Where does your head go?

What happens in your head when an all-out orgy breaks out all around you?

My wife and I have a lot of fun but I'm much less experienced with sex itself than she is, and lately it has become clear that it doesn't take much for me to get overwhelmed when things go too quickly. It especially throws me off if we're with new people and a new guy fucks my wife very quickly as soon as things get started. I see it happening and I suddenly feel extremely pressured and threatened and I lose interest in sex. I don't lose my ability to get an erection but I end up limp and sidelined because I just shut down and I'm barely interested. I just get overwhelmed and scared. If we're just with one other person or if we're with a couple who I feel comfortable with then no worries, but this almost always happens with new people who we don't know well yet. It bugs the crap out of me because our normal pattern lately is that the new guy will tag my wife but I won't feel comfortable enough to jump his girl until the second or third time. Sometimes there isn't a second or third time and I just end up denied, and I'm sure that the women involved aren't thrilled with me. In the long term I'm a big success and women love me but I just have a lot of trouble meeting new people. My wife is a natural slut but I'm just not.

I decided after thinking about it that my problem is just that I don't have a place where my head can go when things start to get hot. If you have ever seen one of the dogs on the Dog Whisperer show who don't have a pack leader and who spin aimlessly out of control, that's me. I'm very in tune with my wife at all times and I look to her for permission to do this or that or flirt with this girl or not or whatever, and when she gets another cock in her and I lose my connection with her for that few minutes, I spin out of control. I feel apprehensive the whole time and I feel like it's not 'okay' for me to go off on my own. I can tell myself that it obviously is 'okay' and everybody else is having a great time, but I don't know how to put myself at ease. I just don't have a paradigm for how to process what's going on when a bunch of people suddenly get sexual all around me.

At one point this weekend I was having this problem at a party with three other couples where we only knew one couple and the other three couples all knew each other already. The two new guys made a line in front of my wife and one of them had a condom on and was fucking her within five minutes of the first nakedness breaking out. I don't mind and I'm glad that she can make new friends so easily but it really threw me off of my game. After that I was just not that interested in what was going on, even though there were two new women trying to make it clear that they wanted me. I got with the girl who I already knew pretty well and started trying to have some fun with her and I was just blocked mentally. Very preoccupied with where my wife was and what was happening to her, and feeling like I was being ineffective with the girls and like I was doing something wrong. Just very self conscious. A beautiful girl was going down on me and I was just running at half-staff and barely processing what was happening because it was so overwhelming that I was blocking it out as it was happening. Like you do for emotional trauma as it's happening, your brain just denies accepting it, 'this isn't happening, this isn't happening, this can't be happening...'

At one point I remembered something that my wife had said a few minutes earlier to encourage me, "You know, these women WANT to be submissive to you, just grab one and do what you want with her." I kept that in my mind and imagined my friend as a porn starlet going down on me. She's hot enough, it wasn't a stretch. I immediately got past that block and instantly got rock hard, and as long as I kept thinking of her like a piece of food that I wanted to consume for my own pleasure, everything worked out just fine. But I still had a lot of trouble keeping my head in the right spot because of all of the distractions. Any little distraction brought me out of it and I never did get up the courage to jump on the two female strangers that night even though I'm totally confident that I'm hot enough that it would have been a treat for them. I don't have a place to go in my head that works with new girls because it feels disrespectful to treat a total stranger like food.

Does anybody else have to be consciously aware of allowing themselves to relax and enjoy what's going on? If so, what do you think about? Are you a porn stud drilling a porn starlet? Is she a call girl? You're a gigolo? Are these mental places too role-playey to be practical?

I think that maybe it's kind of like going to sleep. Some people don't think about it at all and they just crash out but some people have to concentrate on counting sheep or they have to meditate on keeping a clear head or whatever. I know that I need some kind of mental fantasy mantra like counting sheep to give myself permission to relax and enjoy the swinging when it happens, but I'm not sure what works.

My wife and I communicate well and she supports me, the people who we play with respect me and want me to have fun, I have no regrets after anything that happens, we have enough experience to know what we want, none of those classic things are wrong here. It's just that now that I know how to set up fantasy situations, I don't know how to give myself permission to enjoy them. Any help from anybody who can empathize is greatly appreciated.

Wow great post! We have friends who don't like to do the full swap/same room thing for the very same reason (on her part). She said she was always watching her hubby and couldn't get into the moment. They started doing seperate rooms and it worked out for them.

I would guess that some people love to see their partners and some people don't. I loved your analogy of the dog whisperer. I initially thought of some kind of meditation or fantasy role play, which you then said works. Maybe in those instances instead of thinking "oooohhhhmmm" think "baw chicka baw baw". Play that funky porn music

Mrs LOL

You teach your mind how to think. That's the "Real" reason for seeing a therapist. Condition your mind. Find solutions that work for you to accomplish your goal.

