Threesome troubles and questions

Hey everyone, I'm new and glad I was able to find a board like this.

 

I don't know if I would necessarily call myself a Swinger, but that seems to be the most appropriate term. Anyway, I guess I am interested in feedback from those who are familiar with this lifestyle, any thoughts on the whole matter will be greatly appreciated. My whole situation is pretty messy, and I am so lost!! I hope this is not too confusing.

 

I've been with my boyfriend now for almost two years. I love him, he is an amazing man. In the beginning of our relationship I felt myself kind of attracted to his best friend/roommate. Though I swore to myself nothing was going to come of it. But I would have all kinds of fantasies about threesomes with my boyfriend and his friend. When I asked people their thoughts on this "hypothetical" situation, everyone basically laughed and said there was no way something like that would ever become a reality.

 

Long story short, four months into our relationship my boyfriend casually questioned me as to how I felt about threesomes. I admitted a MMF threesome was a fantasy of mine. And then he actually suggested we have one with his friend! I could not believe it! At the time I was too freaked out, and so nothing actually happened.

 

Months passed, and I couldn't stop thinking about it. My attraction to his friend only grew. Then last January, while the three of us were hanging out and partying, my boyfriend brought the idea up to me again, and at that point I was definitely ready. So I initiated it, and his friend was only too happy to go along. We had 3 threesomes in total. The sex really was as great as I thought it would be.

 

A lot of time has gone by since our last threesome. But I think about having another one every single day. It is tough because every night it is the three of us hanging out together. My boyfriend and I plan to someday move into our own place, but right now the three of us kind of live together.

 

I feel really guilty, because whereas this seems to be just mere sexual thrills for my boyfriend, for me it has to do with having feelings for his friend. I am not in love with him, and in fact I could not picture myself actually dating someone like him. Yet I am saddled with this unrelenting sexual obsession. I enjoy sex with my boyfriend, but every night that passes without getting a chance with his friend feels somehow like a letdown.

 

I must confess that even though even though we haven't had a threesome in awhile, I still take every opportunity to make-out with his friend. After my boyfriend and I retire to bed I'll sneak back downstairs for a few minutes to be with his friend. The thing is that I always tell my boyfriend when I do this. And he never forbids me.

 

My boyfriend had admitted to wanting to have sex with a man...namely, his friend. When he brings up having another threesome, the main purpose this time is for he and his friend to fool around. (I think that his friend is also bi-curious...he has in the past talked about being attracted to men). So then I wonder if maybe my boyfriend is using me as a way to get closer to his friend (just like I did?) What would it be like if the two of them had sex? Should I encourage it?

 

My boyfriend talks about wanting to Swing, and having a MFF threesome. I tell him that I like the idea of that too, but the truth is I don't know if I do. The only reason I agreed to a threesome was so I could have sex with his friend. Kind of cheating in plain sight, huh? Why can't my boyfriend see that? Why does he let me get away with making out with his friend every once in awhile?

 

I feel guilty, but then I think that the idea of me being a slut turns my boyfriend on. There have been times during sex when he wanted me to describe to him things I did alone with his friend, and it turned him on. Sometimes when I go downstairs to use the bathroom and he knows his friend is down in the living room he'll say stuff to me like "You should flash him when you walk by" or "You should just go down naked." There have actually been times when we've been hanging out and my boyfriend pulled my skirt up to show his friend my new underwear. Like, who does that?

 

The thing is that even though I make loose promises, I would never in a million years have a MFF threesome. I know it is a HUGE double standard on my part, but I would be way too jealous. So I try to make it up to my boyfriend by watching porn with him. Usually it would bother me knowing a boyfriend of mine was looking at other naked women...but then I know I'm not exactly in a position to be so judgmental!

 

What I would ideally want is for us to just have an exclusive three-way relationship. But I know it is just a matter of time before his friend gets a girlfriend of his own. It's unreasonable, I know, but I feel like my boyfriend's friend is a part of our relationship. I don't want to lose him. What is all this? And then I feel guilty whenever I don't have any contact with his friend, like I'm somehow betraying his friend by not being intimate with him. I just cannot read what my boyfriend wants. His mixed messages drive me nuts. I'm afraid to initiate another threesome on my own, even thought my boyfriend tries pretty frequently. But I just don't like the way he goes about it, wanting me to just bust out and start stripping right in the living room.

 

I guess some of my questions are:

 

1) Is it okay or totally inexcusable for me to fool around with his friend when my boyfriend isn't around (even though I tell him every time I do it). If he never outright forbids me to do it, does that mean he doesn't mind? Sometimes when I go downstairs to get something he'll say "Hurry back" which I take to mean "No fooling around." And then there are the other times when he'll suggest I flash his friend or go down naked. What should I think?

 

2) Is it very likely that my boyfriend is bi and has wanted to be intimate with his friend for some time? What exactly does it mean that he gets turned on by me sleeping with/flashing his friend? Does it have to do more with me or his friend?

 

3) Is this at all normal?

 

Okay, anyone ever been in an even remotely similar situation? Any thoughts or advice? I'm sorry if I sound totally dumb...I never thought I'd find myself in a situation like this!

I was in a similar situation when I was married to my first husband (call him S). After our daughter was born I stayed home while he worked. When she was 4 months old a friend of his (call him T) was discharged from the army and my ex invited him to stay with us until he got a job and a place of his own. Now T wasn't someone I would normally be attracted to, too tall, too skinny, real short crew cut, but he was very funny and could always make me laugh.

 

After his first week with us he and I became close. S was ignoring me because I still had not lost my baby fat and was always putting me down for something. T would actually stand up for me and that made him even more attractive. One night the three of us were watching TV and T was wearing a silly T-shirt that said "Kiss me I'm Irish" on it. S made a joke about then said go ahead. I was shocked but he insisted because T hadn't been kissed in a long time. So I did.

