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Elusive BiFem · 11-24-2003, 10:31 AM

quote:
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Originally posted by Elusive BiFem
I'll answer later - after a nap! And thanks for taking the time to respond and give much more info than the quick answers on chat.
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Wow! What a nap! Almost 24 hours - literally. But it felt good.

Moving right along...Mr. hmr was feeling as if he was being taken to task following last Thursday nights chat in which the topic was swinging with newbies - would you or not, and if not, why not, etc. The discussion somewhat centered on the fact that some people enter swinging with no idea of what it is about, the rules of the game, etc. hmr indicated they had just jumped right in with esentially no preliminary research. I found this to be amazing and later posted this thread.

If anything, this thread was prompted by my feeling that I needed to take myself to task. I sincerely believed that everyone even considering swinging would "research" the subject thoroughly. I was thinking, erroneously, of the availability of information on the internet. It was pointed out that for some, swinging began long before the advent of the internet and there really wasn't much information available other than in certain magazines, etc., (which I have never seen). Also, it was mentioned that not everyone had access to a computer. Another thing I had not thought of. To bolster my position, I made some off the wall comment about "everyone" has access to a computer, but really, thinking of it, it has only been in recent years that that statement would hold true. Even I didn't have a home computer until '98 and then, not until '00 did I have one with enough power/speed to really "research." The old 75 Pentium's just didn't pull up those sites too easily.

hmr made this statement:

quote:
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Now, not knowing that any thing like this existed, how were we to know to find it? I was even a reader of "Penthouse letters" which discusses many of the aspects of swinging, But never said anything about swingers groups.
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...and it makes a lot of sense when I think of it. He is right. If you don't know something exists, you don't know to look for it, and certainly, you don't know the words to use to "research" the topic.

Another comment...
quote:
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Now, does this make us foolsand/or ignorant? Fine if it does, because we were comfortable with it and had each other for backup. In fact after being on this board and seeing the way some people won't play with newbies and some newbies get flamed, had we done all this research, I'm not sure if we would be swinging at all yet.
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I find that interesting, as I have wondered myself, something similar. When I first started researching, I read a bunch of stuff, found a couple with mutual compatibility, and moved forward from there. We were both "newbies," save for my single experience 20 years prior with a couple that were my best friends. However, there was no discussion of rules, boundaries, etc., other than just general discussion. Looking back, I honestly wonder if I had seen this board and many of the post, if I would have pursued this interest. After all, I didn't have a check list of sorts...with all these rules and boundaries and likes and dislikes. Maybe the 3 of us were simply lucky that things worked out so well. In other posts, I have alluded to the fact that for me, much of this seems so "clinical" and contrived when one has to go through so many steps...have we communicated enough with each other? have we communicated enough with the partner(s)? have we established rules? what are their rules? boundaries?....the list just goes on and on. And I believe I have stated in the past...this should be fun and not work. If I haven't, there is the statement. The other thing I beieve I've previously mentioned is my thought that all of these rules and boundaries are subject to change with time as one becomes more comfortable and familiar with their environment. Advice is constantly given...stick to your rules...well, maybe for that particular occasion. But what about going home and reassessing your rules and boundaries as you feel more comfortable? Isn't that important, too? And really, do we ever say that? Rarely. hmr's comment fits right here:
quote:
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Again, though, we did not know all the questions to ask.
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A very true statement...until you have the experiences, you don't know what to ask or what to even think of.

Another very valid comment by hmr...
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Yes. Are we "guilty" of going in blind. I guess you could say we did. However there is a lot to be said for not overanalyzing things to the point of not doing anything. In the navy we called it analysis paralysis- you analyze so much, you never do anything.
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The point of the entire chat was would you play with newbies because. Some felt no...due to bad experiences, they don't have their boundaries, etc., in place...that type of stuff. I had initially said I had no problem with it, but as the chat continued, I did...under the premise that new people would know and be comfortable with what they wanted. Now I've come full circle...having thought of it and given the time to put things in perspective.

So in a sense, after reading what he had to say, I feel that I have to agree with him (them) that maybe some of us tend to go a bit too far with this rule/boundary/signal stuff in our quest to experience the thrills of swinging. For me, at least, maybe the best way is to proceed exactly the way I did initially and that is by meeting someone, getting to know them, talking about lots of different things including but not limited to swinging. Simply liking the people. Common interests and values. The attitude that if the sexual part works - great! If not, the worst that can happen is that I have met friends along the way. So yes, I would have nary a problem with newbies, but would approach it exactly like I just stated.

Again, Mr. hmr...you were not taken to task. If anything, I was. But isn't that supposed to be the good thing about discussion...learning new things about others and ourselves?

