sue’s wet box. I looked around Sue to see Nancy on her hands and knees licking not only my balls and dick but also Sue’s wet pussy, and Dan was behind Nancy just fucking away. Sue started to rotate and moan, which caused me to shove up harder; Nancy was licking and sucking faster, which made Sue moan and rotate faster. It was like a snowball rolling downhill. The more it went on, the faster it got. I don’t know what was going on with Dan, and I did not care. I know that I came harder and longer into Sue’s pussy than I can ever remember doing. I remember falling back onto the bed with Sue laying on top of me and still feeling a tongue licking the both of us, and then I heard a far-off scream that said fuck me fuck yes fuck me.
       
      Sue was pulling on my arms and telling me it was time that we rejoined the party. We walked down the hall naked and into the den. We went to the bar, and I sat down on one of the stools. Sue went and got us both a drink and stood between my legs with her arms around my neck. She asked me what I thought of Nancy, and I told her that she was definitely different than any woman that I knew. She said that there was a long story behind that and she would tell me later, but not tonight, I laid my head down between her breast, and she was holding me and rubbing the back of my head when Don came walking up to join us.
       
      Don sat down on a stool, and Sue went over and put her arms around him and asked if he was having fun; I said that he looked like he had been road hard and put up wet. To which he came back with a one-word answer. " Joann". Sue and I just laughed, and I asked if she was still a whirlwind in bed, and he said that she was a man killer if you let her.
      Sue kissed us both and said that we men better get used to the whirlwinds because they are going to rule the world someday.
       
      Note from Jay:
      I have tried to express some of my feelings, thoughts, and happenings into the stories about how I got back into swinging after Dee’s death. I know that it is not your typical swing stories that you are used to reading here. I know that I have brought up couples out of the blue for those that have not been on this site for very long. There are stories posted by " Jay and Dee" that tells how we got started in the swinging lifestyle, how we found out that Don and Sue were swingers, and stories that were milestones in Dee’s and my journey into this wonderful lifestyle.
       
      A lifestyle that I thought had ended with Dee's death. A lifestyle of freedom, pleasure, understanding, and pure joy that I thought I would never be a part of again if it were not for Sue. Some might read into these stories that I have an infatuation with Sue. That is not true. I love Sue. If you go back and read The Surprise, you will know that I have known Sue since we were in elementary school. Her older brother was my best friend until we graduated high school; now, her husband is my best friend.
       
      If it were not for Sue and Don standing by me and pulling me out of my depression, getting me back into not only the lifestyle but life itself did I meet Pam.
       
      Pam is another story all together
       
      I lost Dee in 2004, and the stories about how I got back into the swing happened in 2006. In future stories, I will try not to go back too far into the past, but sometimes my thoughts go there, to a time, a place, or a person that is so important to me that I must bring it up for the story context.
    • By Spoomonkey
      I don't remember - in detail - just what it was that was said between myself and Marilyn that convinced her to swing. I know that I didn't discover the hidden key to the floodgate. But now, as I sit here thinking of her, picturing the passion on her face as she jerks another man's cock, I am flooded with excitement about the next time. But this is a story about our first time.

      Most people are sexual caterpillars, humping through life, eating off the same leaf, and waiting to be taken as lunch by whatever bird it is that finds us delectable. Some of us evolve. I've had the pleasure of watching Mari become a truly stunning sexual creature - a truly amazing phoenix on fire. I recall the long and sometimes frustrating 'raccoon stage' from the first talk to the first play. I remember waiting like a child for Christmas - eager and smiling, hopeful and naive. And I remember watching Mari emerge.

      It was a Friday night - our second at a club. I am not sure how many expectations either of us had - we'd promised ourselves not to 'expect.' We arrived early - when the TVs had not yet flipped over to porn movies and still played the Discovery Channel. Pretzel baskets not yet out, Mari and I found a place at the liquor-less bar. Our first time at a club, we went with a couple that we were friends with. They'd monopolized us that night, and we wanted to branch out - to meet new friends - to try new things. Nothing against them, we thought the world of those two, but we were ready to fly solo. So we waited. Unsure of how to talk to anyone - unsure of what to do next. I think we clung to that bar for an hour, Mari in her brown mini and sheer black top, me in a stew of nervousness that I hadn't felt since junior high. Eyes were on Mari - I could feel that. Not at all unexpected with her long legs riding a lucky barstool, gorgeous and generous breasts threatening to pour from her low top, bright green eyes dancing between a perfect smile and brown/red hair that could melt any man. I remember watching people watching us, watching them stare shamelessly at her.

