First Swing experience. Alot of damage done!

Hello..

Sorry if this gets too long. My husband I had our first swinging experience last weekend and becasue of it, we are not swinging anymore and going to marriage couseling, and I want advice from all you great people. We met a couple that we met for the first time 2 weeks earlier at a local hotel. We chatted and made small talk, then we all stripped and started playing with our partners then switched up to the other person's partner. It was a disaster for us because I wasn't into it and neither was he, but we tried. He performed oral on me and I did it to him too, but no matter what I did, he would not get hard. I watched my husband go down on the other lady, and make her cum like 5 times, and she did oral on him for a few minutes, then they got busy with screwing. He was totally enjoying it and he was unaware of anyone else in the room. I was beyond upset because he totally ignored me, and he was doing everything he does with me with someone else. I was fine with the sex part, but not the being ignored part. We sat and watched tv and watched them, until I had enough, and went to the bathroom. When I came back, they took a break, and he was calling the sitter to see how the kids were doing. Nobody answered the phone so we left and went home. Then we got home, and talked about it. This experience destroyed alot of our marriage because he didn't follow the rules that we agreed to and I didn't even want to be there, but he didn't drop the subject, so I gave him to make him happy. So now we are going to our first couseling session on Monday and try to repair the damage that was done. I feel that I was cheated on in front of my own eyes. He was happy because he got what he wanted ( a great screw and his wife didn't). I don't feel the same way about him. I can't think of being intimate in any way, because he was intimate with her and that was reserved for me, even though it was just physical. I only agreed to do it because he wouldn't let it go, and I didn't think of any other way to stop his want/need to do it. So I let him do it let him see how it would hurt our marriage. Please tell me what to do about the intimate and get my marriage back on track the way it was before. Oh the reason he wanted to do it was a fantasy to do another woman. My thinking is he wanted it because he was bored with our sex life, even though it was great! Thank you.

Sounds like to me that you guys shouln't have started in the first place. You weren't ready. Maybe you won't ever be. Hope you get good counselling and are ok. Good luck.

I only agreed to do it because he wouldn't let it go, and I didn't think of any other way to stop his want/need to do it. So I let him do it let him see how it would hurt our marriage.

First of all thank you for posting your experience. This will sound harsh, but from what I read you did this to manipulate him into dropping the swinging subject. If you had a terrible time, you could lay some guilt on him and then he would never want to do it again. Correct me if I'm wrong but you were probably determined not to enjoy yourself. The other male could probably tell this and that in itself was a big turnoff for him. You basically used this other couple to get what you want.

I do think you need some counseling. When people have to resort to manipulation there is definately something wrong there....and yeah, swinging is definately not for you.

Mrs

You have posted a recount of an very bad experience. I have no doubts that you didn't have fun. For you not recognize the fact that you had something to do with your marriage having to be restored would be hard for me to take. You said you had met this couple 2 weeks before...didn't you know then that you weren't interested in him? Why go into something where all of you weren't on the same page? The swinging you did sounds very normal. Start with each other and swap. Some do it the other way. It shouldn't be something that causes problems. What rules were broken? How many other encounters have you had? Why this couple? You haven't given any of us any details of your desires or experiences.

Sure, go to counseling...and take a good look at yourself too. Definitely don't swing anymore.

Male D

Sounds like to me that you guys shouln't have started in the first place. You weren't ready. Maybe you won't ever be. Hope you get good counselling and are ok. Good luck.

You are correct! We should not have got involved in the swinging lifestyle, but once my husband got the idea in his head, he wouldn't let it go. We aren't going to try it again. Thank you, for your opinion! Have a great day!!

You have posted a recount of an very bad experience. I have no doubts that you didn't have fun. For you not recognize the fact that you had something to do with your marriage having to be restored would be hard for me to take.

I know I had fault just as much as husband because I allowed and approved it, but my husband knew I didn't want to do it or be there, and wouldn't let it go.

You said you had met this couple 2 weeks before...didn't you know then that you weren't interested in him?

[/u]I was interested in friendship but nothing else. My husband wasn't letting the issue go. Yes I knew I didn't want another man, any man other then the man I married.

Why go into something where all of you weren't on the same page? I will say it again...Husband's fantasy and wouldn't let it go until he got it!

The swinging you did sounds very normal. Start with each other and swap. Some do it the other way. It shouldn't be something that causes problems. What rules were broken?

I didn't want to be there and he knew that and he pushed anyway to try and continue. He didn't want to be there, but he didn't want the label of a 'fake couple' if we tried swinging again.

How many other encounters have you had?

First experience of any kind of swinging.

Why this couple?

Basically they were there and willing.

You haven't given any of us any details of your desires or experiences.

First experience with swinging, desire was to not do it.

Sure, go to counseling...and take a good look at yourself too. Definitely don't swing anymore.

Like I said, WE did this, but he just got more involved and ignored me, and enjoyed it a whole lot more then me. He wanted and I didn't. Nobody is perfect, atleast I know I didn't want it and I accept that, and I also accept that I shouldn't have let it happen, but I also accept that, I don't think he would have let it go.

Thank you for your opinion!

Male D

First of all thank you for posting your experience. This will sound harsh, but from what I read you did this to manipulate him into dropping the swinging subject.

I didn't do it to manipulate him into dropping the swinging subject. I did it for him to see that we shouldn't be in the swinging lifestyle and he wouldn't drop the subject until he got to do what he wanted to do. I am not manipulative.

If you had a terrible time, you could lay some guilt on him and then he would never want to do it again. Correct me if I'm wrong but you were probably determined not to enjoy yourself.

I didn't want to be there, so I was determined not to enjoy myself. I didn't lay guilt on him. We are responsible for this, not just him.

The other male could probably tell this and that in itself was a big turnoff for him. You basically used this other couple to get what you want.

I don't feel I used anyone. They knew what we both wanted and they knew that I was unsure of what I wanted and they wanted to proceed anyway. I was totally honest with both of them. If they didn't want to go, they didn't have to.

I do think you need some counseling. When people have to resort to manipulation there is definately something wrong there....and yeah, swinging is definately not for you.

I don't feel I manipulated my husband in any way. If anyone he manipulated me because he wouldn't drop it, and be content with the life we have had for 15 years.