 

The next morning T was standing in our bedroom when I came out of the shower. Other than the towel around my hair I was naked. Without a word we melted into the bed and had sex. It had been over a year for him and it only lasted about 30 seconds but still. We never did anything after that but S kept up the sexual innuendo about us for the next two weeks until T moved out.

 

1) Is it okay or totally inexcusable for me to fool around with his friend when my boyfriend isn't around (even though I tell him every time I do it). If he never outright forbids me to do it, does that mean he doesn't mind? Sometimes when I go downstairs to get something he'll say "Hurry back" which I take to mean "No fooling around." And then there are the other times when he'll suggest I flash his friend or go down naked. What should I think?

 

Have you discussed it? If your bf knows about you fooling around and is asking for details I would assume that he is ok with it. The times he suggest you flash or go naked are probably times he is horny and wanting to swing.

 

2) Is it very likely that my boyfriend is bi and has wanted to be intimate with his friend for some time? What exactly does it mean that he gets turned on by me sleeping with/flashing his friend? Does it have to do more with me or his friend?

 

MrXxotic gets turned on when I have sex with or flash other men. I think a lot of the men on this board will say the same thing. Your partner being pleasured is a large part of what swinging is all about. This is one reason we usually only swing with single men. As for your bf and his friend being bi that is something I can't even begin to help you with. I love watching two men together and being between two bi guys but it ain't for everyone.

 

3) Is this at all normal?

 

If you read the boards with an open mind you will quickly see that there is not a "normal" way to swing.

What you're seeking sounds more like Polymory. Nothing at all wrong with it either. Not exactly swinging though.

 

You might do some research on it and even discuss it with your boyfriend and even the other friend. What have you got to lose by being honest and open with them both and getting them to be open and honest with you about what they're seeking.

 

Now, it may not last forever but neither do marriages sometimes, but it might be a very enjoyable and rewarding relationship for all three of you.

 

Good luck.

Insofar as questions number 1 and 2 are concerned, those questions can really only be answered by you and your boyfriend, so communication is key there, as it is with any matter to do with swinging.

 

Question number 3 can be answered simply: "normal" doesn't mean "typical" ... so what is normal for you, might not be normal for someone else. Doesn't mean what you feel is wrong, or that someone with differing opinions or viewpoints is wrong ... it's just your preferences vs. someone else's. I believe that "normal" is a loose term, able to be interpreted by a variety of different people in a variety of different ways. My opinion is that as long as it isn't illegal and someone isn't hurt by it, anything can be "normal".

 

You just need to sit down with your boyfriend and TALK to him ... discuss what your fantasies are, discuss his, decide where you each want to go with them, discuss boundaries and limitations if you do decide to pursue swinging or polyamory (which, as the previous poster stated, sounds like what you are seeking). It seems like you have a great deal of murky waters in your relationship that could be cleared up by simply asking questions of your boyfriend and deciding where you, yourself, want to go in the relationship with him, and in an extended relationship with your roommate.

 

Finally, I will say that for US, we would not swing at all if either of us had any jealousy issues. You will find from reading this board that the LAST thing extended partners want to deal with is drama in your relationship. And it is not only our extended partners that I am concerned with; it is us and our relationship as well. I simply would not feel right, within my own set of values and morals if I wasn't fair to my husband in allowing him the same freedoms that he allows me. Depending on the level of intensity of your relationship with your boyfriend, whether it is a passing fling or a relationship with the potential to move into long-term or marriage, you have to decide what it is you are seeking from the possibility of an extended relationship with this other guy. Will swinging/polyamory strengthen and enhance the relationship with your boyfriend? Is strength and enhancement to your primary relationship what you are seeking?

 

I think you also need to ask yourself if you are easily attached emotionally to anyone you have sex with. In reading your post, it sounds like that might be the case for you. Of course, it might not be. It's not really for me to say, it's just my perception.

 

For the majority of swingers, it is the thrill of casual sex with others with no emotional strings attached that is the attraction. The freedom to be with others sexually, trying out a variety of different methods and techniques, being continually awakened by new partners while still maintaining a strong, solid primary relationship with respect, trust and love as the foundation is our reason for being in the lifestyle. Any friendships we make along the way are simply "bonuses" ... meaning, we do not seek to become close friends with anyone. Close friendships require a certain amount of emotional involvement, which could become dangerous if your primary relationship isn't strong, a concern if extended emotional attachments are not what you seek.

 

So, TALK ... openly, honestly, and deeply. Spend some time on these boards, share them with your boyfriend. There are so many matters of discussion here that I would highly doubt that many things you might be interested in have not been discussed. And those that aren't, well, you simply do as you have done and ask. There are MANY great people here who have a grip on the lifestyle and their relationships with their spouse/s.o. as well as their swing partners. There are also newbies who can share with you their insight on breaking into the lifestyle.

 

As one of the regular posters on this board often says (and I am paraphrasing), when sex is no longer the main focus of your primary relationship and you develop the freedom to be sexually expressive with others outside your relationship, you quickly discover other elements of your primary relationship that are even more important than sex and find that it is those elements that define your relationship.

Hi and Welcome to the board!

 

I guess I have to admit that I am not, nor have been in this situation before, and I hope others will post that could give you first hand advice.

 

What it sounds to me like, and I have read your post twice now, is that you sorta have and desire to have a poly situation. I do not think that is abnormal for those in poly lifestyles, however I do think it is outside the norm for some swingers.

 

Maybe looking at polyamorous website, may give you more insight.

 

MY ultimate advice is to talk openly with your boyfriend, communicating all that you have with us. If it were me, it would be really important for me to know where he is coming from, (your perception of encouragement from him, the bi-curious side of him, etc) and it would be important for him to know that you really enjoyed the 3-somes and desire to have more of them with this roommate.

 

I think that once you and your boyfriend are on the same page it will make it easier for you to pursue the other roommate and your assumption of his bi-curious and sex play side.

 

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, but I think nothing can happen until there is communication.

Okay, long answers short...

 

1) Is it okay or totally inexcusable for me to fool around with his friend when my boyfriend isn't around (even though I tell him every time I do it).

