Got to get some things off my chest

[cupl4fun]

Not sure if this is the place for this but here goes.

Okay, I've had lots of things nagging at me for a long time and just want to be open and honest about them (don't worry I'm not about to blast anybody from the board.) I haven't been able to be perfectly honest about who I am on this board because for the past twelve years I have been the pastor of a church. (Yes, that's the reason I get involved in the religious discussions on this board, I just can't help myself). Sorry if people feel like I've been dishonest because I really didn't mean to be. I've just been scared.

Here's the thing; I hate my job and I hate Christianity. My wife and I are trying to get out. We'll be completely leaving the "Church" as soon as we can. For those of you who are Christian I hope you don't read this and get too offended (I'm not sure how many will actually read this anyway). I know a lot of good christian people who are kind, loving people. but I hate the institution of the church. I hate the religion of christianity.

What's funny is that I am amazed by the person of Jesus. I look at the gospels and I see a kind, caring, compassionate person whom I would much like to emulate. Then I look at the religion which is supposed to be based on his teachings and I see judgment, narrow mindedness, misogyny, greed and the like. I can't help but think "What the f@ck happened?"

I look at Jesus and see a person who would love and accept me as a cussing, sex loving person who desperately wants to help make the world a better place and just love people (which is why I got into the ministry). But in "his church" I can't be me. I would first be fired and then ostracized and viewed as a deviant. I actually believe (despite the church's teachings) that I'm a good person.

The church creates a bunch of fake, unreal people who live in fear of judgment from other christians and from their angry God. It's so exhausting and I'm just sick of it.

Now I'm not sure where I fit in. I want a place where people will let my wife and I be who we are. This desire is a lot of what draws me to swinging and to this board (there's the sex thing too). Yet, when people hear that we work at a church we fear they'll close up and run away (and I don't blame them). They fear exactly what I do.

I hope this doesn't cause problems because that's not my intent. I just needed to vent. I hope that's okay.

[tribbles]

I think it's okay. Grow to be who you are. Do what works for you to stay sane on the inside.

Look at all the good in the journey along the way.

[ktimephoenix]

I say good on you for having the courage to say that, and to stand up and go against the faith that has probably been "ingrained" in you for a very long time.

I am an avowed athiest. the pursuit of science as a career has furthered that.

much of what you see wrong with the church is also alot of what turns open minded people away. What you say about Jesus is also true. Many well known athiests will argue that the teachings of Christ are valuable, even taken with their view that the "son of god" part is a fabrication. The Jesus of the new testiment is as you say, a kind, generous soul that we should all try to emulate.

my piece of advice is this. you will never "fit in" until you are completely comfortable with yourself. if that means leaving the church behind (which you are), then that's what it takes. to find a group that accepts you for who you are, you first have to be comfortable enough in your own skin to be the REAL you.

If Mrs P. and i met you at a swingers event, and you said you worked for the church, we would probably enjoy the irony. we certainly wouldn't run.

i share your feelings towards the "fake" people. i don't think it is just the christian faith that does that. perhaps it is a negative side to humanity. one thing that has tickled me when it comes to religious people who judge me for my actions, my beliefs, or whatever, is the fact that i probably live closer to the "scripture" than they do. many of them aren't kind or generous like they are supposed to be, they are guilty of envy, lust, and greed. plus isn't it only god who has a right to judge?

that extends to when religion tries to govern the non-religious, especially when it comes to sexuality... people don't understand that the message they are sending is that God can't do a thing about the suffering in Zimbabwe, or any other unfortunate part of the world, because he is too busy peeping through my curtains to make sure i'm not masturbating/having same sex relations/having sex outside of marriage.

So i guess what i'm saying is, well done for standing up for yourself, thinking for yourself, and i hope you get the support you need through this period of adjustment.

[JustAskJulie]

You are not the first nor will you be the last. There are actually pastors who have managed to merge their faith with their choice to swing and continue to do both. I personally don't understand how you can do that in a typical church (although there may be some "non-demoninational" church where it may be considered ok), in general I would think this falls under lying and would go against what most churches believe.

BTW, you also aren't the only ex-pastor on this board either, so you aren't alone.

I was also raised very religious and have come to the same feelings that you do. If Christian actually means "christ like" as it is supposed to then I can deal with that label, but it no longer means that for most people... or they have forgotten who Christ really was. While I don't necessarily consider the Bible as an ultimate truth, I do believe there is truth in it. I don't know that I believe Christ was the "son of God" or even that God truely exists, but I do believe there was a man named Jesus who did some wonderful things and set a wonderful example for how people should live. I strive to be Christian (Christ Like), but I do not consider myself A CHRISTIAN. Hopefully, you follow that logic.

