Friendship, yes or no?

I have been reading some of the threads on the forum and I have the same sort of problem with my wife! Friendship! Is it needed? I don't understand what friendship has to do with swinging??? "Sympathy", yes, "Physical attraction", yes, "Lust" yes.

I look at it this way. I want to still my lust and at the same time bring something different into our sex life!!! I am not looking for friends or for a relationship with them!! My wife has a different view. She wants a friendship with the people we are looking at swinging with! But to me, you can't have both! There will be no doubt exceptions to the rule, but they won't be very many such friendships out there!

She thinks I am heartless but I look at it this way. They want to use me and her to satisfy their lust, and we want to do the same (providing we get that far). I am not out there promising any kind of future with them, nor would I tell them things they want to hear just to get them to swing with us.

We have been married 23 years and my wife is my friend. I don't need anyone else as a friend, and to be honest, I don't want or need another friend!

Do you all really think you need to have to have friendship in order to swing with the other party? And whatever the answer is, please explain if possible why?

I look forward to your replies!

I think there are both - the friendships and what I'd call the 'one night stand'. To each their own - some people prefer the friendships, others, like you it seems, prefer the 'one night stand'.

There have been quite a few threads about this topic

This thread had a poll about it too, and you'll see that about one third of the responders prefer the friendship route, one third prefer the one night stand, and about one third go both ways (no pun intended).

This thread asks almost the same question you did.

Read through those threads and you'll see that you are not alone in your thoughts, nor is your wife. Your 'problem' is that the two of you disagree, so some compromise will have to be reached.

We have tendencies towards both ends of this spectrum. We truly enjoy the 'one night stand' for sex only. And we've met some wonderful couples that we consider friends.

Sarah

Sarah,

Many thanks for links to the other threads!! They were a great help to me.

I don't have a problem meeting couples first to see if we all fit, it's the idea of making them into friends that worries me. To me friends means emotions and that always ends up in being hurt in someway.

I don't want my Wife hurt. We do disagree on this and she won't compromise on this, for her friendship first and that's final. She seems to want friendship, trust (to me these are basics for a relationship), and then we'll see what happens. But I am not into waiting for 6 months to find out if were going to have sex or not!!

We met a couple and 3 of us are fine and the Mrs isn't sure and wants further meets to see if she likes him or not! Not my idea of swinging. By the time we do get a yes or no the spark will have gone out... no spark no fun...

At the moment we seem to be going from one problem to the next even though we do talk about everything beforehand.

Thanks again Sarah!! You're a star

We need to at least have something in common with the people we play with. For instance, we love fine dining and the theater and would not be comfy with a couple that was only interested in motorcycles and hot dogs with chili. (Please, no flame from the couples that enjoy their Harley. Notice I said "only.")

We feel that "friendship" takes an investment in time and effort but great, hot sex can happen on the first or second meeting with a couple.

And don't forget the "chemistry" - that immeasurable something that attracts you to another someone or two. That certain spark must be there. That spark is noticeable usually from the time you meet.

Having said all that, we do feel that the best swinging relationship is to have someone that you can be friends with and do thing with outside the play room. But we're just talking about the start here, I think.

We are looking for friendships as well, but I don't think we're going to invest six months of non-playing pursuit to achieve that goal. If we hit it off, great! If not, I think we could still play and leave friendship out of it.

I guess we are looking for a core group of friends, and then the rest will merely become acquaintances.

Ahhhhh! THE question.

When we first got started in the lifestyle, I thought that I needed some kind of emotional connection with the guy who would be fvcking me. Friendship, love, SOMETHING! My husband reminded me that we were in this for the physical gratification and not to fall in love. Of course there needs to be a physical attraction for me, however I already have a best friend, lover, and husband. Shortly thereafter I read an ad on SLS that stated: "We don't want to know your Zodiac sign, your favorite color, or the life's trivilations of your kids!" That too....... reminded me of where "home" is.