Mrs

Sorry to hear you had a bad time but around here we would call what you did taking one for the team. For us it doesn’t matter why you took one for the team but only that you did. Taking one for the team is not what swinging should be. If you two were not in this together and at the slowest person's pace then you didn't need to be swinging. Sounds like your communications were not in place as well. If your husband wasn’t hearing you correctly it’s understandable why since you agreed to go forward. You should have been more insistent about not wanting to do anything sexual. That was mostly your mistake not his. Communication is the key to swinging as well a successful relationship. Good luck with your marriage.

Dodgecouple64.

If you alow him to push you to do this against your wishes, what else is he going to get you to do?

I was in a marriage that HE made all the choices, not because he was a big tough guy, but because I would continualy give in to him. He says yes, I say no, he says yes, I say ya what ever. Soon he learnt that all he has to do is push.

If you don't want to do something, stand your ground. don't just say no, MEAN NO!!!

Now having said that you must also choose which fights are worth fighting. If you are dead set against something that effects you directly say and mean NO, but if it is something that is not going to harm your mind or body then ya let him have his own way.

It is a tough line to walk.

I am now in a wonderful relationship with Dog, but I stand by my sence of right and wrong with me. for instance, I am not prepared to do a FMF yet. I have made it clear to Dog. He would never push, but I leave no room for misunderstanding.

Now just between you me and everyone else on this board. I am not a person who says never. perhaps someday the situation will present itself and I will jump in. But until then....NO.

Now lets just hope Dog doesn't read this.

Your friend,

Prettylady

I have to agree that you took one for the team...Never A Good Thing.

I have to agree, your husband should be spanked for pushing you so hard.

I have to agree, go to counseling...to learn how to be satisfied with each other. facelick

Thank you for responding, DodgeCouple94

Male D

Well it sounds to me that you got what you deserved in this situation. I know that is harsh but what you did was harsh. The people I feel sorry for in this situation is the other couple. If I understand this correctly, your husband told you about a fantasy of having sex with another woman. He started talking about swinging as a way to fulfill that fantasy. From the way you explained it, doesn't sound like you voiced an opposition to it, but rather went along to teach him a lesson and show why it "would hurt your marriage". If you did voice your opposition, then you should have never went along with it no matter if your husband “wouldn’t drop it” or not. Your husband should have been paying attention to what you were saying and kept things in the fantasy world. But in any event you met another couple, and played with them, or at least attempted to play with them. You talk about you and your husband starting to play with each other, and then switched to the other couple but that the other man didn't get hard, (which if he was getting the vibe that you weren't into this or him - why would he) and that he pleasured the other woman and then “they got busy with screwing”. It sounds to me like you had already made up your mind that you weren’t going to do anything with him, so that you could keep the “moral high ground”. It also doesn't sound to me like it would have mattered who the other husband was, you weren't interested in him no matter what, all you were interested in was "showing your husband what his actions were going to cause". You had already made up your mind as to what the damage was going to be from swinging and you went along with it anyway to prove a point. If your marriage was a good as you claim, you would have fought tooth and nail against doing anything that would have hurt it. But no you wanted to show your husband what damage it would cause. You say that he ignored you, are you sure he was ignoring you and not just focusing his attention on his play partner, there is a HUGE difference. You went on to say “I can't think of being intimate in any way, because he was intimate with her and that was reserved for me, even though it was just physical”. IF you really understood swinging you would understand that intimacy has NOTHING to do with the physical act of sex, BUT it is emotional and mental bond that a couple shares. I doubt very seriously that a one time swing experience would cause an emotional bond between your husband and the other woman. It really amazes me how many people (even in the lifestyle) think that sex is anything more that a physical act. Sex doesn't require intimacy, hell you don’t even have to like the other person. But in this country for the most part we have been brought up to think that sex and love are the same thing or that you can't have sex unless you love someone. That is the one reality that people outside the lifestyle don't understand about us. What makes the lifestyle work is that we understand that sex and love (real intimacy) have nothing to do with each other. People all the time say that no one is better than their partner when it comes to sex, what makes it better is the emotional and mental connection( intimacy ) that a couple shares, not the physical skills.

Now you get to share all this with a marriage counselor who is going to tell you how wrong swinging is and how much damage it causes marriages, just what you wanted to hear and what you wanted to impress upon your husband. I personally think you have much bigger issues in your marriage than the situation you described.

Mr. Menage_a_Trois

Well it sounds to me that you got what you deserved in this situation. I know that is harsh but what you did was harsh. The people I feel sorry for in this situation is the other couple. Mr. Menage_a_Trois

Not Harsh at all Mr. Menage.

Being new to swinging I often miss alot of what is going on. And this is one case in point. I made reference to her giving in and needing to stand her ground. While I still believe this, I did not take into account the other couple.

Thank you Sir for this comment. This is just one of many things I need to learn before jumping into the waters.

You have all been great in teaching me what the lifestyle is all about. So for those of you who ask questions, be prepared to learn something new. How ever much you may dislike the comments these people are here to help and most here have been there and done that, so they know of what they speak.

Again thanks for the eye opener.

Your friend,

Prettylady

My question would be, why come on a swingers site and ask for advice?

[/u] I don't feel I manipulated my husband in any way. If anyone he manipulated me because he wouldn't drop it, and be content with the life we have had for 15 years.

 

Mrs

Well guess what, you did. You set him up and I think the counseling etc is just another way to make sure you rub his nose in it. Your own words betray you, and I can't say I'm buying the woman scorned routine here. I don't see anger here or hurt, I someone trying to teach their husband a lesson. I feel sorry for him.

Well guess what, you did. You set him up and I think the counseling etc is just another way to make sure you rub his nose in it. Your own words betray you, and I can't say I'm buying the woman scorned routine here. I don't see anger here or hurt, I someone trying to teach their husband a lesson. I feel sorry for him.

That was kind of my take on it. Sometimes the hardest thing is to look inside ourselves. Your husband and this other couple were victims of a scheme.

Mrs

Susan here--Seems to me, if your husband was pushing you to do something you weren't interested in, the time for counselling was BEFORE you did something you did not want to. The problem isn't him, the problem isn't you, the problem is BOTH of you. You deserve each other and shame on you for placing this other couple in your mess.