You said by thinking of your partner as a porn star it helped you overcome your issue, thats a good start then. But you'll need to practice it repeatedly to teach your mind.

To me it seems the root of your concern is that your to involved in what your wife is doing and what is happening to her. I think by shifting your thought patterns to "The Porn Star" your mind becomes pre-occupied with that and shifts focus away from your wife.

I think that's the key. Do things that occupy your space and ignore what your wife is doing. Turn your back. Do not look in her direction. Find a seperate room, a seperate corner, think about other things, etc.

It's not an ignore switch you can turn off and on, but you can practice and condition your mind.

Right exactly, training my mind. I can see that if I just had a place for my head to go at these moments then I would be fine and I could have a lot of fun. I'm totally open-minded about learning new things I just don't quite know what to do with my mind yet.

Is it safe to say that most people are actually NOT thinking about much during orgies? I had always kind of assumed that the people around me were zoned out in pleasure rather than holding some kinky fantasy in their heads. When I watch porn alone I zone out in pleasure and barely think about much, or I fixate on some female body part or something. But when the porn is really happening around me in real life my brain just locks up, like 'WTF is happening?'

We have dabbled a little in the separate rooms thing and it does help me a little. Once I think. Having my playmate all alone in a one-on-one setting was more familiar to me and I had a great time. I would really rather be with my wife though, at least near her. That's why I'm trying learn to handle the situations that overload me.

It especially throws me off if we're with new people and a new guy fucks my wife very quickly as soon as things get started. I see it happening and I suddenly feel extremely pressured and threatened and I lose interest in sex.

I wonder if the key for this is here in this statement? Have you thought about exactly what aspect of it makes you feel extremely pressured? and threatened? Maybe by figuring out these issues, you'll get a grasp on the whole picture better.

Also, have you and your wife discussed slowing things down? Maybe you are simply a man at a different pace and don't like the rushing into it. My husband and I are both like this. We like the sensual side of sex, we like building up, we like foreplay. For us, the whole experience is just better this way. We like to be with people we feel relaxed with. Maybe this is more your taste, too?? If so, there's nothing wrong with you, and you don't have a problem, you just have preferences that aren't the rushing-into-orgy style.

Yes, correct, I strongly prefer a slower start. I don't mind fucking on the first date but I almost never do. My wife, no problem she's very friendly, bring it on. I like lots of slow and relaxed foreplay and dim lights, but some of our friends like to just walk into the apartment and go at it immediately under the florescents and everything. Once I feel comfortable and familiar with a woman I have a great time. It just takes a long time for me to get my head into the right place and for my dick to follow. Decades of societal (Catholic) training and years of being surrounded by soft-swap couples with women who don't appreciate me touching them have left me unable to just assume that it's okay to touch. So when we meet a new couple and the guy does assume that it's okay to touch, well that's true it is but he ends up getting laid and I don't.

I'm asking how to change me instead of how to change the situation because we aren't newbies. We've slowed enough people down and frustrated enough people that it's time for me to learn to suck it up and experience things in a different way. We're meeting more friends who have fewer hangups and having a great time. At this point it's my responsiblity to learn to play with the big boys. I just have the hardest time visualizing how that's supposed to work for me.

Also, I just posted about this in the newbies section, but the idea that the norm is for swinging to proceed at the pace of the slowest person is purely mythological. It just doesn't happen that way. ESPECIALLY if the slowest person is male. All of the "We like to start slowly and ease into it" conversations in the world, even with the most respectful and compassionate of people, won't prevent that moment from coming along too soon where the other guy has one hand on the condom that he's putting on and the other hand on your wife's hip. Swinging isn't a conversation, it isn't like planning lunch. People don't stop what they're doing every five minutes to chat and make sure that what they're doing is okay with everybody. That's just unrealistic. At least part of my problem originally stems from reading too many Internet forum posts on the subject and getting unrealistic expectations in my head about how much I can expect people to defer to me being the slowest person in the room.

What actually happens is that your wife is the new girl who the other guy has never had before, and he will want to get his erection into her within five minutes of seeing her naked even if he's trying to remember in the back of his head to slow down. That's just the reality of how it works. I don't want to become the guy who can effectively communicate with that guy that he needs to slow down, I want to become the guy who just doesn't care because he's also tagging some strange.

Still just not sure where my mind should be. I get that "HOLY CRAP THAT GUY IS PUTTING A CONDOM ON AND HE'S ABOUT TO FUCK MY WIFE WITH THAT HUGE COCK!!!!" is not the smoothest thing that I can be thinking about but I just don't have an alternative mental state to go to.

TeamSoBe -

I think when people talk about going only as fast as the slowest person, they are talking about the TWO people in the couple, in this case you and your wife. You need to have a talk with your wife about your issue, she is the one that needs to slow down to your pace. This seems like something that needs to be taken care of between the two of you, before you get into any swing situations.