      The club filled quickly that night - couples made their way to familiar cliques as a flood of single men made helpless attempts to get in on the play. I didn't know what we were looking for, but I was hopeful that we'd find it - so I took Mari by the hand and decided to explore. The barstools were doing nothing but putting our backs to the crowd. I wasn't surprised when a clumsily discreet gaggle of singles followed my Mari like puppies as we slowly made our way from room to room. Eventually, we found ourselves on the 'party floor' with a half dozen single men who tried so very hard to look casual but were obviously hoping that their choice of clothes or hairstyle had been the perfect one - and that Mari would snatch them up before they knew what hit them. Feeling a bit ornery, I leaned back against the wall, my beer in one hand, and whispered to Mari, "I want you to go down on me." I think the request shocked her a bit.

      "Right. Right now? Right here?" I could tell that she was feeling like a bad girl - she had the look, the walk. I knew she wanted to play - and I could think of no better way than to tease a crowd of men.

      "Yes," I said, smiling. "Right here and right now." I reached down to unzip myself as she dropped to her knees in front of me. My cock had been hard all day, knowing that tonight we'd be here - chasing the 'unexpected' - and it was obvious that Mari shared my excitement as she took me all the way down with one eager move. Her tongue danced on my shaft as her head bobbed happily. Her expert hands worked on what little cock she couldn't take in, and twelve eyes on six single men ate every movement. I was - for a short time - king of the 'party floor' as the most incredible woman in the club sucked my cock in front of a half dozen. I realized that as incredible as this was - this spotlight on my wife's giftedness - it was just the first step, a cracking of the egg, so to speak - the cocoon was just starting to open. Mari gobbled me with abandon, surprisingly unashamed, wonderfully aware of nothing but her husband's eager erection and approaching release. I sipped my beer and grinned as hungry eyes locked on the back of Mari's head. I could have watched that scene all night long, but it was far too early to 'cash in my chips.' Besides - I got to take this beauty home - so I helped her to her feet as she wiped the corners of her mouth. I think I saw a blush then, but it could have been desire. Either way, it didn't slow her down. I was ready to head downstairs and leave this group to their own devices, but a conversation about something - I don't remember what - kept me in place.

      Mari was approached by a single guy, and I remember thinking that it would be good for her to flirt. So - I turned my attention to whatever meaningless banter I was sharing - and left Mari to her fun. I don't know how long I talked - but I remember turning to look at Mari and the one guy with balls enough to approach her. And was surprised to see them kissing deeply, his hand enjoying her perfect breast. I processed a momentary jealousy. Who wouldn't be jealous of a woman as beautiful as Marilyn? What man in his right mind would offer such a perfect woman to the wiles of desperate single men? The kind of man who is so secure in his soulmate's love that he knows that no one will ever touch her heart just by groping her boob. And with that, I was over it. And my wicked smile returned.

      "Do I need to go get supplies?" I asked as I walked up behind Mari.

      "Hmmm?" She asked, somewhat dreamily, obviously ready to try her first threesome.

      "Supplies. Condoms." I said, trying not to kill the moment.

      "They're downstairs." Mari looked at her new friend, David, who was obviously willing. She smiled and nodded.

      "Okay," I said. "But here are the rules while I'm gone." I have an alpha male personality when it comes to swinging - provider, protector, top dog. "Just talk. No hands - no kissing - while I'm gone." Then I looked at David. "Break a rule, I break an arm." I think he knew I meant it.

      His nervous, stuttering, "Sure," gave me the assurance I needed to head downstairs. I didn't remember the walk to the locker room being so long, but the anticipation seemed to stretch the halls and stairways. But soon, I was back with an overly optimistic fist full of condoms and a hard-on that made it hard to walk. David and Marilyn were talking innocently, leaning against the wall - but seeing me was all it took for talk to end. Mari took David's hand and led him to a private room; I pushed the door closed as we entered, waving at the five guys who looked disappointed that we weren't going to put on a show.