So, I'm saying that we do not have to be "friends" with anyone in order the fvck them. It IS however, nice to have a partner(s) with whom that is more than a fvck-buddy. Still our support system is at home. Fvcking is totally separate.

DarkBlue,

Something you may want to keep in mind is that some(NOT ALL)women need a connection of some sort. I like the idea of having friends within the lifestyle. I'm not looking for monogomy with one or two couples, and I wouldn't object to a "hey your cute, lets go find a room quick" situation.

But I am guessing by what you said that you are new to the lifestyle. In that case maybe the friend issue is more of a safety one for her. She may grow out of needing friends or you may like having friends.

Right now, I am uncomfortable with just a one night stand with a semi stranger. I am at the point where I need the friendship first. I have made plenty of friendships within the lifestyle. If I have a question or concern I have people who know me in and out (that can be taken two ways, take it which ever way you want) They can give me the answer the I need and one that best suits me. they after all know my fantasies.

I tend to ramble so please try and understand what I am trying to say.

She may need the security of knowing these people. A lot of my insecurities subside once I get to know the person I am dealing with.

For instance, I am easily threatened by red heads. I have NO IDEA why. But I meet a wonderful redhead who was a ball of fire, I fell in love with this woman. She is beautiful, incredibly sexual, and funny as all hell. I would not hesitate to play with them now.

Think about, let me know if I made any sense to you at all.

Friendship - yes AND no. Can I play with people that I'm not friends with, yes. Do I want to keep everyone at arms length and actively PREVENT friendships? No.

J. has the same issue when we first started swinging. He wanted to keep everyone at arms length and just consider them our living, breathing, walking, talking, sex toys. Now, we have one couple that we're actually really good friends with. We hang out. We go shopping. We go to lunch. We talk to each other about our families and our problems. A lot of this has to do with the fact that she and I (I am the F half) are basically the same in many aspects of our life and we clicked emotionally from the first meet. I can trust her, and she knows that she can trust me. And she's sexy It's great. And our single M that occassionally joins us has been J.'s best friend since elementary school.

Your wife may need the friendship aspet. Why is that so scary? In my honest opinion, it sounds like you're terrified of putting yourself out there and being social. You're willing to be sexual, but forget anything else. True, some couples are out to just "use" you...but many are really really good people too. If you find a couple that your wife really likes, maybe you should put yourself out there and try to be friendly atleast, if not friends.

I, like some of the others, am not looking for friendships and I am willing to play without that type of relationship, but I am not holding it back at arms length either. In order for me to play, I need to feel something. Whether its that warm fuzzy feeling or that HOT ball of fire. It depends on the people I am with. Each couple we have played with or met has made us feel comfortable or uncomfortable based on different things. One couple we met we actually hang out with in vanilla ways when the kids are around, and not so vanilla when the kids aren't. They have become great friends, but we had been playing as well up to that point.

Talk some more with your wife. Explain it to her. It sounds like maybe there is an insecurity there on both of your sides. A small one. Hers for NEEDING a deep friendship, and yours for feeling like it would start a relationship that might run too deep. Perhaps her insistence on a friendship is not the deep relationship you are understanding it to be. Or perhaps it is, and polyamory is more her style. I am sure everything is going to work out wonderfully.

I think that becoming friends first, getting to know each other, light flirting going to secuctive flirting, is a most enjoyable foreplay in itself. And, I enjoy an extended foreplay.

Of the six couples that my wife and I have swung (is that a correct word?) with the most beautiful wife of them all wasn't my friend first, and I enjoyed my times with her the least because of it.

We're all different and we all enjoy swinging differently. Maybe, Darkblue, you and your wife can seek out similar couples and you and the wife can go right at it while your wife and the other husband can take their time?

Darkblue,

It may worth to talk to your wife about WHY she's asking for friendship first, because the whole "friendship" thing is a blurry bag of cats hiding fears and needs (even when genuine and valid ones).

