Safe sex & herpes

Is there any way to have safe sex with someone who has herpes?

I don't think so, jerilyn432003.

From what I understand, condoms and vaginal dams aren't reliable because there is still some skin to skin contact.

Even if the skin is unblemished and there aren't any lesions, I believe you can still be exposed to the virus if the person has herpes.

Like they say: It's the gift that keeps on giving......

You're certainly correct when you say there is no 100% protection.

However...(there always is one )

Mere contact with an infected person will not cause you to "catch" it. You must have skin-to-skin contact with an infected person's outbreak site to "catch" herpes. Participating in oral sex with someone who has a cold sore can result in a genital herpes Type I infection.

As far as herpes II specifically: (All numbers approximate but close) 25% of the adult population has herpes. 3 in 12 persons one might meet at a club will have it. Of those 3, 2 won't even know it. A percentage of the individuals who do know will not acknowledge it. In any case, 1 of every 6 potential club partners will have herpes and not know it.

The following are some quotes from various papers I found on the Net:

Asymptomatic shedding (i.e. no sore present but viral shedding at the outbreak site) is most likely to occur in the week before or after a recurrence.

Taking daily antiviral medication reduces the frequency of episodes of viral shedding. This may be particularly helpful when you first get the herpes virus, as viral shedding is more frequent in the earlier days.

Asymptomatic shedding occurs more frequently in the first few years after primary genital herpes and declines with time. Herpes simplex type 1(cold sore herpes which about 90% of the entire population has), which causes an increasing proportion of genital HSV infections, is less frequently shed than is HSV type 2. The rate of shedding among men is similar to that of women. There is a positive correlation between symptomatic and asymptomatic reactivation: persons with frequent recurrences also have more asymptomatic shedding.

A recent study has begun to answer the question of whether a genital herpes patient taking a daily dose of an antiviral drug can lower the risk of transmitting HSV-2 to an uninfected partner. Three antiviral drugs are approved to treat or suppress outbreaks of genital herpes: acyclovir, famciclovir and valacyclovir. Most clinically apparent outbreaks can be prevented by taking one of these drugs daily. In addition, daily acyclovir reduces asymptomatic viral shedding by 95%.

Auto-inoculation: An infected individual can spread the virus to other parts of his or her body by touching an area shedding virus and then touching, scratching, or rubbing another susceptible part of the body.

Dr. Sherzer, an MD who gives lectures at LifeStyle conventions seems comfortable with using a NewSkin type barrier over the active sites and continuing to play!

How does this apply to the average couple who know they have herpes and those who'd like to play with them? Folks who are some years removed from their initial outbreak and who have been on a daily antiviral suppression regime since then are very unlikely to be asymptomatically shedding. They will know where their outbreak sites are, how long it has been since the last outbreak and any who play with them will be able to make an informed decision as to whether it is possible to avoid the sites. Standard safe sex practices (condoms/dental dams) can protect you from herpes if they cover the sites.

That is all very good information. It is also worth noting that many people have no outbreaks at all. From talking to others it appears that in most cases outbreaks seem to decline in frequency over the years. I know that I have had no outbreaks for more than 5 years. What I do not know is whether asymptomatic shedding is likely for those of us who rarely have outbreaks. I have seen no studies on this.

The other thing that is interesting is the fear associated with herpes. While I would not wish to expose anyone who did not know the risks, the disease itself is hardly life threatening. Suppressive treatments reduce the frequency of outbreaks to nearly zero (my wife rarely has outbreaks while taking the medicine) and also end outbreaks rather quickly. While some people have painful outbreaks, it is, as earlier posts point out, common for someone to have herpes and not even know it. In general then it is probably less significant in many ways to having the flu. The big drug companies make money by scaring people about the severity. Of course anything incurable is bad, but then we all have a terminal disease (life).

Imsnowman, Thanks for scaring the crap out of me. This is not a acceptable risk. How can anyone swing with this possibility hanging over their head. 25% that's crazy. So at the red Rooster, there's probably at least one person that has Herpes in that pile of bodies in one of their upstairs rooms. What? People just don't give a shit? There doesn't even need to be a visible out break to contract this virus. Are most people just not informed?