Yea, probably. Cohabitating is a matter of convenience. A ring usually signifies a certain level of committment and exclusivity. Unless you have a ring or have discussed exclusivity specifically with your boyfriend, you can fuck pretty much whoever you want anytime you want. I just wouldn't do it in the house you're sharing with him. (I'm old fashioned)

 

And then there are the other times when he'll suggest I flash his friend or go down naked. What should I think?

You should think that he's either "Just Not That Into You" as a popular book title suggests, or that you're living with a fucking idiot. Probably a little of BOTH...

Is it very likely that my boyfriend is bi and has wanted to be intimate with his friend for some time?

Probably, although I'm sure he, like most guys, will deny it. I'm not passing judgement here, just making a logical deduction. If he wanted a child to join you in bed, I'd say he's probably a pedophile. If he wanted a donkey to join you, I'd think he's probably into beastiality. If he wanted to bring a corpse into your bed, I'd say he's probably a necrophiliac. As it now stands, all he wants is to bring another man into your bed. Ergo, he's probably just bisexual.

 

Thank your lucky stars, girl...things could be worse!

 

What exactly does it mean that he gets turned on by me sleeping with/flashing his friend?

It could mean a lot of things, but the shortest and most likely answer is that he's repressed his homosexual tendencies, and that having you, a woman, in bed with he and his friend validates their masculinity in what is fundamentally a MM encounter. As for the flashing, it follows that at some subliminal level, he wishes he got the same level of arousal from flashing another man that you do.

 

Does it have to do more with me or his friend?

I don't know. Tell him that you absolutely refuse to do any of this stuff with his friend ever again. The one of you that's still in the house 3 months from now is the one it "has more to do with."

 

Is this at all normal?

Let me preface my answer by saying that somebody recently sent me a picture of a hairy, middle-aged man in a red corset, on his knees, fucking the tailpipe of a pick-up truck. Is it "normal?" I suppose...for him at least. He was smiling, and I didn't see anybody holding a gun to his head. I guess the moral of the story is that anything you do, if you do it often enough and without being forced, becomes "normal"...to you at least.

 

That doesn't mean that whatever you're doing doesn't seem pretty fucked-up to the rest of the world.

 

Okay, anyone ever been in an even remotely similiar situation? Any thoughts or advice? I'm sorry if I sound totally dumb...I never thought I'd find myself in a situation like this!

That's OK Darlin'...I'm sure that's what the guy in the red corset was thinking the first time he saw his picture plastered all over the internet

Wow, thanks everyone for taking the time to respond!

 

If I am to be honest, the thing about the whole situation is that I don't really *want* any of this. I feel nothing but abject shame that I consummated my feelings for his friend, even if I was given permission. I feel even more shame that I went ahead and had sex with his friend alone, which I knew angered my boyfriend. Why he has not killed me in my sleep yet is really beyond me...

 

I'm sorry that this whole Pandora's Box was opened. As I was reading through the boards, which have been very enlightening, I saw a post saying that one reason a guy might suggest a MMF threesome is to get his girlfriend to open up to a MFF one, which seems to be the case for me. Although he isn't all that persistent, he has said things like I "owe" him a MFF now. That just really makes me angry. It seems like he offered up his best friend to me, like it was a favor, so that I would give him access to another girl. Frankly, I'm appalled. Although he says he "Wouldn't do anything, just watch..." It is plainly obvious that's only lip service.

 

But I do think that he also gets pleasure out of the MMF, especially since admitting he wants to try sex with a man. Basically, I think I'm just going to stop having any kind of threesomes whatsoever. It may cost me my relationship, but there is something that makes me uneasy thinking that his friend may be a part of our lives forever. It's not that I'm against homosexuality, but knowing my boyfriend probably has sexual feelings for his best friend doesn't sit well with me. I think I'd prefer someone who lusts after only me. Thanks again for your insight, and I am always open to hearing more.

I am glad you have figured it out what you need to do for your happiness. Overall, this is just a boyfriend, and your happiness and weel-being should be your priority.

 

Swinging is not for everyone and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

Good luck to you!

My comment on this is that you have so many hidden agenda's you need a score card to keep them straight... You seem too young (emotionally) to know what you want... or understand were you want to go.

 

Take the time to figure it out and don't blame others for what you are willing to do. If you have self respect and know yourself... then you can say no to what you don't like.

 

After all, your boyfriend is asking you about all this ...up front. He seems to be communicating honestly... YOU ARE NOT. You suspect him of alternate motives... that comes from what you have done ( all of your alternative motives). You’re transposing it onto him... and the guilt...self imposed because you know it.

 

Your attitude about your boyfriend ( considering you want to do his friend but would be jealous if he did anyone) tell me you have more of a cheaters mentality going on there...especially the selfish attitude and jealous comment.

 

Sex and love are two really different things.

 

Someone with a more mature emotional profile might consider the set-up you have as ideal...someone with a real grip on who they are as a woman and a sexual being. Someone else with a different perspective and morality would see you as being used. You seem to see you as woman without a will but with allot of wants.

 

You have to figure out exactly what you really do want…what you are worth ( to yourself) and what you are willing and not willing to do. That more than any situation you are in will determine how happy you can be..( as it travels with you from situation to situation and place to place) No one can do that one for you…But you.

 

Good luck hon.

Thank You BodyScape02,

 

I have been gun shy for awhile and you said it well.

 

However, she has admitted that she isn't a swinger but was hoping for our take on things. We gave her the swingers take and now it's up to her as to how she should treat this issue. If she wants to be a cheater...then more power to her.

 

She just won't get much action at a swingers party...if she tells the truth. HELP

 

Of course...truth be told...there are probably a lot of people who attend swingers functions under the guise of being a swinger when they may just be looking for this very kind of gal...if she were a swinger. Sounds like she just wants to hold onto the two guys she has presently and is either afraid to tell her BF that she likes his BF better than him or is truly interested in a poly relationship.

