Rock and a hard place

[prettylady]

Hey guys,
I know my story is going to be a bit hard to follow, but I need to vent and you guys are the most supportive I know.

Here's the thing.
I have been doing karate for almost 7 years now. I have been with the same Sensei from the beginning. He is great in many ways and a major @ss in many others.
Above my Sensei is my Shihan, who is head instructor of our style of karate. He too is great, but with out all the down falls of my Sensei.

I have so much more to learn from Shihan then I do Sensei. Where Sensei will put my teachings on hold from time to time to keep me from getting to far ahead, Shihan will teach me anything I wish to learn.

My Sensei tried to discourage me from getting my second degree because I would be too close in ranking to him, and that treatened him somewhat. (he is currently preparing for his 4th)

I have been thinking of leaving my Sensei for sometime now and training with Shihan only, but Sensei has been like an uncle to me for so long it is hard to choose between my loyalty to the man who has taken an intrest in my life and not karate, or a man who is keenly intrested in my karate, and to a lesser extent my life.
I want to learn and advance, the only way to do that is to go to Shihan. But I know by doing that I am going to loose my friend and Sensei.

Did ANYONE follow that turmoil?

Thanks for listening
Your friend,
Prettylady

[Alura]

I think you must decide which you need more, Pretty... an instructor who can take you closer to your goals or one who will take more interest in your personal life.

An instructor who would hold back a student, no matter the curriculum, for his own benefit is not to be completely trusted.

Mr. Alura

[Dynamar]

What's that saying?... "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear." I assume that Shihan is willing and able to take you on as a student, and if that is the case, I think perhaps you've already really answered your own question.

All the best,

[VegasLee]

prettylady,

Maybe I am looking at this to simply but have you talked to your Sensei as a true friend and told him the same things you have told us here?

Might need to just open his eyes to what you believe is happening here. If he is a real friend he will understand and over come and lead you the direction you need and desire to go.

[JustAskJulie]

I think Lee is thinking along the same Lines I am. If your Sinsei is really interested in you personally then he will want to see you grow (whether with him or elsewhere). If he is only interested in you to the extent that you benefit him, then he's not truely your friend (or uncle) and you aren't really turning on him, just doing what is best for you.

[Edison Carter]

Ed here-- A few years ago, one of my staff who I had mentored fresh out of college asked me to meet with him. He was the very best staffer I ever had. We met for dinner and he starts trying to explain that he's had this great job offer, but he can barely get the words out as he's in tears. He felt he was betraying me.

I looked and asked him to describe the offer. It was great and in a completely different field and he had to go and try it. I replied," What are you doing here ? You need to go and take this. If it doesn't work out, you have a home here, always."

The best teacher knows he's going to let every student go. It's a matter of time and it's not a bad thing, it's part of a great thing called life and growth.

[Drkknight]

You need to go with the Shihan. I've been in the arts for most of my adult life and I had a great time learning because my sensei kept learning. If he is stuck and you need a more "aware" and experienced person to guide you then go for it. Don't hold yourself back. Hopefully, this is acceptable in your art. I study Aikido and we train with other people in our art to get a different feel for certain techniques. Don't get me wrong, my sensei continues to grow and so do I.

[cocpl2007]

Yes, follow your tale pretty well.

We experienced a similar issue within Scuba diving. We were in the Dive Master certification program, which is the level just below Instructor. It is a program that takes several months and several dozen dives and exercises to complete. Lots of book work, practical exercises and on-the-job (Internship) training.

Our Dive Shop had three excellent Instructors, and one (who just happened to own the place) who is a personality challenge for me. We were about 2 months into our 6 month program. Finally I approached her directly about our inability to communicate with each other, and agreed to continue the program if any one of the THREE available excellent Instructors would be in-charge of my program. She agreed. HOWEVER, the very next session, it was 100% Mrs. Personality. So we quit.