      David wasted little time pulling Mari's breasts free and sucking on her long nipples. His style was rough, but Mari seemed to love the feel of this stranger's tongue and gently nipping teeth. I knelt behind her, pushing her skirt around her hips, and flicked her ass with my tongue. I slipped two fingers in her dripping pussy and felt her body jerk at the anticipated intrusion. Her hips rocked against my fingers and tongue as David pulled off Mari's top and bra, spilling her breasts into his hands and waiting mouth. Mari rubbed David's cock through his slacks, eager to find out just what she'd gotten herself into. Our collective passions blurred the room as hands un-hooked, unzipped, un-buckled, and soon the only clothes left were Mari's black garter and stockings. David had taken to his knees, taking his rough style of play to Mari's tender box as Mari resumed the head we'd started in the common area - her passion making her suck even harder, with more abandon. I thrust into her mouth gently, knowing that in her current state, she couldn't focus enough to keep me from going too deep. I watched her perfect tits roll as her body rocked on David's aggressive tongue. I switched places with David, letting him enjoy Mari's mouth for the first time. Mari gave a perfect, eager head, and I knew David was in for a treat - but I wanted my time with my wife's perfect pussy. Her long lips and deep folds are the perfect play place for big boys, and my tongue traced her outer lips through the gentle maze that leads to her dripping entrance and tingling clit. I slipped my fingers inside of Mari, curling them gently to find that magical-mythical spot that always seems to make a good orgasm a screaming one, and my tongue flicked gently at her oh-so-ready clit. I looked up to see David fucking Mari's mouth - and Mari thrusting back hungrily. I heard her cock-filtered moans as I brought her to the brink of orgasm. I quickened my tongue and my inner stroking, and Mari's mouth popped off of David's shaft. Her fist pumped him purposefully, but her eyes and attention were now focused on my face, pressed against her pussy. Her hips bucked with the beginnings of her orgasm, and her moans turned to screams as she came against my tongue. Mari fucked my fingers powerfully, her pussy sucking and pulling them deeper inside, and she threw her head back into the pillow and let out a long "YES!" as a wave overcame her.

      David knelt beside her, a stunned look on his face. "That was hot." Mari laughed at his grasp of the obvious as she pulled her knees together and her legs up - but we weren't going to let her off that easily. "Be gentle," I said as David went back down, and I brought my throbbing cock to Mari's mouth. I've always loved the way that Mari says thanks for a job well done - and tonight was no exception. David's tongue brought Mari over the edge two more quick times as she sucked my cock. Her body shivered weakly as the first orgasm had taken so much out of her. She moaned around my width but never let me go until her desperation got the best of her.

      "Fuck me." She said, her voice breathy, "Fuck me, please." I took her first, as David's cock hung in Mari's face, rubbing against her cheek as she thrust her body back against me. I pushed her legs to her chest as I buried my cock deeply into her. Her heat was tremendous, her body on fire as it lived out a fantasy it was so reluctant to even admit. David watched as I took my wife hard, thrusting deeply and angling my body to hit her just right. Mari gritted her teeth as she let out a strained moan, her fourth orgasm coming as a surprise - short but powerful. I pulled out quickly, knowing that there was one other thing that Mari wanted to try before we'd be able to call this a night. I lay against the wall as Mari got to her knees. She sucked hard as David pushed into her for the first time. It was her first 'extra' cock, and she seemed to shake from head to toe. "Is he in?" I asked, wanting her to process the reality of this moment. "Mmmm-Hmmm," she groaned as he pounded her. David fucked my beautiful wife hard from behind, thrusting deeply and quickly, racing towards an orgasm that had such a gorgeous build-up. And he reached that place far too quickly.

      "Where do you want him to cum?" I asked, stroking Mari's hair. "I want to see it," she said, her tongue flicking the head of my cock. "I want him to cum all over me." David responded to her wishes, pulling out and removing his spent condom. Mari rolled over on her back, pushing her breasts together and urging him to cover them. He had no problem doing so. David's excitement was apparent as jet after jet of his hot load landed on Mari's perfect tits.