Imsnowman, Thanks for scaring the crap out of me. This is not a acceptable risk. How can anyone swing with this possibility hanging over their head. 25% that's crazy. So at the red Rooster, there's probably at least one person that has Herpes in that pile of bodies in one of their upstairs rooms. What? People just don't give a shit? There doesn't even need to be a visible out break to contract this virus. Are most people just not informed?

If you'll read both my post and the one just below it again you may come to the conclusion that there really is little to be afraid of. Herpes is not life-threatening and is little more than an inconvenience to most folks. Many people have it and don't even know it i.e., no symptoms.

I would agree that most people are not well-informed.

I would agree that most people are not well-informed.

Ditto

There are a lot of people that have HSV, but are asymptomatic....but they are still carriers and spreading the virus around unknowingly.

It's a scary world. You need to pick your partners carefully.

imsnowman said:

If you'll read both my post and the one just below it again you may come to the conclusion that there really is little to be afraid of. Herpes is not life-threatening and is little more than an inconvenience to most folks. Many people have it and don't even know it i.e. , no symptoms.

 

I would agree that most people are not well-informed.

It may not be life threatening, but the stigma of having a STD for the rest of my life is not an option. Thanks for your post. The info was very helpful.

We will just assume everybody is infected. Could you answer these questions? We're trying to find 100% safe boundaries here (may not be possible)

Assuming our partners are infected, can she or me give a lubricated hand job to our partner safely? That's skin to skin, but can you contract it on your hands.

Can a guy cum on her safely? She's got a fantasy of being in the center of a bunch of guys masturbating.

It seems like we're going to fall in the extremely soft swinger category

The problem with herpes and the REASON that 25% of the population is infected is that most people don't know they are. Males, especially, are very likely to be carriers only never actually exhibiting any symptoms. They can pass it on without ever knowing they had it... and add to that there is no accurate test for Herpes UNLESS you do have symptoms. It's no wonder that so many people have it.

We're trying to find 100% safe boundaries here (may not be possible)

The only 100% safe sex is if you where a virgin when you met your lady and she was the same and neither of you ever have any contact with anyone else.

Now, that can be done but betting that is not the case here at all.

Nothing in life is 100%. You have to decide what you want out of life and go for it. Be it this lifestyle, driving a car, flying or even walking out your front door. EVERYTHING has a risk to reward factor.

Only you can decide.

It may not be life threatening, but the stigma of having a std for the rest of my life is not an option. Thanks for your post. The info was very helpful.

 

We will just assume everybody is infected. Could you answer these questions? We're trying to find 100% safe boundaries here (may not be possible)

 

Assuming our partners are infected

 

Can she or me give a lubricated hand job to our partner safely? That's skin to skin, but can you contract it on your hands.

 

Can a guy cum on her safely? She's got a fantasy of being in the center of a bunch of guys masturbating.

 

It seems like we're going to fall in the extremely soft swinger category

As has been said there are no 100% guarantees with sex except strict monogamy with a person who is not infected with anything. However, your two scenarios are probably "safe". I haven't read anything about herpes on the hand.

For your own piece of mind do a Google search of herpes. There is a lot of information available. Then make a decision the consequences of which you can live with.

Ditto

 

There are a lot of people that have HSV, but are asymptomatic....but they are still carriers and spreading the virus around unknowingly.

 

It's a scary world. You need to pick your partners carefully.

So how do you pick your partners carefully, if they don't know and have never had reason to believe they are infected?

I go with Vegas on this one. Nothing is for sure. You have to be willing to take the risk...or just watch the action from the sidelines.

Quote

Assuming our partners are infected, can she or me give a lubricated hand job to our partner safely? That's skin to skin, but can you contract it on your hands.

 

Can a guy cum on her safely? She's got a fantasy of being in the center of a bunch of guys masturbating.

 

It seems like we're going to fall in the extremely soft swinger category

The virus is carried (assuming asymptomatic shedding) in the vicinity of the genitals, so a hand is almost certainly safe. Genital herpes is rarely located in the mouth, so even oral sex is comparatively safe. You can get oral herpes in the genitals, it is generally mild in that case. It is likely that a majority of adults have oral herpes, it is at least very common (cold sores). Semen is more problematical. While the virus is actually not carried in the semen (unlike HIV) any secretion around the genitals could pick up the virus. Your reaction is probably absolutely correct however, there is clearly no way to be safe, given the nature of the beast.