There are people that currently use the word "friendship" in the same way they would in a vanilla context. But I believe a lot of swingers, moreover the new ones, require the chance to meet people and have enough time granted as to be able to tell if they can meet their comfort level without being pushed or talked into doing something they may regret later. Its an emotional safety measure.

The problem here is, since swinging is a whole new context, they use the word "friendship" because that's the only sort of relationship they know from their previous experience in the vanilla world that resembles what they require as this safety measure.

IMO, what often happens is they take some time to find that comfort level, and since the desire for sex is there, it doesn't mean 6 months, but more likely a couple of dates, and once safe enough, that's it about the "friendship first".

So, what I believe is important for you two here is to forget for a moment about the whole friendship concept, and ask your wife to make it explicit the features she requires from the other people and their attitudes in order to feel safe. After making this explicit, she still may want to develop friendship or not, but in any case this would be e great clue to tell apart this wish for friendship from the real requirements for swinging.

After all, the friendship is something that isn't just up to you two to develop with other people: those others feelings are involved as well and even when they may ask for "friends first", they may not want to be friends of you as the relationship evolves.

So, even if you give up, going after such a friendship, you two may end up alone again, without those supposed friends that you had sex with. And this is an important distinction for your wife's expectations (you're afraid of she being hurt, and the damages correlates directly with her expectations about the experience).

By making explicit her emotional safety requirements, you two should be able to find a place where both of you may feel comfortable: your wife as to have sex with other people, and even for you to develop a friendship if all the involved people finds up there are enough shared interests beyond sex as to make them suitable for becoming the regular vanilla friends you may have today.

Thanks. I am listening to what you all are saying and it's opening me up to new ideas and hopefully I will understand the way she is and what makes her tick (is that possible?? her being a female? (joke ladies, a joke ? )

She had me confused about doing a full swap and I am still confused but I have sorted that out. It is her decision and when she's ready she will!

But now she has started this friendship thing and wanting to meet couples lots of times and making friends first etc,, she has basically blocked us meeting people in Clubs and enjoying them whilst we're in the Club which does frustrate me and I lose the fun of clubbing. If you meet a couple in a club then it's normal to go and go and have some fun with them after all, that's why everyone goes to the Club isn't it? German clubs are different to the one in the US of A..

We are fairly new but have met 8 couples and have played with only one (the first couple we met). The rest have been refusals on behalf of my wife. We did meet one couple who were 100% but turned out the Chemistry between she and I was just too strong and they had their problems as well so we didn't play.

I don't have any problem meeting people and making friends but I dont want a relationship with any other swingers, whereas I feel the wife does!

But I will take the advice and talk more with her spend yet another sleepless night talking lol! Done loads of them over the last 6 months! :-0

Thanks again people, you all are great!

There is no right or wrong here. Why do some people think that because you are not be looking for friendship that you MUST have some type of insecurity issue or are antisocial?.....BS. We are all here for the obvious reasons...to fuck other people plain and simple. Anybody that says otherwise is kidding themselves. You may be here to make friends THEN fuck them but your still here for the sex. You don't need to swing to make friends and you don't have to be friends with the people you swing with. If we develop a friendship before, during or after playing with a couple then great, but it isn't necessary or a goal of ours. The only prerequisite we have is an attraction and a mutual respect, nothing more. What is wrong with wanting the sex only? Not a damn thing. Again, that is why we are here and that is way you are reading this right now.

I find it a little odd when someone posts that they are in the lifestyle to make friends (not necessarily this post). It is as if that is their way of justifying being a swinger in first place. It's kind of like saying you read Playboy for the articles. Sure, I read the articles but without the naked woman I wouldn't be reading it. You can make friends anywhere, your job, a vanilla club, church etc. If you can't make friends at these places then you probably won't make them anywhere else either.

So, to those of you who want the sex only or don't need to be friends with your play partner, relax, there is nothing wrong with you (us).

On the flip side there is nothing wrong with wanting to be friends with your play partners first. But you don't hear anybody saying you must have some kind of issue because of it. Why? Because there is nothing wrong with that either.