You spread the gasoline, light the match, then complain the fire burned down your house.

im not going to flame you or your husband,but i certanly would like to hear his side of this. you said that all the way through this you were a defanatly NO NO NO and even the couple knew this but wanted to play anyhow. what i dont understand is how long did you talk about this before you made the plung into disaster.

somehow it makes me glad that we talked about this for so long before we decided to persue swinging.

you see we spent a few years maby a little more talking about every senerio that could happen good or bad. we did know the first time that no matter what the sex turned out to be it was not going to destroy our relationship, it would be a learning experiance completley together.

i really am so sorry that the lifestyle has some how damaged your relationship it has been so pro,marrige for us and the friends we have.your actually the first that we have heard of this happening to. we wish you guys could have been on the same page with this. as for counseling .. we wish you had maby taken that alternative first but its never to late to work things out if that is both of your desires.

mrs fun and i wish you guys all the best, as a married couple we hope somehow your marrige becomes stronger. our hearts are with you. we always feel that marrige comes first and above all. as swingers on a journey together we wish you guys well even if the lifestyle isnt for you.

peace and happiness, mr. and mrs.fun

Well guess what, you did. You set him up and I think the counseling etc is just another way to make sure you rub his nose in it. Your own words betray you, and I can't say I'm buying the woman scorned routine here. I don't see anger here or hurt, I someone trying to teach their husband a lesson. I feel sorry for him.

Dito , exactly what I was thinking. You set up your husband and this other couple and then claim you are the one wronged in this. I don't think so.

I agree with everyone else here in that if you knew this wasn't for you then you should have never done it. The part I find so distastfull about this though, is that it is clear from your posts that your goal from the beginning was to create this self fullfilling proficy, and now you are complaining that it worked.

This is why we definitely do not "introduce" anyone to the lifestyle - it is fraught with potential drama. Everyone is at fault here - the husband for being pushy, the wife for being manipulative, and the other couple for being so eager to swing that they chose a disfunctional newbie couple. The situation just plain sucks and is something we avoid like the plague.

I agree with what has be told so far.

Moreover, I believe you have nothing to complain about, because everithing seems to happen the way you wanted it to happen.

You USED this other couple to give your husband a lesson. Even when you still claim you was honest, I disagree: you said you did it because your husband pushed you into this, told the other couple you didn't know what you wanted, when you already knew you didn't wanted to swing.

So, you give your husband the lesson of his life. Congratulations! Did it worth the price?

I don't buy you felt so hurt while watching your huband have sex with this other woman. If you were that hurt, for sure you'd stopped it right there, instead you watched TV until you "couldn't take anymore"... casually by the time your husband finished. As to be able to taught this lesson, you needed him to finish and get pleased, because if not, he'd be the one able to blame on you for the experience failure, so you were able to take the pain tight there.

The pain you were unable to take was before the actual experience, was what lead you to conclude there would no be another way to stop your husband pressure but this one.

I suspect you came here looking for a relief of some sort: you know you gave him a lesson, but this made a lot of damage to your marriage, more than what you expected beforehand, and you want us to help you blame your husband for the damage.

You have to take your share in the responsibility, and for this very experience the smoking gun is still in your hand. And you'd have to face this in your counceling, or your marrage will end up going trough the sink.

I am sorry if this sounds too harsh, but sometimes people needs to be shaken to wake up, instead of getting the advice the way they're expecting it to be. I am sorry for you two, but I wont be the one helping you wash your hands.

So why didn't the baby sitter answer the phone when you called?

So why didn't the baby sitter answer the phone when you called?

She was getting laid! I'm sorry I could't help myself.

I know you were thinking it too.

...snip I watched my husband go down on the other lady, and make her cum like 5 times, and she did oral on him for a few minutes, then they got busy with screwing. He was totally enjoying it and he was unaware of anyone else in the room.

You, DodgeCouple were not ready for the swinging crowd. I really can't blame the other guy for not being "into it". The other guy sensed it and was totally turned off. Really, I don't blame him. The rest of this truncated quote makes you sound jealous and really, you had no business being with this other couple. Of course, your husband was enjoying himself; isn't that what he was supposed to do? Aren't we supposed to have a good time when we swing? I thought so.

I was beyond upset because he totally ignored me, and he was doing everything he does with me with someone else.

I'm really sorry you feel this way. I'm not sure what he could have done to make you feel included. What did you want him to do?

This experience destroyed alot of our marriage because he didn't follow the rules that we agreed to and I didn't even want to be there, but he didn't drop the subject, so I gave him to make him happy.

Now, this is where you went wrong. You gave in to make him happy? And what if you'd told him "no"? Would he do this behind your back? If you answered yes, your marriage wasn't strong enough to even survive swinging. If you answered no, you made your own bed, so to speak. You never take one for the team.

I feel that I was cheated on in front of my own eyes.

You weren't cheated on. YOU gave your permission for you husband to do this. Maybe not a wise decision on your part, yet you consented to it, nonetheless.

He was happy because he got what he wanted ( a great screw and his wife didn't).

Drama.

I only agreed to do it because he wouldn't let it go, and I didn't think of any other way to stop his want/need to do it. So I let him do it let him see how it would hurt our marriage.

You risked your marriage for this? You actually put your marriage on the line so he'd hopefully shut-up? My husband nor I would ever risk our marriage for an outside fling. In my eyes, you've deceived your husband and the other couple.

You not only put your marriage at risk, you used another couple to do it. You manipulated this couple to play YOUR games. Not a wise move!

I suspect you've not replied to any more posts in your thread because you haven't liked what we've had to say. Again, I'm sorry that your marriage is in disarray. I hope you get the counselling you need.

I can't imagine a person putting some other couple through all of this for a test! Disgusting. I can't believe that she felt that she'd find support for her story...but we're trying!

This is smelling funny...

Male D

 

This is smelling funny...

Even though my troll meter was going off, I do know people like this are out there so I gave it the benifit of the doubt.

I really wanted to believe this one too. These guys need help. If I were the Hub I would be mortified that my wife had such a reaction. I also suppose that I would do anything she wanted to try to save the marriage that she placed in harms way.

But when she wrote that the babysitter didn't answer the phone...c'mon!

Male D

Yes, Sweet Candy, the slowest person's pace.

That means this swing should have never gotten to the point of swapping. You, the wife weren't comfortable with it even BEFORE the sex began. Let's not tell you at this point what you SHOULD have done before even meeting the other couple. I am SO glad you are going to see a counselor.

But please, I know you'll expect your husband to listen to the counselor, but make sure YOU listen to the counselor, too. With the counseling, try not to have any pre-expectations of what the counselor is going to say.

Try to find someone you may be able to trust, then trust them. They may not get you to your goal in a way you expect. Focus on the important part; the relationship.

Mr. Bird

PS I know I'm new here, but maybe we can give this lady, who may have made an error in judgement, the benefit of the doubt. If it was Forum Trolling, let them have a laugh. But if she is genuinely looking for help...