- EBF

11-24-2003, 10:31 AM	#18 (permalink)
Elusive BiFem Active Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,400 Location: Texas Status: Single Female	quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Elusive BiFem I'll answer later - after a nap! And thanks for taking the time to respond and give much more info than the quick answers on chat. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wow! What a nap! Almost 24 hours - literally. But it felt good. Moving right along...Mr. hmr was feeling as if he was being taken to task following last Thursday nights chat in which the topic was swinging with newbies - would you or not, and if not, why not, etc. The discussion somewhat centered on the fact that some people enter swinging with no idea of what it is about, the rules of the game, etc. hmr indicated they had just jumped right in with esentially no preliminary research. I found this to be amazing and later posted this thread. If anything, this thread was prompted by my feeling that I needed to take myself to task. I sincerely believed that everyone even considering swinging would "research" the subject thoroughly. I was thinking, erroneously, of the availability of information on the internet. It was pointed out that for some, swinging began long before the advent of the internet and there really wasn't much information available other than in certain magazines, etc., (which I have never seen). Also, it was mentioned that not everyone had access to a computer. Another thing I had not thought of. To bolster my position, I made some off the wall comment about "everyone" has access to a computer, but really, thinking of it, it has only been in recent years that that statement would hold true. Even I didn't have a home computer until '98 and then, not until '00 did I have one with enough power/speed to really "research." The old 75 Pentium's just didn't pull up those sites too easily. hmr made this statement: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now, not knowing that any thing like this existed, how were we to know to find it? I was even a reader of "Penthouse letters" which discusses many of the aspects of swinging, But never said anything about swingers groups. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...and it makes a lot of sense when I think of it. He is right. If you don't know something exists, you don't know to look for it, and certainly, you don't know the words to use to "research" the topic. Another comment... quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now, does this make us foolsand/or ignorant? Fine if it does, because we were comfortable with it and had each other for backup. In fact after being on this board and seeing the way some people won't play with newbies and some newbies get flamed, had we done all this research, I'm not sure if we would be swinging at all yet. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I find that interesting, as I have wondered myself, something similar. When I first started researching, I read a bunch of stuff, found a couple with mutual compatibility, and moved forward from there. We were both "newbies," save for my single experience 20 years prior with a couple that were my best friends. However, there was no discussion of rules, boundaries, etc., other than just general discussion. Looking back, I honestly wonder if I had seen this board and many of the post, if I would have pursued this interest. After all, I didn't have a check list of sorts...with all these rules and boundaries and likes and dislikes. Maybe the 3 of us were simply lucky that things worked out so well. In other posts, I have alluded to the fact that for me, much of this seems so "clinical" and contrived when one has to go through so many steps...have we communicated enough with each other? have we communicated enough with the partner(s)? have we established rules? what are their rules? boundaries?....the list just goes on and on. And I believe I have stated in the past...this should be fun and not work. If I haven't, there is the statement. The other thing I beieve I've previously mentioned is my thought that all of these rules and boundaries are subject to change with time as one becomes more comfortable and familiar with their environment. Advice is constantly given...stick to your rules...well, maybe for that particular occasion. But what about going home and reassessing your rules and boundaries as you feel more comfortable? Isn't that important, too? And really, do we ever say that? Rarely. hmr's comment fits right here: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again, though, we did not know all the questions to ask. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A very true statement...until you have the experiences, you don't know what to ask or what to even think of. Another very valid comment by hmr... quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes. Are we "guilty" of going in blind. I guess you could say we did. However there is a lot to be said for not overanalyzing things to the point of not doing anything. In the navy we called it analysis paralysis- you analyze so much, you never do anything. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The point of the entire chat was would you play with newbies because. Some felt no...due to bad experiences, they don't have their boundaries, etc., in place...that type of stuff. I had initially said I had no problem with it, but as the chat continued, I did...under the premise that new people would know and be comfortable with what they wanted. Now I've come full circle...having thought of it and given the time to put things in perspective. So in a sense, after reading what he had to say, I feel that I have to agree with him (them) that maybe some of us tend to go a bit too far with this rule/boundary/signal stuff in our quest to experience the thrills of swinging. For me, at least, maybe the best way is to proceed exactly the way I did initially and that is by meeting someone, getting to know them, talking about lots of different things including but not limited to swinging. Simply liking the people. Common interests and values. The attitude that if the sexual part works - great! If not, the worst that can happen is that I have met friends along the way. So yes, I would have nary a problem with newbies, but would approach it exactly like I just stated. Again, Mr. hmr...you were not taken to task. If anything, I was. But isn't that supposed to be the good thing about discussion...learning new things about others and ourselves? - EBF