View Full Version : Rates of AIDS/ STDs amongst swingers ?
11-06-2001, 02:08 PM
There have been several posts on the subject of swinging and how to protect oneself. Obviously, if you know the couple/s well enough and limit swapping for sexual intercourse within the group, we would think the chances of contracting STD?AIDS is virtually zero.
What about when you meet a couple for the first time and swap for penile/vaginal intercourse? What is the statistical probability of getting AIDS (which is incurable)or other STDs (curable)from woman's vagina or man's penis?
We often hear that AIDS amongst swingers is quite rare? Is this true and does anyone have actual statistics?
11-06-2001, 02:36 PM
I may be wrong. But I think www.libchrist.com (http://www.libchrist.com) carries some stats on this issue. They would come closer to having these figures than anyone else.
Might check it out :p
11-07-2001, 01:49 PM
Danc694U, thanks for the reference to libchrist re AIDS and heterosexual intercourse. The information is exteremely credible and has put our mind at ease regarding swinging with other couples and indulging sexual activities including swapping spouses for penile/vaginal intercourse.Previously we had heard about some such statistics from other bulletin boards, but without reference to the source of these data.
Just in general, the libchrist site has a great deal of information that every couple interested in lifestyle ought to read!
Thanks again. :)
11-07-2001, 05:51 PM
And best of all! They're local for you :D www.libchrist.com (http://www.libchrist.com) that is
11-08-2001, 06:49 PM
May I suggest this web site instead? It comes from the Center for disease control and probably has more accurate and up to date stats than the liberated christian web site. By the way, does anyone know where the liberated christian web site gets their stats and how ofter are they updated?
I hope I write this correctly, It's long :D
If that doesn't work, try web md then type in hiv and see if that will pull it up.
[ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: lycioos ]
[ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: lycioos ]
11-08-2001, 06:58 PM
O.k I tried it and it sorta works. It will take you to the web md site. Type hiv in the search and go to artical 3 about how hiv causes aides. It's very good reading. I stink at this posting web site stuff. I tried.
[ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: lycioos ]
11-08-2001, 07:56 PM
They contain a link to the CDC within their site :D
Truthfully, I wouldn't trust stats from CDC either. Have you watched the news lately? Seems they're outdated also.
When you have government officials quoting stats. You always have to question where and how they come about them.
As a former survey taker. I can assure you, I can make the Pope sound like he is a flaming red dress wearing Trans-sexual. And, everything will be on the up & up.
So, in reality, we're not sure where we stand with any stats. But we do know, government stats are used to bolster budgets within all agencies.
[ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: danc694u ]
11-09-2001, 02:50 PM
Of greater credibility is the Wall Street Journal article on AIDS and government propaganda regarding it. Generally the WSJ articles are well researched and credible.
Is there any other source besides webmd re heterosexual swingers contracting AIDS as result of penile/vaginal intercourse?
How many of you couples insist on the male using a condome if it is a couple you have met for the first time? and do not know their background and/or sexual habits/preferences? Do you ask to see blood test report?
There is a new swinger resort(swingerkaribik)that we believe requires certificates of all participants.At least their ad says so.
11-09-2001, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by neal7310:
<STRONG>There is a new swinger resort(swingerkaribik)that we believe requires certificates of all participants.At least their ad says so.</STRONG>
We're not going to ask for a blood test! That said, what's the point of knowing that a couple was clean 2 months ago?
Obviously, the club you mention is catering to peoples fears. Which are very real! But they are also (maybe) providing a setting that allows many people access, swingers and non-swingers. Especially when you think of the number of hookers that are willing to attend to get ahold of a single male that attends.
11-09-2001, 05:12 PM
I guess we feel like if you are going to offend someone better to error on the safer sides of things. hmmm, does that make sense?
Any how, alway better to be safe than sorry, exspecially when dealing with your life.
No condom, no playing - simple as that. :D
11-09-2001, 05:17 PM
After giving it a few moments of thought, I thought I should add that while condoms do take some of the fun out of play time, you can always make up for that with your spouce. After all, it is only suppose to intice and add, not take place of. As parents of samll children, we would like to be healthy enough to watch them grow up. I'm not saying that ALL std's are incurrable or anything like that, of course not, but getting one, of any kind, would of course change your life to one degree or another.
11-09-2001, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by lycioos:
<STRONG>hmmm, does that make sense?