 

Time will tell...unbeknownest to us. We'll probably read about it in the papers.

I'm sorry that this whole Pandora's Box was opened. As I was reading through the boards, which have been very enlightening, I saw a post saying that one reason a guy might suggest a MMF threesome is to get his girlfriend to open up to a MFF one, which seems to be the case for me. Although he isn't all that persistent, he has said things like I "owe" him a MFF now. That just really makes me angry. It seems like he offered up his best friend to me, like it was a favor, so that I would give him access to another girl. Frankly, I'm appalled. Although he says he "Wouldn't do anything, just watch..." It is plainly obvious that's only lip service.

Let me get this right...It's ok for you to fulfill your MFM fantasy, while also having one-on-one sex with your roommate in secret....But you berate your boyfriend for wanting to have just one part of what you already are experiencing, the part that includes you, to boot? Yikes, that type of double standard is a prescription for disaster in any relationship, whether or not you participate in swinging.

 

relationship, but there is something that makes me uneasy thinking that his friend may be a part of our lives forever. It's not that I'm against homosexuality, but knowing my boyfriend probably has sexual feelings for his best friend doesn't sit well with me. I think I'd prefer someone who lusts after only me. Thanks again for your insight, and I am always open to hearing more.

Again, double standards. You profess your lust and feelings for your roommate, yet don't want your boyfriend to have that same freedom he affords you. I think you need to take a break from relationships in general and really think about what you want and value in your life, along with what you can offer/allow in return. Open communication with your partner is a must, and this seems to be lacking in your current relationship(s).

Some questions: You said you find yourself thinking about sex with your bf's friend a lot. Is there the possibility that he's better in bed than your bf? I don't think you really get into that in your posts. Also, the roommate seems a rather shadowy character -- what are his thoughts on this arrangement? Does he have unexpressed feelings for you? Also, any clue as to the roommates thoughts on m2m bi activity?

 

Ms P and I went through a period of fantasizing about such a menage a trois, and even had a candidate lined up (!) but he wasn't exactly on the same page, and we realized a couple of things: how difficult it would be to find a guy who met all of our criteria (including being bi, hung huge, cute, good in bed, smart, talented, accomplished, professional in an alternative way, all of which our friend was) and just happened to be interested in a live-in threeway with a hot bi couple. We also realized how difficult it would be to maintain such an arrangement, as your experience shows.

 

Clearly, this is not something to try at home, kids, unless you're really, really advanced in communication and shared outlook.

Oh, believe me I'll be the first to admit that I'm not emotionally mature enough to handle this, by far. And I am considerably young (22). But honestly...no matter how old I was I don't think I could ever emotionally handle it, or see how anyone could.

 

And yes, I also fully realize that I have a LOT of double standards. The part about being a cheater...well, I am not proud of it, but I have cheated on every boyfriend I've ever had. This time I just had permission.

 

I think my problem really is just being way too hedonistic and chasing after every silly little impulse, instead of stopping to consider what kind of consequences my actions might have. I am trying to work on choosing the higher road.

 

Last night, at my urging, we had another threesome. And this time I felt everything I know I should have felt all along - the disgust, the horror, the sadness of it all. I know it will be the last time. And my relationship with my boyfriend may not last either, as our values truly are so different.

 

Someone said that love and sex are two different things, but in my case I have to respectfully disagree. I've tried for a long time to be a very free-spirited and loose girl, but every guy I have ever slept with I've developed a strong attachment to, even the ones I never dreamed possible. Giving your body to another person just seems like such a private, intimate act that is associated with love. I guess I'm definitely not cut out to be a swinger, huh?

 

But you've all been very truthful, calling a spade a spade, and it's all correct. I'm glad I had this epiphany. I need to do a lot of work on myself. Take care, and thanks again!

You exposed a bix mixture of things, and the situation made you shake them togheter turning into a drink you seem to dislike but, even so, it still thrills you.

 

First of all, most swinging couples are at first couples, who engage in activities by setting rules beforehand with the purpose of protecting the original relationship. This implies the couple is somehow already settled, and it seems you have a BF and you're (both?) unsure how long you want this relation to last, so I wouldn't say you both are swinging, moreover i'd say the three of you are just exploring your own lands.

 

What called my attention the most is what sounds like a "double standard", whether in fact it doesn't seem you already developed a "single standard" you'd feel confortable with: you feel yoursef engaging in realtionships, then you find yourself cheating and enjoying it, you didn't seem to have a defined limit between love and sex (which is ok for me), so when you supposedly "cheat" you're being faithfull with your own feelings, but anyway you feel guitly about it.

 

It seems to me you're having a hard time when faced to a definition for your own standards, that you'd like to fit with the ones you already learn and see in your social context, seldom strict, and those able to let you be as hedonistic as you want to be.

 

The fact is, there are no white or black, nor behavior rules engraved in stone. You have to define your own standards, and then relate with people able to accept these standards. It is YOUR LIFE, and you deserve to develop it your own way and, at last, feel your wishes and expectations fullfilled. You won't able to live to fulfill other people's expectations and under standards you don't feel confortable with.

 

You seem to worry too much about "normality". Normality is a blurry pseudo-statistical concept that evolve, change with time, and have different meanings depending on the culture and your social context. In the swingers "subculture" there are behaviors that are normal for us that wouldn't be normal under our social standards nor other's subcultures. The BDSM lyfestilers take for normal things an behaviors that aren't normal for swingers, and even so, this is a theoretical example: there can be swingers who enjoy BDSM or vicecersa, who have yet another concept for normality. Even, there are cuckolding lyfestilers, couples where the guy is being cheated on by their wyfes and that's the standard they choose for their lives (something that may go against what swingers calls "normality").

 

You seem to be finding out the social context where you grew is imposing a normality concept, and then, standards that are hard to follow for you, while in the other hand you cannot choose a private standard able to fit what you already know.