There is a trend on this board for some to over analyze or over think issues or questions that are presented here. Sometimes black is just black and white is just white.

Do you all really think you need to have to have friendship in order to swing with the other party?? and whatever the answer is please explain if possible why?

This is a great question!

Starting with the basics, we need to feel some degree of excitement at the prospect of a sexual encounter with a couple in order to play. To what extent, then, is “friendship” necessary for us to feel that minimally sufficient degree of sexual excitement?

In general, we are drawn to couples whom we find “interesting.” A couple may be interesting because we have a number of things in common (similar life experiences, similar backgrounds, come from the same part of the country, etc.). However, commonality of interests and experiences is not necessarily a prerequisite for a couple to qualify as “interesting.” We have been with couples with whom we had little in common but who were nonetheless interesting because they exuded personality and a zest for fun and for life. Also, we admit to being shallow in the sense that physical attraction and/or availability and willingness to play are factors in whether a couple qualifies as “interesting.” So, for example, a more minimal level of interest may be needed when we are playing at a house party than would ordinarily be required for us to seek out a couple on line simply because we are all there and we are all playing.

So, how does “friendship” factor into whether we find a couple “interesting” or not? Well, I don’t think that we would play with any couple with whom we did not think, at the time, we would want to be friendly. But, that being said, just because we like to think of ourselves as friendly with the couples with whom we want to play does not mean that we have to have a relationship based upon that friendliness in place before we move into the bedroom. We have a limited amount of time to play and lives in the vanilla world demanding our attention. When we are looking for possible playmates, we are primarily interested in finding couples with similar interests and similar goals--couples with whom we might want to have a drink or see a movie but with whom we have far more interesting and exciting activities available as options.

So, if “friendship” is intended to mean developing a relationship outside the bedroom before moving into the bedroom, the answer has to be that, for us, “friendship” is not important at all.

lovinher said:

There is no right or wrong here. Why do some people think that because you are not be looking for friendship that you MUST have some type of insecurity issue or are antisocial?.....BS. We are all here for the obvious reasons...to fuck other people plain and simple. Anybody that says otherwise is kidding themselves. You may be here to make friends THEN fuck them but your still here for the sex. You don't need to swing to make friends and you don't have to be friends with the people you swing with. If we develop a friendship before, during or after playing with a couple then great, but it isn't necessary or a goal of ours. The only prerequisite we have is an attraction and a mutual respect, nothing more. What is wrong with wanting the sex only? Not a damn thing. Again, that is why we are here and that is way you are reading this right now.

I mean no disrespect, but I am not sure anyone said that we are calling people who want just sex to be insecure. I want friendships because I am new and need that level of security. If we meet up somewhere and it is hot and I never learn you last name, so be it. I have nothing against that, as I am sure most people here wouldn't.

We were simply trying to suggests why his wife feels the need to have friends. A level of security is a valid suggestion. One I still stand by.

I think you read to much into what has been said here.

Maybe your right Prettylady, but I was not referring to what you posted. The suggestion was also made that maybe he is the problem, which may or may not be true. We don't know enough.

My point was there is nothing wrong with either view point. Just maybe they just disagree. That doesn't mean one or the other has insecurity or social problems.

The fact is we would not play with anybody we could not friends with and we don't have to or want to be friends in order to play.

Over the past 26 years we've experienced both friends and the "Hey, you're cute! Y'all wanna come over to our place?" playmates.

Both have been a lot of fun, but we'd give nod to the friends in the long run. That doesn't rule out jumping in bed with a couple we might meet in the hotel bar in Dallas.

But there is a downside to playing with the same couple over a period of time. It gets a bit boring. I remember a conversation between myself and Mrs. Alura some years ago, coming home from a playdate:

"How was sex with Charlie, Babe?

"I think he's perfected his technique in eating pussy, Darling. Other than that, predictable. Just like ol' married folks."

It takes a while to learn a woman's likes and dislikes but nothing replaces the excitement of the first taste of a woman.