OMG, there are so many red flags here I'm not even going to bother starting to point them out. Yeah, bottom line: you two were nowhere near ready for this sort of thing. And being horny for other people (as your husband was/is) doesn't count as being ready. Neither does your calm granting of permission qualify you. Allowing your husband to do this while disagreeing with it (!!!) is a manipulative psychological game. Please tell me that you can see that.

I'm sorry that you're not getting the kind of support you're looking for, but we're all quite comfortable being tough on one another and on ourselves as far as honesty and integrity goes. The fact that we're being as tough on you as we are should tell you that we care enough to want you to want more from yourself and your relationship. Admitting your own faults in this does not, of course, absolve you husband from his jackass behaviour. It just takes care of business on your end, which is all any person can do. If everyone did this, the world would be near perfect. But just because he's not owning up to HIS faults, it doesn't mean that you are not required to own up to yours. Your husband is absolutely wrong for putting his silly sexual desires ahead of his marriage. If he realizes how petty this is, yet does it anyway, then he needs to work on developping some depth as a person. But when someone's thinking is that screwed up, you're not going to improve them by tricking them into a situation where they will be "punished". Don't play these games. If you didn't feel that swinging was right, if you felt that it diminished your relationship, then the onus is on you to speak up and make those feelings known.

I can just see how this scenario went. He's happily humping away on this other woman, thinking to himself that his wife finally was happy about it. Then after she's waited patiently for him to finish, she shoots dagger at him with her eyes and asks, "So how was it? Huh? Asshole? Was it some GOOD FUCKIN'?? Was it worth our marriage? Huh? Was it? 'Cause you didn't know it, but you just threw it away."

Maybe that's the trouble: did he really realize he was throwing away the marriage by doing this? Did you give him any indication that that was what he was doing? If not, then that is your own failing.

you did the right thing...you are right about him not giving up...even if you said NO...he would have gone behind your back and did it anyway....this way you brought it to the top...now its in his face and yours, and you people have to do SOMETHING about it...you may have avoided a lifetime of misery with a cheating husband to go along with a disfunctional family...good girl! now he has to do his job! he married you and he knew what that meant...take one for the team? Man, you better take this one on the chin...do whatever she needs you to do until she forgives you...never stop apologizing...or you will leave a legacy of a broken family, that will last forever...Step up and make it right...Sweetheart, none of this is your fault...however, you must realize that, in a way, he was trying to save his marriage... you have to show trust in him...he probably thought it was the right thing to do and you must always consider the possbility that this will always be something he wants to do, even if he never does it.

you did the right thing...you are right about him not giving up...even if you said NO...he would have gone behind your back and did it anyway....this way you brought it to the top...now its in his face and yours, and you people have to do SOMETHING about it...you may have avoided a lifetime of misery with a cheating husband to go along with a disfunctional family...good girl! now he has to do his job! he married you and he knew what that meant...take one for the team? Man, you better take this one on the chin...do whatever she needs you to do until she forgives you...never stop apologizing...or you will leave a legacy of a broken family, that will last forever...Step up and make it right...Sweetheart, none of this is your fault...however, you must realize that, in a way, he was trying to save his marriage... you have to show trust in him...he probably thought it was the right thing to do and you must always consider the possbility that this will always be something he wants to do, even if he never does it.

It's your 4 post. The first one telling you're 47, single, and that you never swung before, the other two to tell you're anxious to have this experience, that you're looking for clubs in you area, and to congratulate for the information you got from the forum.

I don't know if you notice your post is THE ONLY ONE here following the flow of the OP attempt to blame on her husband for, in the best case, a shared mistake, and IMHO, for her own mistakes and manipulative attempts.

It seems to me you don't understand what's going on here, and I suspect that being single you don't have much of a clue of a couple dynamics. You just read the first post and played her game, where she'd be attempting to use this board and it members to keep manipulating her husband now that they're going to counseling.

I strongly disagree with you. Re-read the post: she did this looking for THIS outcome, and not any other. For this to work, she needed her husband to have a great time. She claims he was a jerk who didn't paid attention, and I suspect that even if he were paying attention, she would have been missleading him to suppose that everithing was ok (as she did all along the way when agreeing to meet this couple). She needed him to be pleased as to be able to take the role of the victim she prettends to be, and if there are some victimizer here, she would be the one and not her husband.

If my wife were doing something like this to me, after this post she'd be at the ER room where they would be trying to recover from her ass my right shoe. This gal is lucky and should feel gratefull that her husband are still around and wanting to fix things up by means of a counceling, and if we were adding fuel to the fire by encouraging her to keep blaming her husband for her faults, it's very likely that he would leave her, since by now he have more than enough reasons to do it.

Notice that it was'nt him the one posting, but it was her, with her own words, who dig her own grave here. In this case I don't even require to hear the other bell to identify her faults.

We may be simpathetic with the poster pain, but we'd be carefull to set appart our simphaty from our advice (even when in this case I cannot feel simphaty for the OP, but with her husband, simply because, as SHE SAID, she framed him in a very low fashion).

Ok now here is something I'm wondering. How did the husband not know she was't having a good time? We know from a bad experience or two......or four, that it's almost impossible for one half of a couple (especially if they've been married for 14 years), to not recognize that their spouse wasn't being satisfied. Same goes for the wife of the unidentified couple.

When we play with another couple, one of our favorite parts of the evening is watching each other in action. Are we the only ones?

My wife and I had different opinions about this whole thing and the thing that we agreed on for sure is that there were problems in their marriage to begin with. Swinging was just the last nail in the coffin.

Oh and one more thing. Is it common for folks to call up the sitter and ask about the kids when they are out for the evening? Our sitters have our numbers and are very good at using a phone. If something is wrong and they can't handle it, they let us know. UNLESS we are in certain clubs that don't allow cell phones, and we have to request to use the house phone, we let the sitters do what we're paying them for. We don't want to babysit the babysitter.

Jon

Ok now here is something I'm wondering. How did the husband not know she was't having a good time? We know from a bad experience or two......or four, that it's almost impossible for one half of a couple (especially if they've been married for 14 years), to not recognize that their spouse wasn't being satisfied. Same goes for the wife of the unidentified couple.

 

When we play with another couple, one of our favorite parts of the evening is watching each other in action. Are we the only ones?

 

My wife and I had different opinions about this whole thing and the thing that we agreed on for sure is that there were problems in their marriage to begin with. Swinging was just the last nail in the coffin.