 

The world is big, HUGE, there are a lot of people around there that have other standards and who were more than able to accept a new standard you may define for yourself enven when not fitting your actual social context expectations. So the bottom line is:

 

You're FREE to make an standard for yourself, and you wont be ALONE nor isolated from the society.

 

Being hedonistic is fine. Wanting to share your sexuality with more than a guy is ok, not wanting to do the same with other females is also ok. If you read the board, you'll see there are plenty of guys who just want to share their GF or wifes just with another males and not with females. That is not a double standard, it just a matter of taste, and a taste for which there are a lot of matching people.

 

You're young and you're just exploring and learning, and for sure that will lead to a definition for your sexuality and your standards. It's just a proccess, where the goal of ahieving that definition is, at last, unreacheable, because you'll find yourself adjusting the definitions as you get more experiences.

 

So, i'd say you'd have to calm down, take it easy, look at this expecience as a part of the proccess, enjoy the proccess, and if you feel your tastes and standards doesn't fit your social context, move on and look for a context where they can fit. And this doesn't mean to leave the people you actually love and care of behind, insthead, to find out another people being able to accept your tastes and standards, to share, develop and fulfill these aspects of your life TOO, along the aspects fulfilled by your actual context.

 

We often use the word "vanilla" to define the people who doesn't share our lyfestile related tastes, or even for who wouldn't even understand it. Being swingers doesn't mean we need to shut a door behind us and stop relating with vanilla people. In fact, they're part of our life, we have vanilla relatives and friends we still love and who actually fullfill many other aspects of our lifes. Some of us hide our lifestyle from our vanilla closest people, other are open about it... everyone manages the best he or she can about this, but at last, CAN manage it and enjoy both the lifestyle and the original vanilla social context. This choice, nor any standard or taste choice, shouldn't have to lead you to an exclusive path where you'd have to loose what you already got from your life.

 

So, don't be affraid, and give yourself and you wishes more credit.

You hit the nail on the head when you said you are not emotionaly ready for swinging, or a serious relationship, not a bad thing...you are YOUNG, enjoy your youth wherever it takes you and don't feel bad about the things you have done, you are NOT married. Look at them as learning experiences and see the good in them, someday you will look back and remember those times with a smile on your face. Don't be so hard on yourself, you're still a kid, enjoy!

Dear SableOnBlond,

 

(Let me stipulate that I failed to read fully every posting on this subject and am only replying quickly on my impressions.)

 

For starters, 22 isn't that "young", but it is. Your chronological age shouldn't be a consideration. What should be is how you "feel" about everything you've experienced.

 

You mentioned that you might not be a "swinger", but from one of your statements, it seems that you have wanted to be all along. You stated that you've cheated on every boyfriend you've had (which isn't "swinging", by the way)! The only one you haven't cheated on is your current one, but you feel you "cheated" on him because you didn't do the act in front of him or with his prior permission (though he basically gave you carte blanche on that). Don't get hung up on labels. They'll be your downfall.

 

If you'd like a little advice from someone quite older, you're working too hard.

 

Basically, you sound like a woman who enjoys sex and sexual variety. You enjoy the freedom of being able to choose sex partners separate from people you have an emotional attachment to. But you also sound like you feel you should have some guilt because you feel that way.

 

Though no one on this board can truly give you advice since they don't have a first person knowledge of what is going on, in my humble opinion it seems you have actually a good relationship right now. Your boyfriend is someone you have emotional and sexual interest in. Your boyfriend's friend is only a sex partner to you since you can't imagine even "dating" someone like him, but he must have a great body or really know how to use it. It seems that you want to please yourself and are willing to please your boyfriend, to a degree. Him might wanting to "try" a bisexual situation might only be that. (Was it Freud who said something similar to "Sometimes a banana is only a banana" or whatever?) He might want to try it and determine that it isn't really for him. Or he might only want to "try" it in his mental fantasies without really putting it to a reality test. Whatever.

 

A big question I'd have for you is why do you think you should deny yourself what you enjoy (your boyfriend's friend or the other men you've had sex with when you were "cheating" on your other boyfriends)? As long as everyone understand who you go home to at the end of the day and you don't end up being Typhoid Mary, why can't you keep enjoying various sexual partners? You seem to be on the brink of making a major change to your basic philosophy on the subject which you might not be able to maintain long term, based on your previous track record. Wouldn't it be better to just have a very deep conversation with your boyfriend (and maybe his friend) laying everything on the table so you all can work on how to deal with this? It seems both you and he need to be more frank about where you feel this is going.

 

Your statement:

"Last night, at my urging, we had another threesome. And this time I felt everything I know I should have felt all along - the disgust, the horror, the sadness of it all. I know it will be the last time. And my relationship with my boyfriend may not last either, as our values truly are so different."

 

"Should have felt"??? Why do you feel that?

 

This is in direct conflict with what you originally stated:

"Months passed, and I couldn't stop thinking about it. My attraction to his friend only grew. Then last January, while the three of us were hanging out and partying, my boyfriend brought the idea up to me again, and at that point I was definetly ready. So I initiated it, and his friend was only too happy to go along. We had 3 threesomes in total. The sex really was as great as I thought it would be."

 

"The sex really was as great as I thought it would be." Unless your emotional feels toward your boyfriend's friend has changed to taint your appreciation of the physical aspects of the sex act, the sex should be fairly the same unless someone's "performance" was off that day.

 

It sounds very much like you initiated the threesome the last time to prove some "self fullfilling prophesy" that "I shouldn't be enjoying this". Was it that this time, unlike the first time which might have been before you heard your boyfriend might be interested in having same sex with his friend, you started envisioning the two men engaged with each other? Why was this time "disgusting" and the first time "great"?

 

Your statement:

"The thing is that even though I make loose promises, I would never in a million years have a MFF threesome. I know it is a HUGE double standard on my part, but I would be way too jealous. So I try to make it up to my boyfriend by watching porn with him. Usually it would bother me knowing a boyfriend of mine was looking at other naked women...but then I know I'm not exactly in a position to be so judgemental!"