We don't have to be "best friends" to swing with someone, but our litmus test for getting naked with them is "if sex wasn't THE factor here, is this someone we'd be friends with anyway?"

There has to be that kind of mental attraction for us. It doesn't mean we'll become friends, it just means that there has to be more beyond "you're hot, lets get naked". Sex for us is as mental an act as it is physical, and someone that doesn't turn us on mentally won't turn us on physically, it doesn't matter how hot they are.

We've also found that many of our friends today are in the Lifestyle. This is because even if we don't have sex with them, we can be ourselves around them, and they usually have a pretty similar outlook on life in general.

Do you all really think you need to have to have friendship in order to swing with the other party?? and whatever the answer is please explain if possible why?

I'm one of those who needs to feel that we COULD be friends outside of the sexual relationship. Meaning, we've conversed enough through email, in person, IM, whatever long enough that it feels comfortable and we have some similar interests and can get along, and would want to be friends outside of the bedroom/hotel room/whatever room, especially if the sex part works out.

We do not wait for months to engage in sex because of this friendship desire. I do think friendship is an evolving process and takes time to even get to the point that one would consider the other a friend, rather than an acquaintance. Thus, it could be a long time before having sex and that's not necessarily what we are after either. So, if we are reasonably comfortable and there seems to be chemistry, we'll go for it, and see where it may lead.

Has it worked out that we've made "friends"? Not really... after reading this board lately, I consider us lucky that at least we've met one person that might be a friend/evolve into a decent friendship upon our re-entry into the alternative lifestyles.

This is just another "to each their own" debate... there is no right or wrong answer regarding friendship, only what works for each participant.

While, I'd imagine that finding a friend could never be construed as a bad thing, true friends are a rare enough find, that I'd be severely limited in the choice of possible play-mates, if I arbitrarily imposed that litmus test.

Imagine, if you will---I'm not going to bypass the opportunity of enjoying a quickie, with, say, a Jessica Simpson, or, a Eva Longoria, based on the probability/improbability of our maintaining a lasting friendship.

Hi,

FH and I have not joined the swinging lifestyle as yet...however I agree with you....there is no need for friendship....if we do this it would be for sex...I'm not interested in emotional connections and all the trouble that goes wth it. And I do believe there is trouble....if your wife needs to make connections with the men she fucks then who is to say that love won't be her next stop. And I don't know about you but the idea of my FH loving another woman drives me crazy. I think I would rather hire a hooker to play than deal with emotional connections....this way I at least know she is there for sex and nothing else..no worries. but then again...like I said we havent swung yet.....although FH seems to be the type to want friends...I already told him if we ever did swing there would be no exchanging of numbers or emails or Iming afterwards.....strictly fuck them and then leave them....no reason for anything else as far as I'm concerned.

Oh and the only similar interest I care about is sexual preferences.....I just dont want to get involved with other people.

When we started this lifestyle together we discussed how we would decide who we would fuck or not. At first we thought that establishing some sort of friendship with our playmates first would work out better. As time went on we figured out that friendship takes time. And once you become friends with some people, you start learning things about them that you really don't want to know. We're not a "come 1 cum all" type couple, but we're not as strict in our selection process anymore either. When we meet people, we decide on the physical aspects a little heavier now, and if a friendship develops, we consider that the "benefit".

Well, here is my 2 cents!

Frienship is very essential for us, I would just have a hard time having sex with a complete stranger or somebody I did not really know. There also has to be a mutual attraction along with complete trust. I know my husband feels the same way!

If I did not enjoy the couple I was with socially, how could I enjoy having sex with them?

The friendship part includes trust and our feelings. Not into the slam bang thank you ma'am see you next week!

One couple we swing with on a regular basis we have known close to 20 years and other couples about 5-15 years. The beauty of this is no fear of STD's and no inhibitions or hangups. We know each other well enough that we know each others moods/feelings leading to rowdy & raunchy sex or passionate & loving sex.

Just my thoughts, Jamie