Jenn

Hello, I can so very much relate. I am the male half of our little duo and I am just like you. I am pretty shy and reserved and my lovely wife is anything but. So, it winds up that she's into all kinds of fun and I am trying to get warmed up.

A lot of it for me is I like to really know that my play partner is comfortable with me and likes me. I can't get it through my thick head that if they are even playing with me a little, flirting etc, they are interested. That is my dilemma. It is taking time and practice. I also have had the same thoughts, wow, look my wife it getting or about to get the senses fucked out of her. I want her to have a good time, thats not the issue. I am just why am I not moving faster and then I start wondering if my partner is really into me and start the whole head thing.

All I can say is it takes practice to get it in your head that you are liked and your play partners WANT to play with you. We to are from So. Fla and understand where you are coming from with the SoBe girl/girl crowd, even looking at one of them the wrong way can upset them. And now you are in a totally differet dynamic and need to adjust your head to it. All I can say is practice being more aggressive and going with the flow. We are on SDC and VL and would love to chat and discuss. I'd take any hints that anyone offers. It is nice in a way to know someome close to home is similar. It seems all we meet are couples where the guy is totaly comfortable with whatever in 5 minutes time and the female half is more reserved and when you combine 2 shy people things take time. Keep at it, it gets better. you have to unlearn what you learned hanging with the SoBe girl/girl crowd.

Mr B&J

B&J, I like your idea of attenuating your perception of positive signals. Lowering the flirtation bar. There are times and places where if a girl smiles at me, that means a whole lot more than "good afternoon", it means "I came here looking for a warm meat injection and you'll do just fine".

There was a moment that I can remember clearly from the weekend, where one of the new girls was hanging out next to me. She would play with the pile of people that was in front of us (I think I was fucking my wife at the time) and just kind of hang out there next to me. I would look at her and she would just smile at me.

Uhm, okay, HELLO ASSHOLE SHE WANTS YOU TO BONE HER. Maybe the mantra that I'll repeat in my head will be "This girl is easy and she expects me to be too." Silly for me to expect elaborate signals when everything is so overt already. Hm. Thanks.

What happens in your head when an all-out orgy breaks out all around you?

I think- "Shit, I am a rock star!!!"

I would have answered more seriously (although that's not untrue) but everyone has already given such good advice.

You mention you are submissive with your wive, perhaps you could try taking control a few times. Perhaps you have some sort of need to be the one pleasing your wife instead of her pleasing you? If you role play a little (which could be fun for the both of you anyway) perhaps that could help you make that same leap when you are in a group setting.

That make any sense?

Still just not sure where my mind should be. I get that "HOLY CRAP THAT GUY IS PUTTING A CONDOM ON AND HE'S ABOUT TO FUCK MY WIFE WITH THAT HUGE COCK!!!!" is not the smoothest thing that I can be thinking about but I just don't have an alternative mental state to go to.

Now for me this would give me an instant hard on and I'd love to watch this happen. This is a major turn on for me.

It's not a turn on for you. Why does your mind think, "Holy Crap that guy is about to fuck my wife...." as a negative? Why does it bother you so? This sounds like the emotions of a first time swinger newbie experience, not someone who has attended several parties.

You say when you see this it shuts you down. Maybe you don't want to be in the swing lifestyle and you are a team player for your wife who does?

Is there some negative feeling you have about your wife having sex with a different male? Do you feel Rejected? Ignored? Upset? Mad? Not Loved? Jealous? Afraid? Are you concerned she will like another more than you? Are you concerned you will loose her?

Have you tried you and another male fucking your wife at the same time MMF?If so how did that work out for you?

I just think you are way to involved with what your wife is doing. Like I said before, create your own space and stay out of your wifes space. Seperate your thoughts from what your wife is doing. Don't even look over there where she is. Focus on the body of the woman you are with. Admire her breasts and nipples, her eyes, imagine how it would feel to have her suck your cock. Explore her body with your hands, feel the wetness of her pussy. Imagine the taste of her, that she wants you and she wants to feel you inside of her.

Heck, thinking those things is enough to zone me out and get me focused as you say you can when you are watching porn.

Am I at liberty to say that you have had discussions with your wife and she has basically told you in more words or less that it's your problem and you'll need to work it out because she doesn't plan on stopping swinging because of it?

It could be like others have said in that it has something to do with your just a slow starter. However unusual for a guy, that is also something that is a part of the mix. I don't think that in itself is conditional.

Sounds to me like, as good as your communication is, your wife is just not "getting" you. Go back to the basics and communicate. Also, you should probably stick with 1 couple at a time rather than the orgy thing - LOL, I know how South Beach is, but resist the temptation to get farther in the water than you are ready for. Swim close to shore for awhile. The more confidence you get under your belt, the better off you will be. Give it time...