So how do you pick your partners carefully, if they don't know and have never had reason to believe they are infected?

I pray they're uninfected.

Like VegasLee was saying, there are risks to everything in life. I can't be 100% sure about anything in this world. I do the best that I can without having to sit on the sidelines.

I always use condoms. I only perform oral on those I'm comfortable with and I don't have anal sex with anyone other than my spouse. I'm selective in my choice of partners as well..... That's the best I can do.

Hey dreamer,

If you don't mind, let us know what you decide to do and how it goes for you both.

Hey dreamer,

If you don't mind, let us know what you decide to do and how it goes for you both.

Thanks for helping me out with the info everybody. We're still trying to formulate a strategy. I've come up with this idea for a full latex body spray that will function as a full body condom (just kidding) We've only had one very soft experience with another couple years ago (basically just had sex with our own wives in front of each other). Yeah, I know, yippee, we're walkin' on the wild side. We're trying to decide if it's even worth the risk, and if all the boundaries would just take the fun out of it. We've been only with each other for more than 12 years, so we're definitely clean, and our sex is stupendous. It would probably be a thrill for her just to dance naked at the Red Rooster.

Hey Dreamer,

Just wanted to say that we have done everything orally UN-protected. Any penile penetrations, vaginally or anally, we have had has been protected and have come down with nothing STD-wise.

If you are clean and your partners have lived as you two have then you are most likely not going to have any problems.

Like we have said, there is a risk to anything you do. Like Ves has said, nothing you are likely to get is fatal or can't be addressed. AIDS is nearly nonexistent in our lifestyle.

Don't spray yourself with anything unless it's the Orange & Black of the S.F. Giants!

Thanks for input DBL D, How long have you been doing this with your described boundaries?

BTW, how many of those posting on this thread has ever been tested for any of the non-life threatening STD's?

As Julie rightfully said, you can't test effectively for Herpes (for example), how do you know YOU'RE clean to start with? Simply being asymptomatic means nothing in the world of STDs...

Ok, here it goes: I took a course on STD's in college.

Genital Herpes: Most men have almost no signs or symptoms at all;, slight burning while urinating, slight itchiness. Women however will have some swelling, itchiness, sores, then the drying out and flakiness. You can only "catch" Herpes when you have an open wound of ANY kind come into contact with a sore. A Herpes out break can last anywhere from 7 to 10 days (the actual sores). Urination during an outbreak can be extremely painful and at times may require hospitalization. It is suggested that you let the affected area get plenty of air. Medication can reduce the length of the outbreak, However there is NO cure for this disease.

Things that can trigger an outbreak include:

Overexposure to the sun

Stress

Menstrual Cycle

When you are not having an active outbreak of the Herpes Virus it lays dormant in the base of your spine where it is undetectable by any tests. The outbreak can occur on your penis, vaginal area, or rectally.

So, I hope this answers some questions. Probably more info than you needed huh?

In golf, "Less Is More".

In swinging, "More Is More".

You can never have enough information...as long as it's good info.

You've shown folk what signs to look for and if they are honest people they'll stop swinging without protection.

What are the chances of contracting it? Can a husband or wife somehow give it to each other without the outside aid of another person? What is its cause? I just have trouble believing it's a problem the way that most people swing with someone they sorta know. Like has been said before: everything has a risk to it.

Are people so whacked out that they think that if they give you herpes you'll only have to play with them or something?

dreamer said:

Thanks for input DBL D, How long have you been doing this with your described boundaries?

We had our first encounter last March and have swapped with 6 couples for a total of 7 times altogether. Using condoms for intercourse, of course!

smileytattoo said:

Ok, here it goes: I took a course on STD's in college.

 

Genital Herpes: Most men have almost no signs or symptoms at all;, slight burning while urinating, slight itchiness. Women however will have some swelling, itchiness, sores, then the drying out and flakiness. You can only "catch" Herpes when you have an open wound of ANY kind come into contact with a sore. A Herpes out break can last anywhere from 7 to 10 days (the actual sores). Urination during an outbreak can be extremely painful and at times may require hospitalization. It is suggested that you let the affected area get plenty of air. Medication can reduce the length of the outbreak, However there is NO cure for this disease.