Makes plenty here :D
11-10-2001, 04:04 AM
std information is everywhere. I wont use a a rubber period. Tam has had unprotected sex a few times with very trusted men and we dont give it a second thougt. So far I have only had oral and manual with other females. But when the ole boy enters the wondrous forbidden fruit its gonna be totally unprotected and we will trust our instincts with the person. I know swingers that have in the vicinity of 20 plus unprotected sex with partners per month and they are all healthy and fit as a fiddle. Most std's are passed through anal sex with drug users. Also the younger single population gets them much more than swingers. The santimonious people that are so much wiser and holier than though with there overprotectionism never fail to lamblast my opinion on this subject but thats okay.....just my observation. If hiv or other std's were a problem then the clubs would be closed down like bars in the bible belt. Sex without plenty of bodily fluids flowing everywhere is just plain boring and tasteless (scuse the pun). JOhn
11-10-2001, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by michigancouple:
<STRONG> If hiv or other std's were a problem then the clubs would be closed down like bars in the bible belt</STRONG>
Now I have to chime in here :D I live in the bible belt. And, while your comment is somewhat true. We're changing that :D
We currently have 4 socials locally. One has gotten so big that they limit the number of couples. We're on the list for tonight :D So is Danalli :p
We did have a raid earlier this year at a social north of us. We just happen to miss that one. Whew!! This same "bust" has brought about at least one...million dollar lawsuit against the Police Dept., outcome unknown at this time.
The deep south/Bible Belt is changing, slowly but surely. Of course it's getting help from people like us.
If you're familiar with the "Moral Minority", there's a group that needs to be shut down!! I used to live in the "hometown" of their so-called leader. It sucked. It still sux! Bars stop serving at midnite. Anyone caught with a open container after midnight, gets a free ride :mad: to the police station.
But, we are seeing more and more "Adult" oriented bars here. That's due to some people being fed up with the BS, and filing lawsuits. If we can't do our thing peacefully & privately, then we will do it legally out in the open, with help from State & Federal Courts.
I still stand by the time honored "Consenting Adults" theory.
11-10-2001, 03:17 PM
I agree with you with the whole consentin adults issue, but I also agree with the no drinking after midnight thing too. The reason being, is in alot of causes, that flows out of the "consenting adult" catagory. People who still continue to drink past midnight can get really plastered (not that you can't before hand but the more time allowed, the greater the risk) then they wind up driving themselves home and wham... into the dad who works the late shift and is trying to get home to his family. :mad: Now, if people choose to get wasted till they puke in the privacey of their own homes I say all the power to ya. :cool: Just keep it at home.
11-10-2001, 03:25 PM
But when the ole boy enters the wondrous forbidden fruit its gonna be totally unprotected and we will trust our instincts with the person.
The key word here is "trust". No point on insisting that the male cover his penis with a condom if you engage in intercourse with a couple you know well. The condom takes away all the pleasure as far as I, the male, is concerned if your penis cannot feel fully and luxuriate in the warm slipery vaginal fluids.
Swinging with couples one meets for the first time at a ocnvention or club would be another matter. Better safe than sorry-i.e. cover your penis before you enter her vagina.
11-10-2001, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by lycioos:
<STRONG>but I also agree with the no drinking after midnight thing too Now, if people choose to get wasted till they puke in the privacey of their own homes I say all the power to ya. :cool: Just keep it at home.</STRONG>
That applies to those who are fool hardy enough to pull that stunt. We go out...drink. And, stay at a motel..PERIOD!! There is no driving involved. If there is! I (David) refuse to have more than one or two drinks for the whole night..PERIOD!
Even when we stay at a motel, I taper off around 11 or 12. Just because I can't stand that "seasick" feeling involved with too much liquor.
While we may not be the "norm" for drinkers. I certianly have to watch every penny. DUI plus the chance of hitting a Rolls Royce and killing someone, is not something we work into our annual budget!! It's far cheaper to get a room for the night. And, well within our budget.
The problem is no matter how well you know and "trust" someone, many people have STD's for monthes or even years with no symptoms. Of course you trust them not to KNOWINGLY put you at risk. But that doesn't account for the person who has no idea themselves they were infected 6 weeks or 6 mothes ago!
They same with a club requiring AIDS test results for all couples, unless you are tested every 4 weeks they are only moderately accurate.
Me personally I would never put myself in a position of having to have blood drawn every 4 weeks.........Nothing I hate more.
The previous poster who said AIDS was only spread thru anal sex with drug users ...... I am curious where you get your info?
Even in anal sex, the receiving party (male or female) is really the only one at risk. In regular intercourse also, the female is at a MUCH higher risk than the male.