[cupl4fun]

Thanks for letting me vent guys. Thanks for providing me a relatively safe place to do that.

"I strive to be Christian (Christ Like), but I do not consider myself A CHRISTIAN. Hopefully, you follow that logic"

Julie I totally understand that logic. It is much the same as where Mrs. Cupl and I find ourselves.

[Zoe&Wash]

Wow - that's big.

Z and I belong to a church and our child attends school at the same, but we're not called upon to make the same kind of sacrifices that a lot of Christians, especially the Texas ones, are called upon to make.

The pastor doesn't look down his nose at us when we make our quartenary appearance in church, the other parishoners always say "Hey!" when they see us in the back row, and they haven't returned any of our checks yet.

That said, our church has weathered enough bad press in the last few years that they're not all that picky about who shows up on Sunday anymore.

I've never had to turn my back on my profession and my upbringing, and God willing, I'll never have to. But if I had to, I'd hope to approach it in an open and honest manner, so that everyone knows exactly why I'm doing it.

Good luck!

W

[SnowwwWhite]

Great thread. I think there are going to be a lot of people on here supporting you. I was also brought up very religious (in a Southern state no less). I started to recognize the hypocrisy and hate of the church when I was a teen. My parents were "highly involved" in the church and I overheard much more than I needed to know about church members' personal lives. Talk about unnecessary drama! I also remember being about nine years old and hearing my grandmother commenting to my mother about how she saw a bottle of wine in a church member's grocery basket at the store. They thought it was scandalous!

As I grew older it became more evident that many people in the church have forgotten why they're there and are feeding a massive "social order" complete with cliques and gossip networks. Not to mention developing a judgmental personality is cause for respect and reward. I maintained my belief in God due primarily to being "brainwashed," until I broke free of the influence and began to exercise my scientific inclinations and study of cosmology, physics, etc.

Today, I am truly embarrassed that I went 17 years of my life believing that there is a spiritual entity that created a "flawed creature" and then conveniently structured laws to punish this creature and demand that it act against the nature in which it was created. And expects the creature to reject logic, even while the existence of its planet is a result of logical, sequential, explainable occurrences. I feel today's belief in God is no different from the Sumerians believing the Sun and Moon were spiritual beings. Throughout time, man's perception of God has evolved along with knowledge and learning. It's only a matter of time before modern science forces humanity to accept reality (or create a new version of God). The theory of evolution has already begun to bring this awakening into motion. Although a lot of people, my family included, are kicking and screaming against it.

Looking back I really feel pretty stupid for buying into religion, but I forgive myself when I realize that I had been brainwashed from a very young age. I was brought up shielded from the "real world" and my parents probably just expected me to grow up and be a preacher's wife someday. Funny thing, we were always taught how other religions were cults. I'm sorry to say, but if you compare practices and beliefs it's obvious that Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Catholics, etc. are no different from Jehovah's Witnesses or Scientology. If your mind is being indoctrinated to reject science, to follow obscure laws and teachings, and to believe you're going to heaven and everyone who doesn't believe your version is going to hell... IT'S A CULT!

It's still hard to get past some of the conditioning. I guess in some ways I look at swinging as a way to absolve myself of the judgments I've had about sexuality in the past, which was one of the strongest indoctrinations I experienced. This is not an easy thing, let me tell you. And dealing with the family is something I've chosen to just simply not do. I can't even fathom what would happen if I ever came clean about being an atheist... a word that was maybe one step up the ladder from the word "satan." Religion is so extreme in my family that when I recently told my grandmother about my boyfriend, her first question was "Well, is he a Christian?" Aaaaarrrghghhghhhh!

But it's good to hear the experiences of other people who grew up religious or who had to shake free of ingrained beliefs to find their own way... and have found swinging to be a part of their escape. It makes you realize that you're with people who grew up similar to you and you're not the only former Christian going to hell.

Hopefully at least they'll have swinger's parties there!

[des1re06]

Then I look at the religion which is supposed to be based on his teachings and I see judgment, narrow mindedness, misogyny, greed and the like. I can't help but think "What the f@ck happened?"

Exactly why I haven't been to one in 25 years.

Good luck to you in your transition.