 

Things that can trigger an outbreak include:

Overexposure to the sun

Stress

Menstrual Cycle

 

When you are not having an active outbreak of the Herpes Virus it lays dormant in the base of your spine where it is undetectable by any tests. The outbreak can occur on your penis, vaginal area, or rectally.

 

So, I hope this answers some questions. Probably more info than you needed huh?

Unfortunately your information is pretty outdated.

You can catch herpes without any visible sores. There are several days out of the year where the skin contains the virus and can pass to another person if skin to skin contact is made.

Also, everyone here has failed to mention that you CAN be tested for HSV Antibodies in your system. There are 2 types of HSV. Type 1 & Type 2. If you have one of them (i.e. cold sores on the mouth (type 1)), it does lower your chances of picking up the other type (genital).

You can get genital on the mouth, or oral on the genitals. However, each type does prefer it's specific location.

I've been HSV positive for 2 years and I've only had one small outbreak (I'm male) about 6 months after contracting it. My current girlfriend has had one outbreak about a year ago with no further complications.

For the most part, it's been a very minor inconvenience in our lives. And yes, 1 in 4 people have the virus and most don't know they do. I didn't until I went and got blood tested.

sewfish11 said:

There are several days out of the year where the skin contains the virus and can pass to another person if skin to skin contact is made.

 

Also, everyone here has failed to mention that you CAN be tested for HSV Antibodies in your system. There are 2 types of HSV. Type 1 & Type 2. If you have one of them (i.e. cold sores on the mouth (type 1)), it does lower your chances of picking up the other type (genital).

From what I've read the only times you're infectious is IF you've had an outbreak. Then for a few days after the outbreak you might be infectious but not necessarily.

Also, the serum test is apparently inaccurate to a certain degree.

Gotta pipe in my .02 since I actually have the disease and boy did I have it (talk about the first outbreak... 70+ lesions... hurt like hell, getting the culture done wasn't any more comfortable).

Just a little background info, since I don't mind telling it, I've only slept with 3 guys to date - I don't swing yet as this (the STD) and my LDR keep me from wanting to venture into that area. I've been with my current boyfriend for 3 years and he doesn't have it - go figure, we don't use condoms.

I contracted the disease from guy #2 and he didn't even know he had it - I didn't even know I had it until I had an outbreak 1 year later after being quite involved with the current SO. We did use a condom, btw.

I must admit that for the first month to 3 months after finding out about it, I had some major psychological problems - what's wrong with me, why me, how, etc. But You come to live with it. It isn't something that's ever going to go away and seriously, after the first outbreak, the majority of people don't experience a recurrence.

If they do it's usually one or two lesions, they hurt, but they're gone within 10 days without medication. I've had Herpes for 3 years now, I haven't had an outbreak in 2. Personally, it's like getting a cold and I tend to treat it like that.

I agree that people should be more informed about the risks and the possibilities of contracting it, but you also shouldn't be scared out of your skin from it - it's here and as a number of people have spouted percentages it's not going away anytime soon.

We live close enough for a trip to AIM and had the blood test for HSV-2 done last summer...$60.

We plan to be very careful but truthfully, it's more dangerous on the freeways, IMHO.

I've been wanting to say this all along: Us people are CLEAN! All you folks who say you got something "one time", did you get it from a swinging partner? Are you sure? Are you sure you didn't pass along something to a swing partner that you may have picked up from someone who wasn't a swinger? I'm tellin' ya, the odds are way below national average for us swingers. Have you guys heard of some epidemic that's sweeping through the ranks of the swinging population?

As swingers, we all practice safe sex by knowing who we're dealing with.

I'm done! I think!

DBL D said:

I've been wanting to say this all along: Us people are CLEAN! All you folks who say you got something "one time", did you get it from a swinging partner? Are you sure? Are you sure you didn't pass along something to a swing partner that you may have picked up from someone who wasn't a swinger? I'm tellin' ya, the odds are way below national average for us swingers. Have you guys heard of some epidemic that's sweeping through the ranks of the swinging population?

 

As swingers, we all practice safe sex by knowing who we're dealing with.

 

I'm done! I think!

I think your tongue was also very firmly lodged in your cheek wasn't it?

imsnowman said:

I think your tongue was also very firmly lodged in your cheek wasn't it?

For the last statement? Yeah...does sound strange huh? What I think I meant was that you are going to take a chance in what ever you might do. I'm saying the chances are less with the swinging population than in general...use whatever term for "general" you like. Except celibates!