 

Oh and one more thing. Is it common for folks to call up the sitter and ask about the kids when they are out for the evening? Our sitters have our numbers and are very good at using a phone. If something is wrong and they can't handle it, they let us know. UNLESS we are in certain clubs that don't allow cell phones, and we have to request to use the house phone, we let the sitters do what we're paying them for. We don't want to babysit the babysitter.

 

 

Jon

Dito

I was wondering the same thing. No, you're not the only one that ENJOYS watching your partner.

As far as the babysitter goes, I haven't had to hire one for years. Our youngest in 16. Before that, his sister usually stayed home with him. I don't ever recall having to call home to see if things were OK. Things aren't that different with sitters these days, are they?

Ok now here is something I'm wondering. How did the husband not know she wasn't having a good time? We know from a bad experience or two......or four, that it's almost impossible for one half of a couple (especially if they've been married for 14 years), to not recognize that their spouse wasn't being satisfied. Same goes for the wife of the unidentified couple.

I've been thinking the same thing - they stayed in the same room, how could he not see? This is what the husband had been whining and nagging to get for years, and apparently when he finally got it, he was oblivious to everything else. Maybe if he'd been sensitive to his wife and much more aware of her, the outcome would have been at least somewhat different? Even if the wife wasn't forthcoming with her motives of going into this and her distaste for it, he had to at least have sensed hesitation on her part. If he wasn't a complete moron, he would have maintained some eye contact with her, watched to see how she was doing, on their first time out.

When we play with another couple, one of our favorite parts of the evening is watching each other in action. Are we the only ones?

You're not the only one. This is our favorite part. We get extremely turned-on watching each other. For us, it's the best part. In fact, we prefer same-bed whenever possible, to have more contact: eye contact, touching or sexual contact, while engaging with others. It's much hotter for us, this way. We also both like sitting back to watch each other. If something wasn't feeling right, we'd know it. We stay tuned into each other, and have since the very first time. Is there any other way? Not for us.

My wife and I had different opinions about this whole thing and the thing that we agreed on for sure is that there were problems in their marriage to begin with. Swinging was just the last nail in the coffin.

Totally agree. I don't think that either one of them were really hearing the other, and they both had their own agendas to push. There were manipulations on both sides.

So why didn't the baby sitter answer the phone when you called?

She was asleep...coulda been a late nite...or they don't have caller ID and the sitter didn't answer. Strange thing to do and then also a funny thing to add to the story. What difference would it have made to the outcome?

This is becoming like a murder mystery...Try to solve the crime!

Male D

thank you for your reply...everything i said was absolute...we get married then change the rules...thats ok...but when we try to bring someone else into our train of thought ...we have to be prepared to accept NO....he wasn't prepared...he should have done his homework...i still say its all his fault ....remember she was reacting...he was the driving force...not her...she simply gave in to it.

by the way i married my high school sweetheart in 1979...she passed away in 2004...hmmm thats a pretty good couple dynamic...how many years have you been with your partner?...the fact that you think not even one person should understand her point of view, tells me that you are an advocate...how far would you go to save your marriage? she should not be treated so badly...she opened herself to the idea, even though she didnt want to...i know it looks bad, but she was doing her best...she may have made the wrong decision, but that is all...counseling? NO...she just married the wrong guy (maybe)...if he wanted to have other women...he should have told her before he married her...shes just a good woman, who wanted to live a different lifestyle...isnt that ok....or do you want everyone to be a swinger (smile)...

Mmkay. zzzzzz1, you sound like a troll. Your tone is argumentative, and many of your points appear to be oppositional to the whole philosophy of swinging. One of the main principles is self-accountability, where you remove your reactionary response and accept blame where blame is due. Was there anything she could've done to avoid the hurt that was caused? Uh...YEAH!

i still say its all his fault ....remember she was reacting...he was the driving force...not her...she simply gave in to it.

She is not responsible for her husband's bad behaviour, but she sure as hell is responsible for her own. So he pushed. But it's his fault that she didn't stick to her principles and she eventually gave in? Not only gave in, but played the martyr in order to punish him. Yes, she was reacting, and that - right there! - is the problem. She was reacting instead of thinking. "...she simply gave in to it." Simply? This is the biggest part of the problem, not a minor detail! She had the power to end this folly at that very point, yet she decided to use it to her advantage to punish her husband...because she was hurt that he wanted other women. Now, I still think her husband is an ass for pushing her like that. Poke a dog with a stick enough times and you shouldn't be surprised when you get bit. If it was her husband on here, don't doubt that he'd have his butt chewed right off for being so selfish and callous. But it's her we're talking to. And my harshness in my assessment of the situation is no indicator of how much sympathy I feel. I feel very badly that anyone has to be stuck in that kind of situation. I truly do. But I get a little frustrated when people complain about being in a destructive rut like this, yet they refuse to help themselves; they just want a pat on the back and to be told "Everything will be okay, you did nothing wrong, it's all your husband's fault." So your post gave her exactly what she sought, but it won't help her one bit. All that does is put a bandaid on a spurting artery. If she wants things fixed, she'll have to do it herself, and it won't be pleasant because she'll have to face up to her own mistakes, too...not just telling her husband about his.

by the way i married my high school sweetheart in 1979...she passed away in 2004...hmmm thats a pretty good couple dynamic...how many years have you been with your partner?

Been married 12 years with two kids. No, not 25 years yet, but I see no reason at all to think we won't be together. Not when marriage is a blessing instead of a chore.

...the fact that you think not even one person should understand her point of view, tells me that you are an advocate...how far would you go to save your marriage?

Oh...about as far as it takes to swallow my foolish pride and question my own actions, motivations and intentions. It takes so much less effort to simply blame someone else. And who says we don't understand her point of view?? Perhaps the reason some of us are so forthcoming about our opinions of it, is because we can directly relate to that very point of view! You don't suppose we were all born swingers, do you? Oh no. Many of us were as "vanilla" as they come.

she should not be treated so badly...she opened herself to the idea, even though she didnt want to...i know it looks bad, but she was doing her best...she may have made the wrong decision, but that is all...

She's not being treated badly. We're just being honest with her, and we do this for her own good. Kudos to her for even considering swinging; many people do not allow themselves to even consider anything but strict monogamy. We promise, the finger-wagging WILL stop once she gives us an indication that she understands what we're trying to tell her. It is out of concern for her and her husband that we respond this way, not because we enjoy pissing in someone's corn flakes.

counseling? NO...she just married the wrong guy (maybe)...if he wanted to have other women...he should have told her before he married her...shes just a good woman, who wanted to live a different lifestyle...isnt that ok....or do you want everyone to be a swinger (smile)...