I don't feel negative about a guy jumping her. I feel negative about not being able to keep up. We've been together for seven years now and the first time that I saw her with another guy was seven years ago, and regularly ever since. We've done all kinds of MMF and MFMF, some FFM, quite a bit of MFMFMF, some MFMFMFMF, and even some MFMFMFMFMFMMFFFMMMFFFMMFMF. We have waded into the water over seven years, it can't get any slower. We're ready I swear.

My wife is my personal porn star and I absolutely LOVE watching her fuck. So much so that I don't have much interest in new girls while it's happening. When you pick up a little puppy by the scruff of their neck they go slack and they zone out. I'm like that when somebody is fucking my wife. I just want to see the look on her face and kiss her and feel her getting thrusted into. So hot. If that weren't going on then I would be very interested in finding a role for myself at these parties, but I have about a five minute window where nobody is fucking her at the beginning of the party. She's a hot little thing and guys at parties just want to bone her. I had this great theory for a while that I would just hang with her and watch her to get turned on and then it would be my turn. But I guess she's just too hot for guys to leave alone at any point so it's just never my turn. Even if she takes a break to encourage me and watch me with somebody, that will last for about two minutes before I look up and somebody is pushing another condom into her, which is INSANELY distracting to me. So the idea of taking turns ended up leading to me just being left waaaaaaaaay behind while I sat there waiting for 'my turn'. I need to learn to give myself permission to go off and take my turn while she's still sprawled out.

The only negative thing that I was thinking this weekend when the two new guys ganged up on her was that I just can't keep up with her. That feels shitty. Very shitty. But that's all, I was having a great time other than that. We spent all night not-too-drunk, communicating well, and she kept breaking away from what she was doing to check on me. I felt like she was supporting me better than she ever had but yet still the same pattern. What's she going to do, tell people 'No'? We do want to be there and be involved so that's not an option. If anything I'm at fault for feeling shitty because I didn't stop her, but that goes back to what I was saying about it coming down to me deciding that I'm going to learn to get into it rather than always trying to stop things that are already started. Why go to all of the trouble to set something up if I'm going to just stop it?

Saturday night a million things were 'off' for me. Four people I'd never met and could barely talk to. Two new women who sorry to be honest but my wife is much more attractive and I had to compel myself to take an interest. Apartment was FREEZING COLD the whole time and we had eight people in an apartment with one queen-sized bed, hardwood floors and no other furniture. I'm not exactly an old pro with condoms and somebody handed me a kind that I've never heard of that have a 'numbing agent' that makes your dick totally lose all sensation, which totally kept me from getting it up even if the shivering and goose bumps and scrotal shrinkage and general self-consciousness under bright florescents with strangers hadn't done that trick already. Not the kind of place where a guy who has trouble getting comfortable is going to do well. But regardless I had fun, I did nail my wife and my favorite girlfriend (twice each) and I went down on two strangers. No regrets other than what I'm talking about here about how I wish I could keep up with my wife once the party starts.

For a long time I was thinking that my problem was that we're meeting the wrong people, and maybe if we could just meet a couple who were more compassionate and patient then I could ease into a comfort zone. Changed our onlinen profile around to feature me out front instead of dangling naked wife in front of strangers. But we've met lots of great people and nope, it's me. We keep one couple close because that describes them exactly but even with them the guy was still on my wife way too quickly for me the first time or two. I just sucked it up and we kept calling them and after the second or third meeting I have a BLAST. The norm is just for guys to jump on new girls and drill them really early, so I want to learn to be the norm.

I just really wish that the cost of meeting new people wasn't feeling shitty and unable to keep up. Every time we meet new people I feel this.

One thing I noticed, you said you were just off one night. That is a concrete reason to stay home. Both of us have been there and if we do go out and we have, it invariably does not work out well. Sometimes people are just off and either of you should be able to call it. Like I said, we've been there and done that. The person who is off has to expend a lot if intellectual energy trying to get in the right frame of mind which actually makes it worse for them. Think of it this way, you are off and while that makes it harder on you, it does come across to your play partner and you are not, well, giving your best game and we all want our playmates to enjoy the time they spend with us as much as possible. I know I do and in talking, my wife wants our playmates to not think that Mr BJ is a crappy lay, not a good reflection on either of us. An off evening can do just that.

So B&J69 and I chat a bit in private and it turns out that the favorite girlfriend who I'm talking about here is a girl who he gets busy with too. We're friends-of-friends. Geeze, talk about finding a forum reader who can identify with me!

Yeah I was really off that night. If I had just had a friggen place to lay down and get comfortable then I think that I could have at least finished the race. The wife and I have been so busy for months and months with no opportunities to party that I made the conscious decision to stay in the game even though I knew that I wasn't going to be impressing anybody.