I think you do get to know some people pretty well. I have a pretty sharp ear and eye and if something doesn't look right then it's a no go. There are some very wonderful people out there who are very safe. We think we're two of them. Doesn't mean we won't play with condoms. Just means that we are interested in getting to the point where we won't have to use them with some of our partners. That's what I meant by "knowing them".

DBL D said:

For the last statement? Yeah...does sound strange huh? What I think I meant was that you are going to take a chance in what ever you might do. I'm saying the chances are less with the swinging population than in general...use whatever term for "general" you like. Except celibates!

 

I think you do get to know some people pretty well. I have a pretty sharp ear and eye and if something doesn't look right then it's a no go. There are some very wonderful people out there who are very safe. We think we're two of them. Doesn't mean we won't play with condoms. Just means that we are interested in getting to the point where we won't have to use them with some of our partners. That's what I meant by "knowing them".

I have been tested...Negative...I have had my hepatitis shots...clean & good to go...

I am a single male, I do not play/swing with just any one for the sake of playing...

I have been playing/swinging with friends of mine for 4 years now, they know when I have been with "someone" else, which isn't very often, because I tell them.

I think everyone in here is aware and plays smart...Keep it up!!! No pun intended.

I don't know... I think there's an intensified stigma attached to any disease as soon as it becomes associated with sex and/or genitalia and it is designated as "incurable". I have oral herpes and have outbreaks about every 6 months. Talk about a terrible thing! It's a horrible social disease! Back in college, I'd have an outbreak and skip going to the bars for a week or so. They're painful, horrible looking blisters that itch and bleed for about 3 days, and then they turn into crusty scabs for at least another week. And, worst thing is, I have it... forever until I die.

Now, as far as genital herpes go, I may be one of the 25% who has it but doesn't know it. I have never shown any signs of outbreak "down there" and if I had to answer the question, "Do you have genital herpes?" on a questionnaire, I'd have no problem marking the "no' box. But honestly, I think IF genital herpes was more socially acceptable, I'd probably trade my oral herpes for the genital kind just because I wouldn't have to walk around in public for ten days out of every six months with those goddamn things on my lips!

What's the point to all this? I don't know, I guess I'm just wondering if one disease is actually worse than another just because it's associated with sex. I could easily pass on oral herpes to another person by simply kissing them (tongue not necessary, just a peck is enough!) But somehow this is more understandable, less frightening, and more forgivable simply because it doesn't involve sex and genitalia in any way and only involves peoples FACES (!!!) which people see all the time. I know STD's are the mother of all mood-busters, but when put into perspective, isn't it possible most of us (including me) overreact towards them? Just some food for thought.

To all those who asked if you can get herpes on your hands

After carefully surfing the web I found this picture and thought of the question asked, and YES you can, as well as ANYWHERE else on the body.

From what I've read the only times you're infectious is IF you've had an outbreak. Then for a few days after the outbreak you might be infectious but not necessarily.

You can shed asymptomatically even if you've never had an outbreak so that is not correct.

If someone has never had an outbreak how would they know they were infected? How would they be able to test for shedding since they wouldn't know where to test?

You can have a blood test to look for the antibodies. This test, from what I understand, is not 100%.

You can have a blood test to look for the antibodies. This test, from what I understand, is not 100%.

True, but, if you don't have any symptoms, i.e. outbreaks, why would you get tested? And if you're going to test for shedding you have to know where the specific spot is. Practically speaking, I can't see how anyone could show asymptomatic shedding without knowing the spot to test. And I can't see how you'd know the spot without having had an outbreak. Seems like a "Catch 22" to me.

I know little of herpes but, found the following interesting excerpt from an article in Iron Magazine, written by Curtis Koch , entitled `Creatine: Beyond the Confusion - part I (think it was published in Sept. 2001?)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did You Say Herpes?

What can you say about herpes? It's kind of like one of those girls that are fun to pick up and party with - until she moves in with you, becomes a disgusting living nightmare, and Never, Ever leaves---Ever. If you were in this situation and someone told you how to keep the little "lady" under control, I think you would want to hear about it, wouldn't you.