 

This brings up another point. One thing you definitely SHOULD do is stop making "loose promises" or, as the song says, "Don't make promises you can't keep." That goes for so many things. Talk frankly about your feelings rather than leading anyone on. In your whole postings, that probably is the biggest problem in this whole "mess". (That's not in any way to say that you're doing anything "wrong", by the way.)

 

Another concern I feel when reading your messages is that you might be heading on a reoccurring situation of leaving probably very viable relationships (like your current boyfriend) because you feel someway that "you" might not be "good enough" or "not good enough" for them. (Again, I can't really say because everything here has been presented very one sided and we don't hear anything about what your boyfriend has to say.) There are relationships that shouldn't have happened in the first place and then there are many which should have taken a step back and worked on their problems rather than throwing their hands up and splitting. I'm not so sure as to which you're in right now.

 

My $0.002 is to have a very long talk with your boyfriend about all your feelings. You might find him very receptive to go over them. You also seem to need to do some self analysis to determine whether you really want to leave that "free spirited" woman behind and become something else. Personally, I wish there were many more free spirited women in the world so I wouldn't talk you out of being one. You might also want think about where "sex" really fits in your life. Do you enjoy it as a recreational event like watching a tennis match or do you wish to only enjoy it with someone you have an emotional tie to? There is a subculture known as "polyamory" where you can be accepted for having multiple emotional/sexual partners. You might want to consider that philosophy.

 

Finally, relationships shouldn't be "built" upon "sex". If you're thinking of splitting with your current boyfriend because of many other differences of "values", than it might indeed be a wise choice, but think very carefully about whether you really want to leave that "amazing man" over differences in "sex".

 

Best of luck to you. It looks like you have quite a bit of work ahead of you.

Wow...you guys are really helping me out here.

 

 

>

 

Oh I know, I was not likening cheating to swinging. Basically what I meant was that I've always wanted to have a stable boyfriend and also have the freedom to sleep with whoever I wanted on the side. So I guess that is right, I have always wanted to be a swinger. When I was younger however, I had no idea such a thing even existed! I guess I was thinking along the lines of having an open relationship, which is what I did have with my last boyfriend, before moving on to my current one. The only thing I need to open up to is the fact that if I am going to have other partners, then I need to grant my boyfriend the same freedom.

 

 

 

I do very much fight an internal battle. While I can't help being attracted to many different guys, there is a part of me that thinks sex outside of your relationship is wrong, or unnatural. I know what is unnatural is to expect a person to be attracted to only their SO for the rest of their lives. That's unrealistic. There is a huge gap between what I think and what I feel. I *think* threesomes or swinging in general is wrong. There is a part of me that is very traditional. But at the same time I very much enjoy non-traditional sex, crave variety, and while I can see myself emotionally attached to one person for a long time, I can't see going forever with only one sexual partner. So I guess I have a lot to work out. Does it seem like it would be beneficial for me to continue to pursue a "swinging" lifestyle or not?

Sable,

 

From what you wrote I would say: You are looking for love through sex... you need someone to want you or a conquest to make you feel worthy or desired or sexual.

 

If that is so, I would say:

 

“Please get your crap together and quit screwing anyone... because ultimately you are screwing yourself. Learn to love yourself first and build something of value in your life you can be proud of. Acquire some habits and actions of intrinsic value to your very self centered and very spontaneously hedonistic soul, (say like honestly, self –respect, a job you van be proud of, financial success…whatever makes you feel you have true worth…other than sex)"

 

Why? Because , it is impossible for me to respect you... you have no respect for yourself or anyone else. How can I value you as a person, when you put such a low value on yourself?

 

Or of course you can just acknowledge your shortcomings as you have been, and go on acting the same way under the excuse of “I just can't help it that is the way I am". If you are going to do that... quit whining and accept your role as a doormat.

 

(I am talking to you as I do and did my girlfriends who were in the same position) tough love sounds ugly...truth is often unpleasant. Change is even more painful, but so worth the time and courageous effort...to become a WOMAN who will attract good things and men, because that is what she is and it is the sexiest thing on earth. It is worth the effort.

I do very much fight an internal battle. While I can't help being attracted to many different guys, there is a part of me that thinks sex outside of your relationship is wrong, or unnatural. I know what is unnatural is to expect a person to be attracted to only their SO for the rest of their lives. That's unrealistic. There is a huge gap between what I think and what I feel. I *think* threesomes or swinging in general is wrong. There is a part of me that is very traditional. But at the same time I very much enjoy non-traditional sex, crave variety, and while I can see myself emotionally attached to one person for a long time, I can't see going forever with only one sexual partner. So I guess I have a lot to work out. Does it seem like it would be beneficial for me to continue to pursue a "swinging" lifestyle or not?

 

Sable,

 

I believe the later question is irrelevant for you right now, and even more, that it is poorly grounded... thinking of swinging as a "benefit" worth to pursuit, while you didn't reached to any stable point in your "internal battle" is pointless and moreover, THIS is unrealistic and disrespectfull.

 

As I said before, you put too much weight on other people expectations about your life, and this doesn't mean to have witnesses sitting in a chair watching what you do to give you an approval, insthead it means the traditional part of you that you admit to have, and that has to do with the "right" behavior rules you learn so forth.

 

And you're still thinking of this in terms of what is right and what is wrong, what you'd supposed to do and what you wish to be able to do, and all of this has to do with expectations from people surrounding you and your own expectations for yourself. Making a gross example for the issue as you're addressing it, your question can be read as: "Should I fuck everyone around that make me wet my panties and accept that I am just a cheap whore, or should I address my wetness taking cold showers and ensure mom, dad, aunt and granma will look at me as the good girl I know am?"

 

The problem is that you still cannot find a place where to match the concepts of "fucking everyone around" and "being a good girl" as not being opposed to each other. All the women in this board already found such a place, and it is a place anyone of us had to find out BEFORE even thinking of swinging.