Once we got away from that party and back to more intimate settings with our close friends (and once that numbing rubber wore off of me!) I jumped our mutual friend and had my way with her and had a great time. I had been in the middle of doing that at the party when I suddenly couldn't feel anything, and it was important to me to at least show her a good time. And then my wife. Twice. I was down with the program, I just wasn't exactly an MVP athlete during the big social group scene. Slow to start but then wowee I'm Superman. I just want to learn a place where I can put my head in the beginning so that I can be Superman way earlier and way quicker.

Edison here-- Okay, I think you're thinking too much. In some ways we never leave high school, do we ? I think it would do you a lot of good to try and play on your wife's level. Make a decision to be appropriately assertive. It's tough the first time because, frankly you've got too much going on in your head about where you fit in the group, whether the woman will accept you, blah, blah, blah. Trust me, the other man is saying,"This woman wants sex and I'm just the man to give it to her !" Here's an idea, talk to your wife that during the next group scene you get to have her first. This will embolden you a bit, pave the way for her next partner. I don't recommend sex until you cum, save yourself a bit, just some great fucking. Then see what other woman wants you, or heck, move to the one that joins in while your doing your wife.

The first time I played with my wife's friends, I was the same way. They all knew each other well and frankly had her on all fours in short order . The next time I decided to play more on her level and was responded to very well by the women present. It was so much more fun to play on Susan's level than to slow down to mine.

I don't feel negative about a guy jumping her. I feel negative about not being able to keep up.

Keep up?

but I have about a five minute window where nobody is fucking her at the beginning of the party. She's a hot little thing and guys at parties just want to bone her. I had this great theory for a while that I would just hang with her and watch her to get turned on and then it would be my turn. But I guess she's just too hot for guys to leave alone at any point so it's just never my turn. Even if she takes a break to encourage me and watch me with somebody, that will last for about two minutes before I look up and somebody is pushing another condom into her, which is INSANELY distracting to me.

It is incumbent upon her to let the other men know, she is not wanting anything at that moment, she is enjoying her husband for a little while.

The only negative thing that I was thinking this weekend when the two new guys ganged up on her was that I just can't keep up with her. That feels shitty. Very shitty. But that's all, I was having a great time other than that. We spent all night not-too-drunk, communicating well, and she kept breaking away from what she was doing to check on me. I felt like she was supporting me better than she ever had but yet still the same pattern. What's she going to do, tell people 'No'? We do want to be there and be involved so that's not an option. Why go to all of the trouble to set something up if I'm going to just stop it?

YES, she should tell them NO, if it is an uncomfortable situation for you, then out of respect for YOU, SHE should say no to the others. Not trying to bash HER, just making an observation.

Why stop it? Hello? That is the whole "don't take one for the team" concept kicking in. She should not be putting you into, and you should not allow yourself to be in, the position of just doing because she's busy. If it's not working for you, the reason is immaterial. Mrs and I have an understanding, even if we are in "mid stroke" if one of us says stop, all play stops. Period, no questions asked. It is out of respect for each other, our (soon to be) marriage (or your relationship, however you choose to define it-no offense intended to those that choose not to be married, but are a committed couple), and our swinging lifestyle. If we do not have that safety valve, that bond, that comfort of knowing that each other will be there for the other, we could not make this work. THAT would be counter-productive to fun in the lifestyle

Saturday night a million things were 'off' for me. Four people I'd never met and could barely talk to. Two new women who sorry to be honest but my wife is much more attractive and I had to compel myself to take an interest. Apartment was FREEZING COLD the whole time and we had eight people in an apartment with one queen-sized bed, hardwood floors and no other furniture. I'm not exactly an old pro with condoms and somebody handed me a kind that I've never heard of that have a 'numbing agent' that makes your dick totally lose all sensation, which totally kept me from getting it up even if the shivering and goose bumps and scrotal shrinkage and general self-consciousness under bright florescents with strangers hadn't done that trick already. Not the kind of place where a guy who has trouble getting comfortable is going to do well. But regardless I had fun, I did nail my wife and my favorite girlfriend (twice each) and I went down on two strangers. No regrets other than what I'm talking about here about how I wish I could keep up with my wife once the party starts.

Again-- keep up?

If that many things were off, you should have "called it off" then. That's a bad situation to allow yourself to get into, rather self depricating, isn't it?

I just really wish that the cost of meeting new people wasn't feeling shitty and unable to keep up. Every time we meet new people I feel this.

and again-- keep up? Why must you make it a contest?

Fact: women are capable of much more sexual activity than men. Why? It's a natural biological thing, but it's a fact.

YOU WILL NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER BE ABLE TO KEEP UP WITH ANY WOMAN Any man that believes he can is either a fool or a porn star.