Apparently creatine can help inhibit the replication of herpes simplex 1 and 2 (HVS-1, HVS-2), and may reduce morbidity and mortality of those who suffer from HVS-2. A practitioner at Camp Pendleton Marine Base who was treating several cases of herpes noticed that several of his patients failed to return for periodic acyclovir therapy. After inquiring, it was revealed that these patients had all commenced supplemental creatine after their last outbreak and had experienced no further outbreaks & apparently cyclocreatine, a synthetic compound structurally and functionally homogolous to creatine, has the ability to inhibit HVS-1 and HVS-2. Because creatine and cyclocreatine have shown neuroprotective and cancer-retardant effects in rodents, the speculation exists the creatine shares the anti-viral ability of cyclocreatine.

In the United States approximately 45 million individuals (about one in five people over age 12) are infected with HVS-2. Furthermore, there will be up to 1 million new HVS-2 infections transmitted each year. With 45 million people in the United states suffering from herpes I believe that anything that can prevent these unfortunate people from future outbreaks should be looked at very seriously. If you could only prevent your mother-in-law from coming back by giving her a little creatine...

==========================================================

(As with any substance you should check with your Doctor first)

Also, if you do an internet search using the words "DMSO and Herpes" you may find an alternate treatment.

Take care everyone.

True, but, if you don't have any symptoms, i. outbreaks, why would you get tested?

And if you're going to test for shedding you have to know where the specific spot is.

I get tested because I have multiple sex partners.

I think if anyone had a suspicious lesion around their genital area a doctor would have a good idea where the specific spot is located.

I understand all that you say. My original point was why in response to TnJ2Play's post stating; "You can shed asymptomatically even if you've never had an outbreak so that is not correct.". This response was in response to my post stating “From what I've read the only times you're infectious is IF you've had an outbreak. Then for a few days after the outbreak you might be infectious but not necessarily.”

If one has not had an outbreak then one would not know that one even has herpes. So how would anyone test for asymptomatic shedding? Herpes doesn’t just randomly pop-up everywhere on the body. The only way to test for shedding is to have a specific spot. So their point that one can shed asymptomatically even if you've never had an outbreak sounds very difficult to prove. If as you say there is a suspicious lesion then one has now had an outbreak.

The fairly unreliable blood test does not show whether the individual is actively shedding. It just shows if they’ve been exposed and have antibodies present.

imsnowman said:

If one has not had an outbreak then one would not know that one even has herpes. So how would anyone test for asymptomatic shedding? Herpes doesn’t just randomly pop-up everywhere on the body. The only way to test for shedding is to have a specific spot. So their point that one can shed asymptomatically even if you've never had an outbreak sounds very difficult to prove. If as you say there is a suspicious lesion then one has now had an outbreak.

 

The fairly unreliable blood test does not show whether the individual is actively shedding. It just shows if they’ve been exposed and have antibodies present.)

imsnowman, I think I can answer at least part of your question. I am HSV2 positive but have never had intercourse (or any other sexual contact) with anyone showing symptoms. So, technically, I received the disease from asymptomatic shedding. To my knowledge, there is no way to actually test for the virus itself because it is in small quantities anywhere but significant sores. Probably the easiest way to show asymptomatic shedding is real and exists is to track the transmission of the disease among people who don't show symptoms; my guess is that this is how the asymptomatic shedding is being investigated. Personally, I have never shown a symptom of the disease, but I absolutely take precautions to minimize the risk of transmission to partners.

As to your point of the antibody tests, they give no indication of whether someone is currently shedding the virus. They show you whether you have HSV1 or HSV2 antibodies in your bloodstream. The most recent versions of these tests are actually decently accurate. After receiving a positive test, I ran the numbers and found that I had only a %10 chance of a false-positive. I can't quote you the sensitivity and specificity of the test off the top of my head, but they at least give a decent bench mark. I think that the tests of active herpes lesions are relatively accurate as well (not positive on this one). The older blood tests were terrible and close to worthless.

Two more things and then I promise I'm finished

1. Very few people infected with HSV2 know they have it. This is for the most part because most of the people with the disease either show no symptoms or such minor symptoms that they're never identified as herpes. Symptoms can be as subtle as a small red bump easily confused for a pimple or ingrown hair (which everybody gets). This reinforces the point that the worst potential part of the disease is the stigma.