11-10-2001, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by LIZA:
<STRONG>unless you are tested every 4 weeks they are only moderately accurate.</STRONG>
News Flash for you!! What the CDC and your doctor won't tell you!! Any Doctors here willing to can me a liar?
From The Horses Mouth
Once exposed to a needle, accidently of course, in a hospital environemt. Nurses at the hospital (name withheld) are required to be tested immediately, then again at 30 days, and every 6 months for the remainder of their employ. And, while it may be against the law to test YOU. It can and does happen in the event of an accidental stick. And, I don't blame them one bit.
End Horses Mouth
The CDC itself, is still not in agreement as to the "means" of spreading AIDS/HIV. It's about a 25/25/25/25 split. Some say saliva & sweat can spread it. Some say it can't. But, with the majority of Doctors getting tested for "non-contagious" exposure. Why would we believe that it takes a sexual act to get it?
Should we wear real rain coats now?
11-11-2001, 08:06 AM
Danc694u, I wish more people were as responsible as you when it comes to drinking. I they were, we wouldn't need all these stupid laws telling us what we can or can not do!!! :D
That said, I go back to my first statement. Have fun, but Best to be safe, than sorry.
11-13-2001, 03:55 AM
Statistics show that the second highest killer in automobile accidents is sleeping at the wheel. I in fact had an accident due to my falling asleep once. I was lucky and hurt noone but i was to blame. But to pass a law to ban tired drivers would be akin to legislation forbiddig drinking past midnight. Many public establishments would suffer greatly if such laws were passed. I gotta disagree on that one. Just enforce the laws we have. Dont drive drunk and you will not cause accidents due to drunk driving.
And to answer Liza....I did not say that aids is only passed by drug users or whatever. The highest risk is undoubtedly in that group though. I would bet my last dollar that more swingers have been injured or killed driving to the swing club than through std's while swinging. Risk factors are so overblown by the media that it is ludicrous. As I stated I know many swingers that swing unprotected and have for many years and none of them have ever gotten any disease. I know three that have been killed or maimed in car accidents on the way to or from a swinging party. One is a very attractive female completely paralyzed. She still attends functions though.
If you choose to totally eliminate all risks in life it would be a pretty boring life. John
Actually what you had said was
"Most std's are passed through anal sex with drug users."
Which is simply not true. IV DRUG use AND anal sex increase the risk of HIV infection greatly. But you certainly can't guarantee your safety simply by not having anal sex with drug users!
If you are comfortable having unprotected sex with multiple partners, that's certainly your right. But don't make statements as fact that are not true. There are some naive people in the world who might take them to heart.
11-13-2001, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by michigancouple:
If you choose to totally eliminate all risks in life it would be a pretty boring life. John</STRONG>
Hmmm, You think that may be why I have to keep all that Arthritus Formula BC around? LOL Jeeeez! I should have led a boring life...NOT!
I agree with your comment :D
11-14-2001, 07:52 AM
Ok Liza, I mispoke. It is well known that MOST aids in the USA are cases that are transmitted through anal sex received by drug users OR drug users sharing needles....scuse me. Very little risk of a female receiving aids through vaginal sex with a male that does not recieve anal sex. Granted you don't know for sure if he does but most don't. No need to alarm people for no reason either. As I said and will say again. Swingers clubs are notorious for unprotected sex and I know of no outbreaks. Personally we just choose to play very infrequently anyhow and select our partners very carefully. The aids issue has been so blown out of proportion it is ridiculous. JUST MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION. I don't need mind police telling me what to think.
10-23-2002, 08:50 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by michigancouple:
<strong>std information is everywhere. I wont use a a rubber period. Tam has had unprotected sex a few times with very trusted men and we dont give it a second thougt. So far I have only had oral and manual with other females. But when the ole boy enters the wondrous forbidden fruit its gonna be totally unprotected and we will trust our instincts with the person. I know swingers that have in the vicinity of 20 plus unprotected sex with partners per month and they are all healthy and fit as a fiddle. Most std's are passed through anal sex with drug users. Also the younger single population gets them much more than swingers. The santimonious people that are so much wiser and holier than though with there overprotectionism never fail to lamblast my opinion on this subject but thats okay.....just my observation. If hiv or other std's were a problem then the clubs would be closed down like bars in the bible belt. Sex without plenty of bodily fluids flowing everywhere is just plain boring and tasteless (scuse the pun). JOhn</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree with you totally, and that's how I live my life--trusting my instincts. :)
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