I'm not trying to be harsh, man, I'm just trying to say maybe it's time you guys took a break, re-examined why you are in this, and why it stopped being fun for you. If it ain't fun, what's the point?

Whew.....sorry, damn soapbox comes out so easily some times.

Mr twofer......steppin' down now.

YOU WILL NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER BE ABLE TO KEEP UP WITH ANY WOMAN Any man that believes he can is either a fool or a porn star.

Alright...I'm a fool and a porn star...and never doubt me on that again. Yippee! I have had a couple ladies that just had to stop. They weren't used to the constant flow of orgasmic bliss...

There have also been those times where I could not get it up with a crane! Hey...It happens. Is it because of where my head went, had been or where it was going? Somedays the timing is just really really off. Glad someone found they could at least try to have a good time while this was happening.

Male D

Wow interesting posts that got me thinking. We have another friend who says he can't come when swinging in a full swap situation. He can keep on goin and the women tell him to stop. He's kind of wound like a drum personality wise, and I remember women saying that to be able to orgasm (as a woman) you have to relax.

Could it be that a man needs to somewhat relax to get an erection? And then also he needs to relax to climax? Really, I dunno how you guys live with those things....

Mrs

I Love your posts and attitude LOL_OMG...

You are right...relaxation is a key. That's why everyone should be on the same page before things get rolling...like an out-of-control-train.

Male D

TeamSoBe, just two ideas:

You're somewhat like me in terms of assertiveness. From what you describe, and your "Dog Whisperer" comment, I can see that you look for external guidance a lot (something I usually bore my therapist with ), so you have to practice assertiveness. I'd also hazard a guess as to the fact that orgies are not the only situation in which you freeze for lack of guidance.

So, practice assertiveness and put more attention on the signals that say "go," instead of those that say "stop." How? Practice. When I was a kid, I usually got tongue-tied when addressing groups of more that one person. After deciding that it wasn't really helping my social life, i decided to do something about it: I went to work as a social activities entertainer at a small company that gave you real, situational training. After a year, when I was 18, I was MC-ing 2,000 person events.

If you're going to be in a situation that makes you freeze, try to change the situation to something that disinhibits and relaxes you. I sometimes start singing: it loosens me up because its a situation in which I've always felt comfortable.

So if you ever see me belting out some odd "Jesus Christ Superstar" song, you'll know I'm getting nervous .

On the other hand, Dito what others have said: COMMUNICATE with your wife. Sometimes I've been in your situation, sometimes it's been my wife, and we've never let our bad vibes go unnoticed. That has let us put some real good feedback in our relationship (including swinging), and we're constantly learning to adjust to/for each other.

Alright...I'm a fool and a porn star...and never doubt me on that again. Yippee! I have had a couple ladies that just had to stop. They weren't used to the constant flow of orgasmic bliss...

 

Male D

Surrender Ok, ok, let me re-phrase. Sorry Male D, no offense to your porn star persona intended (gotta stop the late night ramblings, they just don't make sense-even to me)

What I'm talking about is keeping up. Not on a situational basis, but a "return visit" kinda thing.

Sure, some of us can be the energizer bunny and keep going and going, sometimes to the dismay of our partner, but once we pop, it takes a while to re-charge. Some, only a few minutes, depending upon the situation, some a few hours. Every guy is different. (insert a collective "duh" here)

However, from what I have been told, read, seen, studied, women can just go and go. Orgasm after orgasm, not really any rest/recharge in between. (this is a good thing, no? )

My whole point was- OP needs to realize this is not a contest, as I was perceiving he thought it was. (the repeated "keep up" comment) we are here to have fun, enjoy one anothers' company, and enhance our relationships with our SO's, (if the situation warrants), not compete with them to "see how many times we can get laid".

You didn't understand me? That's a first.

M.D.

My whole point was- OP needs to realize this is not a contest, as I was perceiving he thought it was. (the repeated "keep up" comment) we are here to have fun, enjoy one anothers' company, and enhance our relationships with our SO's, (if the situation warrants), not compete with them to "see how many times we can get laid".

Yes I do feel like there's a competition going on sometimes, but I don't mean with my wife. I feel like the other guys in group situations get pretty competitive and I'm not the fight-for-your-food kind of guy so I end up feeling sidelined. Or just irrelevant. The well-known Abandoned Husband Syndrome (AHS).

I used to be really shy about everything horizontal but now I only have this problem in these big group situations with about four couples. Fewer than that, no worries. In a group of that many people there are going to be some dominant aggressive guys who go out after the hottest girls first, and my wife is "It" in that game every time. That's why they take her down and fuck her immediately, because there's always competition for her so guys always wants to grab her and jump on her before somebody else does.