We were able to head down the street (we were living in the Caribbean at the time) to another Dive Shop. And based upon the relationship we had established with the previous Shops three Instructors we were able to salvage all our prior examinations and Dive Master work, and pick right up with the program. We had a excellent time, learned lots and achieved our Dive Master certifications without any future problems.

Now having said that, it seems that moving on to the Shihan seems like the natural progression of your training anyway... so just hurry-it-up a bit, and move on.

So are you a take-down artist? :-)

[BiloxiCouple]

With change comes knowledge.

[SnowwwWhite]

Out of respect for your sensei who has been training you for seven years, you need to directly tell him how you feel and what your goals are and ask how he best sees those goals being achieved. He may surprise you with a wise reason why he is managing your advancement and it may have nothing to do with jealousy.

Is it possible he sees impatience in you? Or that you haven't let go of self? I know that in the martial arts the mental and spiritual aspects are even more important than the physical training, and it's possible he's holding back your training in an effort to mold you into a student that will have greater advancement potential in the future. It may not be his desire to hold you back to "keep you down," but actually to lift you up. Having seven years in martial arts I'm sure you know what I mean. You also say that you feel the "only way" for you to learn is to work with your shihan. I would never expect to hear that sort of dogmatic thinking from a high-level martial artist. With your sensei being two full levels above you (which is a lot in the martial arts), I find it hard to believe you can't continue to learn from him. But it seems you have made up your mind. Maybe there is something he sees in you mentally or spiritually that needs to be managed before you advance.

Also, I think integrity is far more valuable a trait than anything you can learn on the mat. Ultimately that's the whole point of martial arts. You owe it to your sensei and you owe it to yourself to demonstrate integrity in this situation. Talk to him with an open heart and listen to him. It sounds like he honestly cares for you. It would be devastating to him and probably crippling to his future students if he was to have someone he put so much effort into "betray" him, not to mention it would be a loss to you to lose a mentor.

Also, while the shihan enjoys having an enthusiastic student, he will not be blind to how you disrespected your sensei. With all your effort and passion for karate do you want a dishonor hanging over your head?

Hope this helps!

[prettylady]

Thanks everyone
The answer is clear as day, but doing what I know I have to do if I want to continue to grow and compete is soo very hard.
Well I'm off to karate, wish me luck.
Your friend,
Prettylady

[olycouple]

Originally Posted by prettylady

Thanks everyone
The answer is clear as day, but doing what I know I have to do if I want to continue to grow and compete is soo very hard.
Well I'm off to karate, wish me luck.
Your friend,
Prettylady

And how did it go, or has it gone yet?

I really feel for you, after serving a long apprenticeship and earning pieces of paper that label me a "Master" at what I do, I am in the process of retraining to change careers. When it finally comes time to "give notice" it is really going to be a gut wrenching task and quite possibly overwhelming emotionally (I am not an outwardly emotional person, I am the stoic type).
I feel a constant indebtedness to the person whom I served my apprenticeship under and who gave me the break to get started as a know-nothing kid. Over the past decade he has become part of my family and a very close friend. I however, must continue to improve and challenge myself as stagnation and complacency of any type will ruin me.
My thoughts are with you.

Mr. Oly

[prettylady]

I spoke to my Sensei and Shihan.
I will keep teaching at my old school with Sensei, but my training will take place with Shihan.
It was a rough few days after to spoke to Sensei, but he found out fast that his school would miss me dearly. I am the only black belt there, besides him, who can teach the second degrees their forms. Not to mention I am everyones favorit black belt.
As one of my adult students put it. I make workouts so much fun you don't know you worked hard until you wake up the next morning unable to move.
I am sneaky about the pain I thrust upon my unsupecting students.
So I feel good about what happened, I just hope it will stay the way it was arranged and Sensei's pride doesn't cause this all to come crumbling down around us.
But I am looking at the possitive.
Thanks again everyone.
Your friend,
Prettylady

[fun4Ds]

Good choice PrettyLady. Now you showed many people in your class how you achieve your goals