      "Oh, god, yes," she cooed as he came. David let out one last grunt as his body jerked, and one last long stream of cum dripped onto my wife. I kissed Mari - realizing that I had seen her emerge. My perfect butterfly, covered with another man's seed. David collapsed at the end of the bed as Mari and I wrapped our hearts tightly around each other. We basked in the afterglow of an incredible fantasy, unaware that, for us, the night was young. We dressed, David and Mari kissed one last time, and then we left the room for the next adventuresome group.

      We fully expected to leave soon thereafter. Instead, almost unbelievingly, the stars aligned, and we had another encounter.

      Mari went to the bar, still sexily disheveled, and started talking to a single woman that we had met earlier, helping her fend off a torrent of attention, gladly taking on some for herself. Knowing she was having fun, I left her alone while I went to the restroom.

      I normally don't strike up conversations at the urinal, but all rules have exceptions.

      "I'm not gay," I said to the guy spilling beer one stall over, "but that is a really nice shirt."

      I wouldn't have said it if I hadn't meant it. Dark blue flames on white silk. Sharp as a switchblade.

      "Thanks," He said. "My wife bought it. I don't remember where."

      "Well - it's a great-looking shirt."

      The conversation eroded as our bathroom purposes came to an end, and we awkwardly took turns with the soap dispenser. He left before my paws were dry, and as I wiped the last of the evidence on my jeans, I walked out to put what I thought would be the final hit on my wife.I was quite wrong.

      Mr Nice Shirt was in the hallway with a gorgeous blond - tall and thin, with stunning blue eyes and long legs on high heels.

      "Hey, hon." he said, "where did you get this shirt? This guy likes it."

      She told me - but hell if I remember. I was captivated by her. Where she bought the shirt went in one ear and out the other, but her, I was drinking in till I reached the bottom of the glass. It was a nice shirt - but she was significantly nicer. I watched her lips as she talked and wondered what they tasted like; I watched her chest when she paused - also wondering what it tasted like. Soon the shirt was forgotten.

      But - I found out later - they thought I was a single, which wasn't their thing - and they excused themselves. I made my dejected way back to Mari - still with her single friend - still at the center of a crowd. I walked to the center and kissed her hard, because I could, and whispered in her ear, "Are you ready to go?" She nodded and told me she needed to check her hair before she did. I wasn't the only one who watched her walk to the restroom - perfect hips massaging the inside of her brown suede skirt. I sat at the bar, watching what passed for porn on the satellite feed, and waited...And waited...And realized I wasn't enjoying the porn enough to not be worried about my wife...I wandered through the club, weaving my way between connections being made and broken - singles getting lucky or rejected - women being fondled or ignored... The witching hour had arrived, and folks were grouping off with the hopes that productive conversations weren't about to produce wilted results. And in the bathroom door, Mari had become the target of Mr Cool-Shirt and his incredible wife. They stood in a tight but respectful group, chittering like old friends... I watch Mari laugh at some witty thing and then look up to see me walking her way.

      "That's my husband," she said, maybe a bit too proudly, and the blond woman whom I'd already memorized turned and smiled - wickedly surprised if that is a workable combination. A three-way conversation in the door of the women's room became a spirited four-way as we realized that - not only was I, not a single guy, we all had much more than that in common; two pairs of soulmates on different planes of experience. Best friends who do everything together - who were about to drift upstairs...

      They had been to many clubs and had much background in the lifestyle, and as we made our way upstairs, they shared themselves in a way that makes the lifestyle so much more than sex. We drifted from room to room, listening to them talk about their "hobby" and how they survived within it. For a moment, the idea of "playing" with our new friends disappeared as these gorgeous people became so incredibly fascinating. It seemed like every line of conversation revealed more in common, more useful advice, more to like...And then she closed the door...

      "I like you guys," Kim - this gorgeous blond said, her voice going from friendly to lusty. "Let's play."

      Mari and I snapped back to reality quickly. We were in a swing club, and we were not going home anytime soon... I didn't need to look at Mari to know that she was okay with this. I'd watched her as she watched Joe's lips move when he talked. I had seen her smile when he touched her shoulder. And I had absolutely nothing to think about as Kim lay on the bed, smiling and lifting her legs to show a shaved and pantiless play area.