2. Estimates vary quite a bit, but from my research, approximately %80 of people are infected with HSV1 orally (estimates range as low as %50 and as high as %90-95, around %80 seems like the most common answer). Most don't show symptoms. Around %25 of women and %20 of men are infected with HSV2; the vast majority of these cases are genital herpes rather than oral herpes.

I hope I wasn't too long-winded. Great discussion everybody!

imsnowman, I think I can answer at least part of your question. I am HSV2 positive but have never had intercourse (or any other sexual contact) with anyone showing symptoms. So, technically, I received the disease from asymptomatic shedding. To my knowledge, there is no way to actually test for the virus itself because it is in small quantities anywhere but significant sores. Probably the easiest way to show asymptomatic shedding is real and exists is to track the transmission of the disease among people who don't show symptoms; my guess is that this is how the asymptomatic shedding is being investigated.

I was told by a clinician at Planned Parenthood that they followed people with definite genital herpes for 1 year and swabbed the known lesion areas on a regular basis - maybe everyday- regardless of whether or not there was a visible outbreak. That's how they found asymptomatic shedding. For these people the shedding would start a few days before a visible outbreak. Now that's 2nd hand (or maybe 3rd or more) information.

Three weeks ago I had my first outbreak. No one has 'fessed up. When we spoke to the "prime suspect," he seemed stunned. He seemed to decide that it couldn't be him, which is understandable given that he's had no symptoms and when faced with the possibility of having herpes you (or at least we) try hard to hold onto anything that hints otherwise. At least we told him and hopefully he'll be more watchful for symptoms now and be more careful about correct condom usage than he was with us.

Hi, just joined and was going through threads and am a safe sex freak, so wanted to pass on some info. Herpes is a "genital std" but can show up on other body parts. Hence a person with herpes can have an outbreak that shows up on their hands or other body parts. I know it is rare, but my stepmother was unable to hold certain jobs because of this. (although she and my father were married for 13 or so years and he never contacted it) Also when you go to get tested, you have to ask specifically for a herpes test and that can cost up to $150. A lot of doctors don't test without evidence of actual sores as so much of the population is infected, it is not considered "dangerous", and is incurable.

Just wanted to pass it along.

Just adding my info in as well...I am a social worker by trade and I am non judgmental and (unfortunately sometimes) people just love to confide deep dark secrets to me. I know a ton of people with herpes. I know women who have had children after herpes, they were fine. I had sex with someone who I found out through the grapevine has herpes, I don't know if he had it when I was with him and didn't know it or not, or if he lied. I have never had any symptoms and have since had a child and all the testing done during that time and no one mentioned anything. Do I think I could be asymptomatic... maybe. It is possible, after reading the comments on this site, I will not make the mistake of being tested. If I do happen to have it, it is not causing any problems.

Just a couple thoughts...I know so many people with it, I think those who have had a lot of multiple partners are kidding themselves not to think that they probably have it. Same with HPV. Just to put it in numbers, if you have had sex with 10 people at least 3 HAVE HAD IT, and either didn't know or didn't tell you. Denial, denial, denial.

I've had herpes about 15 years now... I've learned a few things I can share here. Since 15 years, I've had about five different partners. Only one contracted it from me (I think she did... This was early on when I was symptomatic once a month, or more). Other girlfriends I know did not get. I had/have it severely. It shows up times when my immune system is over run, i.e. - no sleep, several days of heavy drinking such as in college when I first got it, job stress... thing like this. You CAN get it on different body parts. It's called "shingles". Sometimes I can tell when it is coming. My situation is it itches like crazy and red spots show up. For me also, the spots move around. Doctors all say it stays in one place. Not the case in my situation.

If you are in the swinger lifestyle it seems like it is a good chance you will be exposed to this, or something similar. There really is a stigma attached that is unwarranted. Several of my partners didn't know what it was and the best way to describe it is "dick zits". Red spots show up and stay a week or two, similar to facial zits many of us had in our youth. They go away 1-2 weeks roughly, quicker if you take some pills. That's it. It's really not a horrible thing. More the stigma about being in a private area.

One person posted that his wife wanted a sperm facial. Well, I am happy to report I give my wife this often and several X girlfriends. To date, no issues. I will say though that symptoms on woman are hard to detect. Often times it is inside where it is not visible.