Hmmm. Well...I believe that it is possible for any two people to be in love with one another, because love is a choice we make, not something we wait expectantly for. However, I'd agree with you that it's still unwise to pair two people together whose basic goals and personalities are constantly at odds with one another. I guess the question now is whether or not there is a point to their marriage, considering how different their outlooks/goals are. But you can't blame swinging for that; these outlooks/goals were already there, hidden, before this situation revealed them. And no, we don't want anyone who isn't into it to try swinging, because this kind of drama is the result. And it really is like someone pissing in the pool of potential play-partners. It means everybody's got to get out of the pool while they drain it and clean it. :rollseyes In other words, the other couple likely had a crappy evening, too (or at least the other guy did). If these two had had their act together before they jumped in, no doubt everyone would've had a fabulous time. But instead, one couple dragged their emotional baggage into a situation that shouldn't have had any.

Part of my mind is trying to convince me that she must have felt she had the World's Most Indestructable Marriage..."Let's see how he handles this morta® Or (l) attack...He He!"

Sheesh!

Male D

I only agreed to do it because he wouldn't let it go, and I didn't think of any other way to stop his want/need to do it.

The famous first and last mistake. Anyone who does this just because they are talked into it or who talks someone else into it is just asking for trouble...

you did the right thing...you are right about him not giving up...even if you said NO...he would have gone behind your back and did it anyway....this way you brought it to the top...now its in his face and yours, and you people have to do SOMETHING about it...you may have avoided a lifetime of misery with a cheating husband to go along with a disfunctional family...good girl! now he has to do his job! he married you and he knew what that meant...take one for the team? Man, you better take this one on the chin...do whatever she needs you to do until she forgives you...never stop apologizing...or you will leave a legacy of a broken family, that will last forever...Step up and make it right...Sweetheart, none of this is your fault...however, you must realize that, in a way, he was trying to save his marriage... you have to show trust in him...he probably thought it was the right thing to do and you must always consider the possbility that this will always be something he wants to do, even if he never does it.

what a line of s#!t your spewing out ! your post reads like something out of the old ann landers column or an oprah episode.

you speak of a legacy of a broken family caused by the husaban,this marrige was in big trouble way before this whole episode even began,it dont take a mental giant to read between the lines to see whats really going on here if this actually happened EXACTLY the way she said it did which i highly doubt.

the way i see this whole mess is this episode is her way at getting back at her husband for something that she's not letting us know about,this whole mess just dont add up,what this whole deal sounds to me like is that THEIR marrige has been on the rocks for quite a while & they agreed to do this in hopes of bringing back the feelings they once had for each other & all it has done for her is harden an allready hard & vindictive attitude twords their marrige.

as far as im concerned she got exactly what she was looking for out of this & thats ammunition for the upcomming battle,shame on her.

Poor zzzz1. We're attacking him more than the problem we're reviewing. As far as I'm concerned, you can mention whatever you think is right. (not that you need my permission!) But welcome to the forum, and congratulations on diving right into the storm!

But zzzz, it takes two to make a marraige work, right? In this case, I think it's taking two to "dick it up". Hubby for being clueless, and wife for doing something I usually saw girls doing in my younger dating days: They expect you to be a mind reader. I'm sure there are guys who did the same.

Anybody remember that from your younger years, or was it just me? It's a passive agressive type thing where GIRLFRIEND really doesn't want Mexican food, but they say, "Fine. Let's eat Mexican food for, like, the 50th time in a row." And being somewhat clueless to the emotions of others at that age (not to mention the art of sarcasm), the BOYFRIEND (me) would say, "Yay! Mexican food! Thanks, honey." Then you get to the restaurant, she orders nothing but a glass of water and sits there looking pissed off. Then I say, "Is something wrong, honey?" and, of course, she says, "Nope. I'm fine."

And Clueless Boyfriend goes back to his burrito.

As I matured, I solved this problem. (And no, it wasn't by marrying a woman who likes Mexican food. )

The things I've learned on this board act as reinforcement for what I already knew back when we got engaged: Communicate. Care about your partner as much as you care about yourself. Be honest about your feelings. Keep your priorities straight; what is number one goal? What's number two or three goal? I haven't met anyone on this forum who's number one goal is swinging. Not one person here. Interesting and instructional, don't you think? Oh, and because I think it's the thing stressed on Swingersboard the most, I'll say it again. Communicate.

Mr. Little Bird

thank you for your reply...everything i said was absolute...we get married then change the rules...thats ok...but when we try to bring someone else into our train of thought ...we have to be prepared to accept NO....he wasn't prepared...he should have done his homework...i still say its all his fault ....remember she was reacting...he was the driving force...not her...she simply gave in to it.

 

by the way i married my high school sweetheart in 1979...she passed away in 2004...hmmm thats a pretty good couple dynamic...how many years have you been with your partner?...the fact that you think not even one person should understand her point of view, tells me that you are an advocate...how far would you go to save your marriage? she should not be treated so badly...she opened herself to the idea, even though she didnt want to...i know it looks bad, but she was doing her best...she may have made the wrong decision, but that is all...counseling? NO...she just married the wrong guy (maybe)...if he wanted to have other women...he should have told her before he married her...shes just a good woman, who wanted to live a different lifestyle...isnt that ok....or do you want everyone to be a swinger (smile)...

Well, I guess the previous answers you got from other members cover up most of what I had to tell you.

I just want to call your attention to something pertaining the dynamics of a forum like this one.

There are couples that participate togheter in the forum, both under the same nickname (signing up as the Mr. or the Mrs.) or under two different nicknames. But most of the members doest it on their own.

Then, when someone ask for advice about a situation, he/she is providing only one half of the story. Even when being face to face with someone we could be proficient enough to make a good guess about the other half of the story, in this written media we lack the tools to do the same. So, we shouldn't give for granted what's the other half of the story just from this one, because we risk to make a HUGE mistake by reinforcing the missunderstanding the OP has about his/her own problem. And I believe this is a perfect example of this.

I'd invite you to read some of my other posts when someone asked for advice. I take care of talking ONLY about the OP, and about the information provided by the OP, and I AVOID assuming the OP properly addressed the intentions of everyone's else mentioned, nor the the OP properly understand theyr behavior, moreover because the OP is the one who's showing the problem's "symptom" to the point of coming here to ask for the advice of a bunch of strangers, thus I may assume the OP is in pain and the pain is likely to cloud the OP mind.