      "What do you say?" She asked, staring at me hypnotically.

      Nothing... There was nothing I could say. I was hers - but better yet, she was about to be mine. Joe sat on a chair in the corner of the room - thinking, I suppose, that he might watch for a while. But Mari was having none of that, straddling his lap and wrapping her tongue around his. Kim lay on her back, and I ran my hands down her legs, lifting her feet and helping her with the boots that she wasn't going to be needing for a while. Her long thin legs were, on their own, plenty to enjoy - but when the boots were shed, my hands wandered higher as I slid onto the bed with her, kissing her gently at first - enjoying her soft but expert tongue. Her hands made short work of my belt as mine found her small, tight breasts. She seemed eager to catch up with Mari, who had quickly moved to a kneel in front of Joe and was blowing him madly - her head bobbing furiously.

      I didn't object and let her push me over to my back. My eyes caught Joe's, and he smiled widely, dazed but certainly feeling every stroke of Mari's expert tongue. Mari worked his shaft with one tight fist and had pushed the blue flamed shirt up to his strong chest. She was moaning around him - and he encouraged her. The sounds were nearly as hot as the visual of my beautiful wife gobbling our new friend with such abandon. I could have lost myself watching the two of them, just experiencing the pleasure my wife was giving another man, but I was soon pulled expertly out of the moment as bright blue eyes looked up at me past short blond hair, and a wet tongue flicked between a wicked grin and eagerly tasted the tip of my cock...I looked down at Kim as she rolled her tongue around the head of my cock, seeming to savor the taste. Her eyes locked on mine, and her smile never failed......until she took me into her mouth, slowly swallowing half of me and then pulling me out just as deliberately. I groaned, body twitching and cock responding to her attentions.

      "You like that?" she asked, a trail of my excitement still leading to her lips.I just swallowed and grinned - and she correctly took that as a "yes". Her eyes finally left mine as she took me again, this time with abandon. Her tongue danced around my cock as her lips tightly massaged my shaft. Her hands jerked me and my hips rocked slightly, finding her manic rhythm. I closed my eyes and enjoyed her expertise, my fingers twisting in her short hair. I could feel her taking me deeper until it seemed the head of my cock was so deep in her that I could almost feel it with the hand that was on the back of her head. Her warmth was complimented by a perfect wetness. She stroked me with one hand as her other hand massaged my balls - coaxing my cum from them - eager for a taste of her good work. I heard a squeal and looked up just in time to see a naked Mari tossed onto the bed beside us. Joe was naked as well - his tall, thin frame sporting a desperate erection. He dropped to the bed between Mari's legs and began to kiss her breasts, one after another, commenting loudly on her large, long nipples. Kim was looking over, obviously admiring them herself. She looked up at me, her lips still around my excitement, her face flushed. I smiled at her and nodded - unable to ask her if she wanted what Mari was about to be getting... Somehow she read me and nodded back - letting me go with a gentle pop - and climbed up on the bed, shedding what little clothing she still had on. I pulled off my shirt and settled between her legs.

      The wives were now on the bed, lying side by side, with two enthusiastic husbands now heading south hungrily. Kim's pussy was perfectly shaved with small lips and a perfect clit. I licked gently at first, tasting her fully... This was the first pussy I'd tasted since my marriage, and I was going to enjoy it fully. I slipped my hands beneath her ass to lift her slightly, angling her just right... And sunk my tongue deeply into her, tasting her as she tightened around the intrusion. She whimpered slightly and bucked - and I lost myself... My fingers swam in and out of her as my tongue found every unique spot that seemed to make her jerk with electricity. Her eyes were clamped shut as I ate her, and her hands gripped my head harder and more desperately, soon governing my attentions to just her clit as she climbed higher... Closer to the edge of orgasm. I heard Mari scream as she came, thrashing her hips forcefully against Joe's face, forcing him to hang on... Kim heard her, too, and seemed to catch Mari's orgasm just as Mari was coming down... One loud "OHH!" was all she moaned as her body spasmed beneath my feasting tongue. She jerked hard, holding my face tightly to her and riding her orgasm out against my tongue. I held her thighs as she began to land. She slid her hands to my cheeks and pulled herself to me. "My god," was all she said before she kissed me and pulled me back to the bed.