As far as shedding... I have read and spoken to doctors who say this is possible. I've also heard drug company adds say it is possible to spread even if you have no symptoms. I'm not sure about this. I've been with my wife 5 years now and never really used condoms. I get symptoms now and again and we are careful. It would seem that in 5 years she would have gotten it had I been shedding all this time. She does not have that we know of.

I guess I will pose the question here, what would people on the list do about having this and wanting to explore a few 3-some fantasies? I'm thinking we will be shunned, and won't be welcome to have intercourse with other couples. Opinions?? My wife has never been with another man before and she is kind of curious. Not sure how this might affect the future.

One clarification, dream43. The herpes virus that causes shingles and chicken pox is not the same as the herpes virus that causes genital herpes (which can be sexually transmitted) and herpes mouth sores. I don't know what you've got that causes the itching red spots, but it's not genital herpes, it's something else.

We have found that if you are up front about it you will not be shunned. A large number of people will not play with you, but quite a number will. Also the number who have it and don't mention it in profiles is too large. Informed people will sometimes play, because knowledge will let them know that it is better to be careful with someone who you know has it than be surprised by the deceptive and ignorant people who have it. Also we have had good luck with the Herpes_Swingers group on Yahoo, we have met several nice couples there. We actually prefer to play with others who already have it. Given the numbers, it is not hard to find others to play with.

Good luck

We recently found an unwelcome visitor in a very sensitive place. Mrs has been diagnosed with HSV2 and following this initial post, early tomorrow morning I will see if the clinic can confirm if I also have it. I have had HSV1 as long as I remember. Open sores on gums however not frequent, almost all in fall or winter. Also small bumps on tongue tip that have a pretty intense sting about them.

We have a group we belong too and have been to several parties in the last year. Mrs finds she just can't participate with a clear conscious and I agree it's best I don't tho I have never exhibited any symptoms. So now we are putting this out in the open. We wanted to go on the basis that transmission doesn't have to occur but find it deceptive and unethical. So from now on we will enter into couples situations or parties as a knowingly infected couple. I will post the results of my upcoming appointment. We have an incredible friend we love dearly who does not yet know and we know she deserves honesty. It hurts us we could lose her. That would be like a death in the family.

So we have these conflicts and whatever we have done wrong in the past we intend to avoid in the future. I hope people understand the soul searching and agony this is putting us through. We are sure there are many like us.

We hope to make new friends similarly infected. We want to swing and be guilt free in the process.

Everyone has facts and opinions...here are mine.

First, women who have cervical dysplasia have HSV. Most doctors don't explain this to them. Cervical cancer is almost exclusively caused by HSV. Many women are only diagnosed by having a cervical biopsy when an abnormal pap smear comes up.

On top of that, not only can you be a carrier or an "asymptotic shedder" but someone can have ONE tiny little lesion and be unaware of it - remember, the lesions are not only located on the genitals but on the cervix as well.

Given this, it is no wonder that most people don't know they have it and how rampantly it is spreading.

Also, you can be a carrier or be infected but it lies dormant for YEARS and then becomes active, so you may never know where or when you contracted it if you've been sexually active with more than one partner in your life.

Herpes carries a stigma to it as it has for many years, but I think we really need to learn to accept it as a part of life. It is a VIRUS. No different from a cold. Just because it is passed on sexually, that does not make it a "dirty" disease or make the person who has it dirty.

Dropping this stigma will make people more open to learning about it, getting themselves diagnosed and treated and even prevent more deaths as cervical cancer is easy to treat IF FOUND EARLY. No one WANTS to have it, but I think society is going to have a bigger problem if they don't start recognizing it and get over the reputation it has because eventually it may become a matter of not IF you get it but WHEN will you get it.

"First, women who have cervical dysplasia have HSV. Most doctors don't explain this to them. Cervical cancer is almost exclusively caused by HSV."

Uhh... wrong. Cervical cancer is caused by the human papilloma virus. However

... "certain herpesviruses (HSV), including HSV-6, HSV-2, HSV-7, and cytomegalovirus, have been detected in women with cervical cancer. HSV-6 is under particular suspicion as playing a role in activating the papillomavirus gene. The presence of these very common viruses, however, may simply be coincidental, and they may serve no purpose other than being bystanders." University of Maryland Medical Center

I had cervical cancer about 15 years ago. It was not caused by herpes. I did not have herpes.