Should the OP husband were here giving us his half of the story, telling us his wife framed him by engaging into a swinging activity after being pushed to be able to punish him, I would be disregarding all he said her wife did to punish him, and criticizing him for being so pushy that he leaded her to take this "punishment measure". And if indeed he were feeling punished here, then, that he asked for it and deserves it.

But you should realize this is theoretical, the fact is, this theory would assume this guy is here telling the same story, the same way. But he isn't here, right? So, I'd rather save whatever I could say about him until he actually show up asking for advice.

In the other hand, I have the impressiong that you may believe this is some sort of "swingers support group" where people gather to feel better about "the problem". Swinging isn't "a problem", nor it was the problem for the OP, but it can be seen as a amplifier of what a couple already have, the good and the bad things.

We're not here to make people "feel better", but to help them think, understand, and isolate the problems that may lead them into troubles inside the lifestyle. It'd be pointless to give the OP a "cyber hug", the OP is supposed to have friends and people around to hug him/her for real, and because of the closeness these people oppinion is likely to be less "asceptic" than the one the OP could get from here, so I try to be as "asceptic" as I can.

So, I won't tell her ANYTHING about her husband, but about HERSELF, and the fact is, she screwed things up big time and she're facing three options here:

1) get divorced.

2) keep married by playing dumb.

3) keep married by working on the problem.

The options 1 and 2 are the easiest ones, she doesn't need our advice for this matter, nor I am interested to provide such an advice. I will advice with the third option in sight, and for this option, she needs to stop whining, she have to stop looking around for people supporting her mistakes, and she have to take responsibility for her own actions. She may not want to do it, I know, but I won't lie to her just to "help her feel better", but I am telling her: do it, or else pick options 1 or 2.

Your advice, in the other hand, seems to have the option 2 in sight, and option that wouldn't stick to the standards this forum memberst stand for, and I'd say, the standards most swingers stand for. It was because of this that I was harsh on your post, and that I questioned your marital experience.

Mmkay. zzzzzz1, you sound like a troll. Your tone is argumentative, and many of your points appear to be oppositional to the whole philosophy of swinging. One of the main principles is self-accountability, where you remove your reactionary response and accept blame where blame is due. Was there anything she could've done to avoid the hurt that was caused? Uh...YEAH!

 

 

 

She is not responsible for her husband's bad behaviour, but she sure as hell is responsible for her own. So he pushed. But it's his fault that she didn't stick to her principles and she eventually gave in? Not only gave in, but played the martyr in order to punish him. Yes, she was reacting, and that - right there! - is the problem. She was reacting instead of thinking. "...she simply gave in to it." Simply? This is the biggest part of the problem, not a minor detail! She had the power to end this folly at that very point, yet she decided to use it to her advantage to punish her husband...because she was hurt that he wanted other women. Now, I still think her husband is an ass for pushing her like that. Poke a dog with a stick enough times and you shouldn't be surprised when you get bit. If it was her husband on here, don't doubt that he'd have his butt chewed right off for being so selfish and callous. But it's her we're talking to. And my harshness in my assessment of the situation is no indicator of how much sympathy I feel. I feel very badly that anyone has to be stuck in that kind of situation. I truly do. But I get a little frustrated when people complain about being in a destructive rut like this, yet they refuse to help themselves; they just want a pat on the back and to be told "Everything will be okay, you did nothing wrong, it's all your husband's fault." So your post gave her exactly what she sought, but it won't help her one bit. All that does is put a bandaid on a spurting artery. If she wants things fixed, she'll have to do it herself, and it won't be pleasant because she'll have to face up to her own mistakes, too...not just telling her husband about his.

 

 

 

Been married 12 years with two kids. No, not 25 years yet, but I see no reason at all to think we won't be together. Not when marriage is a blessing instead of a chore.

 

 

Oh...about as far as it takes to swallow my foolish pride and question my own actions, motivations and intentions. It takes so much less effort to simply blame someone else. And who says we don't understand her point of view?? Perhaps the reason some of us are so forthcoming about our opinions of it, is because we can directly relate to that very point of view! You don't suppose we were all born swingers, do you? Oh no. Many of us were as "vanilla" as they come.

 

 

 

She's not being treated badly. We're just being honest with her, and we do this for her own good. Kudos to her for even considering swinging; many people do not allow themselves to even consider anything but strict monogamy. We promise, the finger-wagging WILL stop once she gives us an indication that she understands what we're trying to tell her. It is out of concern for her and her husband that we respond this way, not because we enjoy pissing in someone's corn flakes.

 

 

Hmmm. Well...I believe that it is possible for any two people to be in love with one another, because love is a choice we make, not something we wait expectantly for. However, I'd agree with you that it's still unwise to pair two people together whose basic goals and personalities are constantly at odds with one another. I guess the question now is whether or not there is a point to their marriage, considering how different their outlooks/goals are. But you can't blame swinging for that; these outlooks/goals were already there, hidden, before this situation revealed them. And no, we don't want anyone who isn't into it to try swinging, because this kind of drama is the result. And it really is like someone pissing in the pool of potential play-partners. It means everybody's got to get out of the pool while they drain it and clean it. :rollseyes In other words, the other couple likely had a crappy evening, too (or at least the other guy did). If these two had had their act together before they jumped in, no doubt everyone would've had a fabulous time. But instead, one couple dragged their emotional baggage into a situation that shouldn't have had any.

intuition 897...you called me a troll? ok if you say so...im a troll..if you say so...im whatever you want me to be...but i would never call you out of your name...i am developing an argument...therefore it would be the act of argumentation, not argumentative at all, i am fond of sex, not arguments...remember we are talking about them..not us..we have already made our decision...wait! actually, i am brand new to the pursuit, but not the thought...he should have known that it takes two...but he pushed anyway...id like to think that if you asked your partner to do it and he said NO, that you would have respected his decision...she could care less about the philosophy of swinging...like i said, you're an advocate... i agree that she should share the responsibility, but there wasn't much said about his responsibility...imagine your partner asking you to eat s##t because it turned him on...what woud you do? leave? well she decided she did not want to break up her marriage because of his fetish, so she tried it, didnt like it and did not have the emotional academics to resolve HER problem...