 

And perhaps because of this, Cat here just told you that you should start respecting yourself, and this mean to respect your wishes, your desires, your own ways to live your life, your ideas, your feelings, and so forth, since it seems that you give way more credit to what I call "third ones expectations" than your own feelings, toughts and beliefs. And even more, when the questions you ask about "how things should be" for yourself could lead you to the "take a cold shower and be a good girl" answer that for sure won't fit with our lifestyle (if you reach this point, you'd be disrespectfull with all the women in this forum since then, necesarily, all of them would be "whores").

 

So, even when the question is valid for you, here you'll get answers biased toward the concepts leading to the respect we actually feel for ourselves and other swingers, something that may not help you at all. So, the question about the lifestyle in terms of benefits and on the grounds you're doing it, here, turns to be wrong.

 

Even so, I believe we understand your dilemma and how valid the questions you're asking to yourself are, because at some point we faced the same dilemma. As for me, I feel I cannot give you any advice about the "benefits" of being swinger because that would be being pushy with someone who didn't developed her own standards, and by doing so, I would be being disrespectfull with myself, with the orher board members, and with the lifestylers in general.

 

So, my advice isn't related to the "being swinger" question, but to the lack of standards you're showing and what I believe you could do to work around this issue (what I wrote in my previous post), that could help you find out if you'll feel more confortable in a bed or in a shower.

 

Again, you're young and you're in the middle of the proccess that will define your sexuality. Don't be so hard and enjoy the proccess itself, because no matter where it will lead you, it deserve to be enjoyed.

Have you ever considered that your BF is crazy about you and this situation you are in has him blinded to the fact that you want the roommate for more than just the occasional 3-way? He might very well be really shocked to learn that you want the other guy. He could respect and love you more than you know, but this situation you are in likely has everyone confused.

 

A few comments - I have done things like you mentioned your BF does (asking you to flash or showing off your panties to the r/m), once while we were partying and watching a porn movei with my M friend, I asked my gf to show him her tits, then suggested he stroke his cock for her after he mentioned he was getting a "raging hard-on."

 

She was embarrassed when I said it, naturally, but within about an hour the three of us were going at it. So, I don't blame him for pushing you towards sexual encounters with the r/m, unless you have openly objected to them. He probably thinks you are as into it as he is.

 

Good luck with your situation - it sounds very emotional, but also very wild.

Have you ever considered that your BF is crazy about you and this situation you are in has him blinded to the fact that you want the roomate for more than just the occassional 3-way? He might very well be really shocked to learn that you want the other guy.

 

That sounds about right to me, actually.

 

I've been trying to get my head screwed on tighter about the whole situation. I've stopped obsessing over it so much. We have not had a threesome in a long time, but it seems like my boyfriend is playing with me. It seems rather unfair.

 

Here is the thing, often times when we are having sex he will talk about having a threesome. Primarily what he talks about is HE and his friend having sex, and he seems to get so turned on by it. Practically the WHOLE time we are having sex he will talk about it, describe exactly what he wants to do with his friend, and say we will have the threesome the next night. So in turn *I* get all worked up about the idea, and the next night comes and I am all excited and ready but my boyfriend says nothing about it. So, somewhat hesitantly I bring it up...and my boyfriend gets mad at me! He says we're having fun just the two of us, why do I have to ruin it? Then he turns on me and asks why I keep expecting a MFM when I won't bring any girls to bed with us. Well maybe because HE keeps talking about it!

 

So it is obvious that he wants to have a one-on-one encounter with his friend. But I think when it comes to the reality of it he is likely too afraid to attempt it because he does not know how his friend will react. While I would like to have a threesome again I am at the point where I can take it or leave it. But when my boyfriend goes on about it, promises "we will have one tomorrow" and then gets mad at me the next day when I bring it up...it's getting really old.

Personally, I think you should, for now, drop the idea of a threesome, and tell your boyfriend that you don't want to verbally fantasize with him anymore about it.

 

It sounds to me like he is all for it, in the heat of the moment, but then when the arousal is gone in the light of day, he feels threatened by the actuality. I don't know if he is purposely toying with you, or if it is that he finds complexity in his own feelings from one time to another. Perhaps he may be also reading into you having the crush on the roommate and he feels threatened by what could happen if you continue to pursue threesomes with this guy. Guys, especially young guys, don't always know that women are inherently more apt to attach emotions to sex, but I think they sense it subconsciously. This might be happening with your guy.

 

For the time being, I think you two need to improve your communications and your relationship before continuing with any swing activity.

Hey everyone, I'm new and glad I was able to find a board like this.

 

I don't know if I would necessarily call myself a Swinger, but that seems to be the most appropriate term. Anyway, I guess I am interested in feedback from those who are familliar with this lifestyle, any thoughts on the whole matter will be greatly appreciated. My whole situation is pretty messy, and I am so lost!! I hope this is not too confusing.

 

I've been with my boyfriend now for almost two years. I love him, he is an amazing man. In the beginning of our relationship I felt myself kind of attracted to his best friend/roomate. Though I swore to myself nothing was going to come of it. But I would have all kinds of fantasies about threesomes with my boyfriend and his friend. When I asked people their thoughts on this "hypothetical" situation, everyone basically laughed and said there was no way something like that would ever become a reality.

 

Long story short, four months into our relationship my boyfriend casually questioned me as to how I felt about threesomes. I admitted a MMF threesome was a fantasy of mine. And then he actually suggested we have one with his friend! I could not believe it! At the time I was too freaked out, and so nothing actually happened.

 

Months passed, and I couldn't stop thinking about it. My attraction to his friend only grew. Then last January, while the three of us were hanging out and partying, my boyfriend brought the idea up to me again, and at that point I was definetly ready. So I initiated it, and his friend was only too happy to go along. We had 3 threesomes in total. The sex really was as great as I thought it would be.

 

A lot of time has gone by since our last threesome. But I think about having another one every single day. It is tough because every night it is the three of us hanging out together. My boyfriend and I plan to someday move into our own place, but right now the three of us kind of live together.