She isn't getting any uglier so I'm going to have to learn to be more assertive, as suggested. I also really need to give myself permission to launch off after another girl instead of hanging out with my wife waiting for her permission or something, because when the cluster of horny guys forms around her she's too busy to worry about me and she doesn't seem to care what I do.

Last time it happened the wife did a great job of checking with me every once in a while and communicating and all of that. I wasn't at all worried about competing with her. And actually I think that I was one of the ones who got off the most times because once I'm in the game I'm really in the game, but that seems irrelevant really.

...relaxation is a key. That's why everyone should be on the same page before things get rolling...like an out-of-control-train.

So what do you do if the train keeps going out of control before you have a chance to relax? The next time a room full of people ditch their clothes and the girls start trying to get their mouths on my dick and the guys start drilling my wife one after the other, I would like to have some place for my head to go other than "WTF?!? SLOW DOWN!!"

To me, the problem is simply that all of this overwhelming action is coming at me full-on and I'm not even excited or interested yet. Like if you guys take your wife and go "Look at this!" and show her the climax scene from a hardcore porn flick without warning her or anything. Even plenty of swingers will think that's too full-on, too fast, to be hot. But that's putting the problem in terms of what other people are doing and I can't change that so apparently I need to become the guy who can realize that he's been dumped into the middle of that scene and get right into it immediately and go with it. For that I need to prepare my head and give it some place to go when that happens.

apparently I need to become the guy who can realize that he's been dumped into the middle of that scene and get right into it immediately and go with it. For that I need to prepare my head and give it some place to go when that happens.

Ummmm why?

Maybe orgies where your wife is getting banged from moment one just arn't your thing? I know it wouldn't be my thing either, and I can't see a need to change that part of me. You seem to be treating this as if it were a hang up, but we all have our limits and what turns us on. Rather than making yourself into something you are not, and trying to psych yourself into doing something you don't want to, maybe she should stop doing things that make you uncomfortable?

Maybe orgies where your wife is getting banged from moment one just arn't your thing? I know it wouldn't be my thing either, and I can't see a need to change that part of me.

Maybe that is my limit, I don't know. My wife says I have a slut in me that I need to set free. Just trying to keep up...

Well I like those. Maybe too much, as I just can't quite process seeing it happen to her and me also doing things with strangers without her, both at the same time. I don't like everything happening so fast and her getting pulled away from me.

 

Maybe that is my limit, I don't know. My wife says I have a slut in me that I need to set free. Just trying to keep up...

Maybe start together in the group and let things drift apart from there?

I'm no orgy specialist, I've only been in one once and eveyone had been hanging out and talking for quite a while prior so it wasn't a big deal in the 'stranger' aspect by that point. I just dont' see anything wrong with you wanting to take things slower, if anything it shows you care about your wife more than your own pleasure in this, which is a good thing. I'd be worried if I got to the point where my wife could be used as a multiple partner fuck toy and me not caring about who she was with, and only focusing on the woman in front of me.

Maybe I'm too "conservative" a swinger, but from what I see its not that something is wrong with your head as much as something is right with your head.

I'd be worried if I got to the point where my wife could be used as a multiple partner fuck toy and me not caring about who she was with, and only focusing on the woman in front of me.

The last time a few aggressive guys ganged up on her and I watched at first, then she and I took a break together and got it on, but the cycle just repeats. As soon as I pull out of her there's somebody right behind me waiting to jump on her. I can either stay and be with her or I can leave her and find a girl to jump on myself, of which there are plenty who want me. I never really have the option of her and I going after a girl together. It's either me going off on my own or else it's me doing nothing but watching.

That's kind of how I see it too, but my wife is so popular that guys want her to be 'in use' the whole time, and if I'm going to have any fun then I'm going to have to just leave her to entertain them and go and find my own fun. I really do wish it didn't have to be that way but that's just how it goes.

 

The last time a few aggressive guys ganged up on her and I watched at first, then she and I took a break together and got it on, but the cycle just repeats. As soon as I pull out of her there's somebody right behind me waiting to jump on her. I can either stay and be with her or I can leave her and find a girl to jump on myself, of which there are plenty who want me. I never really have the option of her and I going after a girl together. It's either me going off on my own or else it's me doing nothing but watching.

If you were a new couple I'd be saying things right now like 'no means no' and the like, but you arn't so I'm a bit confused.

If 'agressive' males were 'ganging' up on my wife I have a feeling they would be meeting my fist if they didn't back off right away. It seems like you are being too passive and accepting of the situation.

What really has me worried is you don't mention how your wife feels about all this (unless I missed it). Obviously she must be an attractive woman and maybe she likes the attention she gets but how you feel on this should come first. She should be telling the guys 'not tonight' while you two can have your own fun. You are NOT obligated to let every Tom, Dick, and Harry have access to your wife just because they want to be next in line.