12 years of marriage? thats good...congrats...you know 892 i have to beg to disagree with your statement about who we love...love chooses us...we dont choose love...we can't...love is a gift to us, a gift that must be given...its the reason we are here...just my take on that....can you imagine life without your partner...there are reasons beyond your control that could separate you and your husband...please dont take anything for granted...marriage is a blessing that comes with chores...you may hate your chores or love them...but there are chores in anything that is successful...we must maintain....it sounds like you have the perfect relationship with yours, indeed you are blessed...

welcome to cyberspace...i dont know who im talking to until i see that person.. for all i know it could be the husband thats writing and getting all this feedback...so, he will know what to do (smile)...smart man, if so...because the raw feedback from the posted comments, seemed to be genuine...i like that...so, if he planned on doing it..he won't now...

you know, if everybody knew what to do all the time, it would change the world drastically...she didnt know what to do, period...therefore she did her best...shes not any of the things she was called...she is all/any of us making a mistake and being misunderstood...

good talking to you...wish me luck

p.s. it took me all day to answer all your responses...i laughed when i saw how many...

i had a great time answering each one of them...your punctuation, grammar and writing skills are impressive....

Poor zzzz1. We're attacking him more than the problem we're reviewing. As far as I'm concerned, you can mention whatever you think is right. (not that you need my permission!) But welcome to the forum, and congratulations on diving right into the storm!

 

But zzzz, it takes two to make a marraige work, right? In this case, I think it's taking two to "dick it up". Hubby for being clueless, and wife for doing something I usually saw girls doing in my younger dating days: They expect you to be a mind reader. I'm sure there are guys who did the same.

 

Anybody remember that from your younger years, or was it just me? It's a passive agressive type thing where GIRLFRIEND really doesn't want Mexican food, but they say, "Fine. Let's eat Mexican food for, like, the 50th time in a row." And being somewhat clueless to the emotions of others at that age (not to mention the art of sarcasm), the BOYFRIEND (me) would say, "Yay! Mexican food! Thanks, honey." Then you get to the restaurant, she orders nothing but a glass of water and sits there looking pissed off. Then I say, "Is something wrong, honey?" and, of course, she says, "Nope. I'm fine."

 

And Clueless Boyfriend goes back to his burrito.

 

As I matured, I solved this problem. (And no, it wasn't by marrying a woman who likes Mexican food. )

 

The things I've learned on this board act as reinforcement for what I already knew back when we got engaged: Communicate. Care about your partner as much as you care about yourself. Be honest about your feelings. Keep your priorities straight; what is number one goal? What's number two or three goal? I haven't met anyone on this forum who's number one goal is swinging. Not one person here. Interesting and instructional, don't you think? Oh, and because I think it's the thing stressed on Swingersboard the most, I'll say it again. Communicate.

 

Mr. Little Bird

im just trying to see what swinging is all about...its getting even more interesting, knowing that the intellectual level is so high...intuitive892 wore me out...

what a line of s#!t your spewing out ! your post reads like something out of the old ann landers column or an oprah episode.

 

you speak of a legacy of a broken family caused by the husaban,this marrige was in big trouble way before this whole episode even began,it dont take a mental giant to read between the lines to see whats really going on here if this actually happened EXACTLY the way she said it did which i highly doubt.

 

the way i see this whole mess is this episode is her way at getting back at her husband for something that she's not letting us know about,this whole mess just dont add up,what this whole deal sounds to me like is that THEIR marrige has been on the rocks for quite a while & they agreed to do this in hopes of bringing back the feelings they once had for each other & all it has done for her is harden an allready hard & vindictive attitude twords their marrige.

 

as far as im concerned she got exactly what she was looking for out of this & thats ammunition for the upcomming battle,shame on her.

wow! i guess you are very opinionated...thats cool...you disagree...but a line of shit?...not...just a different opinion...however, i do share your cynicalness...we really dont know enough about their situtation or the veracity of the statements to come to a definitive conclusion...

thanks

have fun

I think it's funny how so long after the OP has even responded, people are arguing points on a situation they don't even know all the details of... because we never know all the details in someone else's situation.

I won't say what the differences are, but I will say I've heard a different version of this same situation from the OP. The reason I dind't reply in this thread was because it differed so much from the version she gave me privately. Basically, she left a few details out in this public version (which I hope she returns and fills in) as well as some of her own feedback/reaction to the situation.

Again, I hope the OP returns and fills in the blanks that she knows she left in this story. In the meantime, there's no point in debating the topic.

yeah i would have to concur with what basically everone else says here. essentially she knew exactly what was going on from the beginning. she does this knowing what will happen and now wants it back to "normal". yes your husband was pushy. and yet you didn't say no doesn't matter if he kept pushing. she probably already had they therapist lined up! this lady does sound very manipulative and the person i feel the worst for is the other couple. especially the other husband that got the short end of the stick. oh and i really doubt they knew exactly what they were getting into.

this asking swingers about advice is probably also something she planned out. sort of "a see look they dont think like "normal" people. they should be on my side!"

...this asking swingers about advice is probably also something she planned out. sort of "a see look they dont think like "normal" people. they should be on my side!"

Classic and Priceless.

Male D

I was in this situation 7 years ago. Mr. Vixen wanted to try swinging and, at the time, I was terribly offended. I told him flat out NO....I was raised so strictly and had been burned so badly by the opposite sex. I was in no frame of mind to undertstand the concept. However, I told him NO...flat out...I knew at that time I would not be able to see him with another partner.

However, within the last few years, our relationship has really cemented itself. We are at a point now where I am confident enough in myself to know if he has sex with another woman, he's not looking for another life partner. Not only that, but I see now that he could have involved himself without asking me so long ago. Now, I'm just as excited about our "first time" as he is, although there eill be boundaries....set well in advance of our first "encounter".

I hope you can both move on from this experience. More importantly, I hope you can repair the damage that was done to your heart before you and your husband ever considered swinging.

One final note~

Kudos to our male counterparts for understanding that sex has little or nothing to do with love right from the beginning. It takes most of us women YEARS to figure that out!

It takes most of us women YEARS to figure that out!

Ain't that the truth!!

Lets cut to the chase....the odds that counseling is going to repair your marriage are about the same that you will win the lotto.

It sounds to me like you had "issues" before this swap took place. And, while there are two sides to every story, if your story bears any likeness to the truth, your husband is a selfish jerk. How could he miss what a miserable time you were having? Obviously he was more interested in his own satisfaction.

Bottom line, you have a serious fracture in this relationship. Bite the bullet, acknowledge the raw truth and make a decision, stay or walk away!

Good luck