      Joe was on top of Mari, thrusting his fingers into her roughly, and Kim held me as we watched Mari cum again. Mari's vocal aerobics shook the walls again as she came a second time, right on top of her first one. She seemed to cum for minutes before she finally stopped thrusting her hips against Joe's aggressive hand.

      "Wow," Kim said, looking at me. "Is she always this loud?"

      "I'd like to think so," I replied, smiling.

      "I have no doubt, then."

      Kim grinned as she kissed me, pushing me to my knees. She crawled in front of me and took me in her mouth again, egging me on to thrust. I did so - watching as Mari laid Joe on the bed and then knelt between his legs again. I grabbed Kim's perfect ass with both hands and pushed forward gently, barely containing my arousal as Mari began to stroke Joe's thick cock.I heard Kim sucking me wetly, accepting my thrusts as Joe moaned with approval as Mari gave him a masterful hand job, puckering her lips around the head of his cock as she stroked him. My head swam for ten minutes, watching my wife and feeling Joe's. I was near the edge when Joe screamed out his arrival. Kim flipped around quickly, eager to watch her husband's pleasure, and slid a hand down to cup his balls just as he erupted. His first shot a foot into the air. Mari moaned, "YESSS!" as he came - excited at the sight of his orgasm. His hips thrust slightly as the rest of his orgasm ran down his cock and over Mari's still-pumping fist.

      He lay there - satisfied - and Kim turned, grinning, back to me. The only difference is that this time - so did Mari. I had four lustful eyes looking at me hungrily, and I knew that one of my favorite fantasies was going to come true. I was pushed back into the pillow and watched as a blond and brunette devoured my cock - neither of them losing steam. One would suck my balls while the other pistoned on my hot shaft - then they'd switch - dancing their tongues up either side of me as they went... "This is a vision you'll never forget," Joe chattered - coming back to his senses. I quietly agreed with him, watching as they pleasured me - unable to drink it in enough. Just the sight was enough to make me cum... The sensation of two talented tongues, two eager mouths, brought me closer to the edge than I ever thought possible... Joe seemed to agree, now standing at the side of the bed stroking a resurrected erection. But - I was the first to see them kiss...And it was almost too much... Kim and Mari's tongues soon discovered each other and left my cock to pursue each other. I was remarkably okay with that. Kim and Mari's passionate lip lock was more than Joe could handle.

      "Oh my god," he said to Mari. "I had no idea you were into that."

      "I wasn't," Mari said truthfully - and then quickly returned to what she swears was one of the best kissers she'd ever known. I joined Joe in the perverse ritual, not caring if they ever touched me again - as long as they didn't stop touching each other. Their hands fondled each other, their tongues twisted together... And the room seemed to heat up by twenty degrees.

      I'd never thought I'd see my wife so wild for another woman, but there they were, wrapped together, making out like high school kids. The scene proved to be too much, and Joe yelled out Mari's name. Mari moved over beneath him, her tongue out and eager, just as Joe came again. If it is possible, his second orgasm seemed larger than his first, streaming into Mari's open mouth in jet after jet. And that was enough for me... I knelt over Kim and let go of her waiting tongue. She excitedly swallowed what she caught - what she didn't streamed down her cheeks as I jerked out the last of my orgasm and collapsed beside her...I remember Joe leaving and coming back with a glass of pop for all of us to share, but for the life of me, I don't remember much else. We all lay together for a while - talking again like old friends and laughing. The biggest difference this time was being able to watch breasts jiggle with every well-told joke or story.

      We exchanged e-mails, hugs, and kisses... But I wasn't offered the shirt...When we finally left - the club owner was cleaning up, barely beating the sun, which would be showing itself soon. One of the staff smiled at us and said somewhat meekly, "You guys sounded great." I suppose she's right - a perfect encounter inspires some wonderful loudness. The night was a surprise from the start - we'd done more than we'd ever expected and made friends on top of it. And it was one of those friendships that inspired me to surprise Mari with one last step in her now complete emergence.
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