 

I feel really guilty, because whereas this seems to be just mere sexual thrills for my boyfriend, for me it has to do with having feelings for his friend. I am not in love with him, and infact I could not picture myself actually dating someone like him. Yet I am saddled with this unrelenting sexual obsession. I enjoy sex with my boyfriend, but every night that passes without getting a chance with his friend feels somehow like a letdown.

 

I must confess that even though even though we haven't had a threesome in awhile, I still take every opprotunity to make-out with his friend. After my boyfriend and I retire to bed I'll sneak back downstairs for a few minutes to be with his friend. The thing is that I always tell my boyfriend when I do this. And he never forbids me.

 

So what is wrong with asking him if it's OK is it goes beyond "just making out," and it's OK if he walks in and "catches" you?

 

My boyfriend had admitted to wanting to have sex with a man...namely, his friend. When he brings up having another threesome, the main purpose this time is for he and his friend to fool around. (I think that his friend is also bi-curious...he has in the past talked about being attracted to men). So then I wonder if maybe my boyfriend is using me as a way to get closer to his friend (just like I did?)

 

Maybe, but you don't buy the cake just to get the icing. Something tells me if they had wanted to get together by themselves, they would have done so by now. In the framework of a threesome, I'd think of it as just a happy side benefit of the relationship.

 

What would it be like if the two of them had sex?

 

You'll never know until it happens. Have you asked your b/f what he expects will come out of the situation?

 

Should I encourage it?

 

I certainly wouldn't discourage it.

 

My boyfriend talks about wanting to Swing, and having a MFF threesome. I tell him that I like the idea of that too, but the truth is I don't know if I do.

 

Then please don't tell him you do. It just sets up false expectations. Be honest with him about your feelings.

 

The only reason I agreed to a threesome was so I could have sex with his friend.

 

Now, was it to have sex with the friend, or your b/f and the friend?

 

Kind of cheating in plain sight, huh? Why can't my boyfriend see that? Why does he let me get away with making out with his friend every once in awhile?

 

You'll have to ask him. Dawn and our M play by themselves all the time. I don't need to know when it happens, as I trust both of them, especially Dawn. We've dealt with our insecurities years ago, so trust isn't an issue with us now. But your statements make me wonder what you are looking for out of the relationship. To me, it sounds like you enjoy your boyfriend for the person he is, but just love the other guy's dick. So what exactly is it you want your b/f to 'see'?

 

I feel guilty, but then I think that the idea of me being a slut turns my boyfriend on. There have been times during sex when he wanted me to describe to him things I did alone with his friend, and it turned him on. Sometimes when I go downstairs to use the bathroom and he knows his friend is down in the livingroom he'll say stuff to me like "You should flash him when you walk by" or "You should just go down naked." There have actually been times when we've been hanging out and my boyfriend pulled my skirt up to show his friend my new underwear. Like, who does that?

 

Me:) I've done stuff like that with Dawn and the other M's we've been with previously. I don't consider Dawn a "slut". She's just a very beautiful woman whom I love deeply. She just has a lot to offer a man, and I just enjoy showing her off and sharing. Our first few times with a new M are usually "getting to know her" sessions where I get to show him everything she likes and everywhere she likes it, in quite explicit detail.

 

The thing is that even though I make loose promises, I would never in a million years have a MFF threesome. I know it is a HUGE double standard on my part, but I would be way too jealous. So I try to make it up to my boyfriend by watching porn with him. Usually it would bother me knowing a boyfriend of mine was looking at other naked women...but then I know I'm not exactly in a position to be so judgemental!

 

This is where I'll state the "be honest about your feelings with your b/f" part again.

 

What I would ideally want is for us to just have an exclusive three-way relationship. But I know it is just a matter of time before his friend gets a girlfriend of his own. It's unreasonable, I know, but I feel like my boyfriend's friend is a part of our relationship. I don't want to lose him. What is all this?

 

Sounds like what we have, a live-in (basically) M who is our only playmate. He rents the mother-in-law apartment above our agrage and it works out great for all of us. I know previous history tells us he'll move on one day, but we'll just begin our search for a new play partner soon after.

 

 

And then I feel guilty whenever I don't have any contact with his friend, like I'm somehow betraying his friend by not being intimate with him. I just cannot read what my boyfriend wants. His mixed messages drive me nuts. I'm afraid to initiate another threesome on my own, even thought my boyfriend tries pretty frequently. But I just don't like the way he goes about it, wanting me to just bust out and start stripping right in the livingroom.

 

I guess some of my questions are:

 

1) Is it okay or totally inexcusable for me to fool around with his friend when my boyfriend isn't around (even though I tell him every time I do it). If he never outright forbids me to do it, does that mean he doesn't mind? Sometimes when I go downstairs to get something he'll say "Hurry back" which I take to mean "No fooling around." And then there are the other times when he'll suggest I flash his friend or go down naked. What should I think?

 

Your relationship seems to rely too heavy on code words/phrases, which may or may not mean what you/he think they mean. You need to talk honestly with the b/f.

 

2) Is it very likely that my boyfriend is bi and has wanted to be intimate with his friend for some time? What exactly does it mean that he gets turned on by me sleeping with/flashing his friend? Does it have to do more with me or his friend?

 

Either or both. You won't know until you ask. Hopefully he'll be honest about his feelings.

 

3) Is this at all normal?

 

Not usual, but IMO, not abnormal. The biggest issue I see here is (drum roll please) the lack of honesty about true feelings.

 

Okay, anyone ever been in an even remotely similiar situation? Any thoughts or advice? I'm sorry if I sound totally dumb...I never thought I'd find myself in a situation like this!

 

We wouldn't have our situation any other way, but we certainly can't say it's for everyone. My gut feeling on this one says be wary of the situation, because there's a huge possibility of entanglement and hurt feelings because honest feelings aren't being discussed between the parties involved.