It sounds like you want what most of us want in swinging and thats a 'together' type of experiance, and you are not getting it. You shouldn't be expected to change how you feel to accomidate other men.

If 'agressive' males were 'ganging' up on my wife I have a feeling they would be meeting my fist if they didn't back off right away. It seems like you are being too passive and accepting of the situation.

My wife knows that I wasn't comfortable just jumping right in and she did a great job of sticking with me and escaping with me for breaks to the balcony when I got overloaded. We have talked afterward too and she knows that I wish that it had either gone more slowly or that I could have gone more quickly. I want to talk to her about it again to maybe have some plan for how we could get into scenes like that in the future so that we're both having fun, but I'm still just not really sure what to tell her. I really think that most of it is in my head.

As obvious as it sounds in theory, the we're-in-this-as-a-couple philosophy doesn't seem to be practical in bigger group situations. The reality of it is that if I stick with whatever is going on with her then we're together as a couple, but I'm just watching whatever somebody is doing with her. If I do anything with another girl myself then my wife becomes unattended and therefore gets picked up and nailed. In seven years I have never been able to do something fun with somebody other than my wife without that resulting in somebody scooping her up and fucking her as soon as I look away. I sure would love to but even though we hang out with the nicest of people, there are just too many sharks in the water at these group things for her and I to operate as a couple, unless I just follow her and give up on doing anything myself. I've done plenty of that so now I'm going to learn to do it a different way.

The last time it happened I was confused as it went down, because the two new guys that night were both really shy and gentle guys at a big group dinner right before, but then as soon as the action started they just jumped right up and they were right there "Hello!" in front of her. She jumped into it wholeheartedly which I'm not really complaining about. Not opposed to anything she/they did, I just didn't really see it coming. I don't have the option of going so fast myself so I feel handicapped.

Hehe I didn't think you had a problem with her actions or I'd have given you the standard 'maybe you shouldn't be swinging' piece

My wife knows that I wasn't comfortable just jumping right in and she did a great job of sticking with me and escaping with me for breaks to the balcony when I got overloaded. We have talked afterward too and she knows that I wish that it had either gone more slowly or that I could have gone more quickly.

Good to hear.

I want to talk to her about it again to maybe have some plan for how we could get into scenes like that in the future so that we're both having fun, but I'm still just not really sure what to tell her. I really think that most of it is in my head.

Well sex IS 100% in your head. There is nothing wrong with it being in your head. You could just tell her that you are not comfortable in that situation and don't want to do it again. It sounds like finding playmates isn't an issue for you.

As obvious as it sounds in theory, the we're-in-this-as-a-couple philosophy doesn't seem to be practical in bigger group situations. The reality of it is that if I stick with whatever is going on with her then we're together as a couple, but I'm just watching whatever somebody is doing with her. If I do anything with another girl myself then my wife becomes unattended and therefore gets picked up and nailed. In seven years I have never been able to do something fun with somebody other than my wife without that resulting in somebody scooping her up and fucking her as soon as I look away. I sure would love to but even though we hang out with the nicest of people, there are just too many sharks in the water at these group things for her and I to operate as a couple, unless I just follow her and give up on doing anything myself. I've done plenty of that so now I'm going to learn to do it a different way.

Well this is where she would need to be assertive for you, and maybe piss a few sharks off by saying no. I'm still getting a bad 'vibe' here where you are both not quite on the same page. Yes I'll agree that when in a group situation the couples thing gets thrown out a bit, but perhaps you should not do the group thing or do it a lot less often and do more 2-2 or small group activities. Its a lot easier dealing with a handful of couples than a group full of unknowns.

Obviously if you can change the way you think about these things, than maybe everything will be fine, but if you can't my advice would be to not do those things anymore. You know the old joke

Patient: 'Doctor it always hurts when I do this!'

Doctor: 'Well don't do that.'

I doubt there is more I can add here, but good luck, I can understand your predicament and I feel for you here.

I doubt there is more I can add here, but good luck, I can understand your predicament and I feel for you here.

I think I'm going to ask my wife to indulge me by just watching me with somebody else some time, not doing anything herself but either watching or participating with me and the girl. She has never done that because she's so popular. I think that it might be easier for me to relax initially if I can get over the paranoid feeling (well-founded historically) that as soon as I look away from her somebody is going to grab her and fuck her.

Thanks so much for humoring me by listening to all of this whining. I really appreciate it. It helps to bring perspective to post here. My conclusion after all of this is:

 

I think I'm going to ask my wife to indulge me by just watching me with somebody else some time, not doing anything herself but either watching or participating with me and the girl. She has never done that because she's so popular. I think that it might be easier for me to relax initially if I can get over the paranoid feeling (well-founded historically) that as soon as I look away from her somebody is going to grab her and fuck her.

Sounds like a good plan, just make sure she knows it and goes with it 100% before the fun starts