Mrs. D

[olycouple]

Wow...how amazing and stressful for you! I'm not Christian...but, I agree with Julie and many of the others here. I was raised very loosely in the Christian faith. I learned my bible stories like a good middle class child and even went to church on occasion. In my teens, oh those lovely rebellious, identity-seeking years, I decided that, while I WAS spiritual and did believe in a higher power...I couldn't make my beliefs work with Christianity. I had moved to an area of the country where a religious group, I won't name names, taught me the real meaning of hypocracy and discrimination. I also believed in evolution and other scientific issues that made Christianity a "no-go" for me. So, I went on a spiritual shopping trip, so to speak...

I think one can find spiritual happiness that works with everything else in their life. Spirituality and faith should be supports for you, not something that makes you feel guilty or weak or wrong. If your faith does that, then it's broken and either needs to be exchanged, returned, or thrown away.

Good luck with your path. I applaud your courage. And thanks for sharing.

Mrs. O

[Alura]

Jesus was a way-cool dude! It's his fan club that puts me off.

In my opinion, Christianity took a turn away from Jesus' teachings when Saul of Tarsus became an influence and started writing his letters of fear and loathing to Christian enclaves all over the known world at the time.

It got worse when Constantine made Christianity the official religion of Rome, moved to Constantinople and ordered a group of scribes to assemble the Bible. They, for some reason, relied heavily on Saul's writings, including them in the Bible while leaving out the writings of some who had actually known Jesus.

If one considers the "Bloody Popes" of the Middle Ages, the Spanish Inquisition, (which set the stage for the genocide in Mexico, Central and South America), and the Salem Witch Trials, Christianity has done far more harm than good.

The worst part of the Church's history is that it was done in the name of a man who should, indeed, be called The Prince of Peace.

Congratulations, Cupl4fun, on having thrown off the shackles.

Mr. Alura

[SnakeBabe]

Originally Posted by Alura

Jesus was a way-cool dude! It's his fan club that puts me off....

I'm with you on this one

[SnakeBabe]

Originally Posted by cupl4fun

......
Here's the thing; I hate my job and I hate Christianity. My wife and I are trying to get out. We'll be completely leaving the "Church" as soon as we can. For those of you who are Christian I hope you don't read this and get too offended (I'm not sure how many will actually read this anyway). I know a lot of good christian people who are kind, loving people. but I hate the institution of the church. I hate the religion of christianity.....

I am not sure I fully understand if you’re leaving the faith or if you’re just tired of the Christian church as it is today and/or the one you pastor?

[LFM2]

I'd love to do my best Jim Carrey impersonation from "Liar, Liar" and yell, "The truth shall set you free!"

Congratulations and please don't feel bad for not revealing this before. Like Julie said, you're not the first ex-pastor on this board. I highly doubt you'll be the last.

We also had trouble with our brought-up "faith". We were both raised up VERY strictly in the Catholic church (went to parochial school, mass every Friday and Sunday) and if that doesn't screw up your brain, nothing will, in our humble opinion. We were made to feel guilty about everything we did--good or bad.

We've since smartened up and "broken" away from the church, but, we feel as you do:

I look at Jesus and see a person who would love and accept me as a cussing, sex loving person who desperately wants to help make the world a better place and just love people.

This is so totally different than the fire and brimstone we were raised with. We no longer feel guilty about anything either. One of the best feelings we've had in a long time!

We don't have a problem with justifying our swinging with how we feel regarding our feelings toward Jesus. He was a way-cool dude and we would have loved to know him.

Swingers, for the most part, are very gentle people who don't set out to hurt anyone. We're honest and we love our spouses beyond others wildest imagination. Since we've been swinging, foregoing our religion been a weight that's been lifted from our collective shoulders and we feel more free to live our life like WE want! We're still the same people we were. We still give to charity and we still love our fellow man.

Actually, Mr. Alura hit the nail on the head. (He is one smart guy, ya know?) I'm just a little (little? Yeah, right!) opinionated though, so I had to throw in my $.02 as well.

Holly

[Alura]

LFM2 wrote:

Actually, Mr. Alura hit the nail on the head. (He is one smart guy, ya know?)

Thank you! I'm honored to accept such a kind compliment!

Mr. Alura

[cupl4fun]

"I am not sure I fully understand if you’re leaving the faith or if you’re just tired of the Christian church as it is today and/or the one you pastor?"

I'm mostly leaving the church as it is today. I haven't lost my faith so to speak.
I'm just "losing my religion." I reject most of the Church's (as a whole) doctrines and teachings. Hmmm, not sure what else to say.