[slevin]

Originally Posted by isikar

Overall, the conversation went very well. I didn't pop it out of the blue but segued into a conversation we were having about fantasies. She has know for some time that I fantasize about a threesome and it OK with it, so I mentioned that it was not that far a jump from threesome to foursome to moresome.

For future reference, escalating quickly from introducing the idea of swinging to her through to talking about 'moresomes' is probably a bit quick. All depends on how you talk about it, but one thing at a time is probably better

She did not object to the idea but I think she has trouble with the transition from fantasy to reality. She stated that she could see swinging in "some exotic location" but had a difficult time visualizing swinging here (Mississippi).

Some good summaries of likely causes of her perspective here, but I think you are missing the real reason she's feeling like a spontaneous fling on vacation is ok and actively seeking out people at home is less comfortable. For a lot of women the idea of something that "just happened", especially when she is far away from home, allows her to absolve herself of responsibility for what happened. She wants to do it, but mentally can't make herself ok with allowing herself to do it. So she'll prefer a situation where she can say something like: "well, we were on vacation, had a few drinks and I don't know what came over me...../it just happened/, that isn't me, it was just some crazy vacation experience". She is allowing the experience to happen without threatening her internal viewpoint of who she is.

Dealing with getting to a place where she is comfortable with who she is and will allow herself to experience her desires and know that she is still the same awesome women; still the respected wife/mother, still a good person, still a religious woman, still loved by her friends and family etc. That is the important part. Without her getting to that place there is likely always going to be drama and fallout from pursuing swinging.

I tried to paint the image that I fantasize about, which is having a couple or couples that we can be friend with outside of swinging but also enjoy playing with as well. Normal people like us with jobs and kids and flaws, but I don't think I sold it well.

You painted your fantasy; did you explore her fantasies? And not a directed "lets talk about your swinging fantasies" kind of discussion, just purely getting into what her fantasies might be. You say that until recently she was very reserved, so maybe she hasn't let herself fantasize before; what better time than now to start opening that up slowly! Allowing her to develop whatever fantasies she will come up with whether they are swinging related or dressing up like Minnie Mouse.

Her other objection was that she wanted a man who thinks she is the only women in the world for him, and the idea that her man could contemplate having sex with another women was distressing. I handled it this way: I stated that she was the one I loved and adored, that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her, but that variety is good: I love a Ruth Chris Fillet Mignon, but I don't want one every night. Some times I want a hamburger. She grasped the analogy and stated that she wanted to expand our menu by added some light bondage, rougher sex, roll playing, etc.

Being frank I think you fucked up here and set things back a few paces. She was warming up to the idea and was expressing her true fear to you that she's not enough for you. Your response was that you love her, but sometimes she just isn't enough for you.

Ouch.

I know it isn't what you meant and that probably isn't how you interpreted what she was trying to tell you, but I wholeheartedly think that was what she meant (based on the tiny fraction of information I have available here!).

You know why I'm interested in swinging with my wife? It isn't because I want some variety in who I have sex with (though that is nice too). It's because I enjoy exploring that variety /with her/. Now, I probably just gave you a magic word there to help her start to overcome that initial hesitance at sharing her man, but my purpose in saying it was to try and get you to stop and think about your own motivations for doing this. Are you bored fucking your wife and purely want to fuck someone else? Or do you want to explore the idea of swinging with her; seeing her pleasure etc.? Not asking the question to you directly here; that is more something for you to ponder introspectively.

In the end, my impression is that swinging is not off the table as a possibility, but I am going to have to tread carefully. I think that both these objections can be dealt with, but for now, I've put the issue of swinging on the back burner and am concentration of fulfilling her desire for expanded sex.

I think your best bet is to stop thinking about this as a sales job and stop thinking about her viewpoint and feelings as objectives. She is your wife, you are a team and you should start approaching this as a team. They aren't objections, they are how she feels. Help her work through them and come to whatever conclusion she arrives at, whether that is trying swinging or not. She does have the right approach though, as I mentioned in my other post; stop thinking about swinging at all and start thinking about improving your sex life just between the two of you. Build yourselves a sex life that fulfills you so that swinging is just another fun thing you do in an already incredible sex life. Don't try and make swinging the thing that puts the spark back in your sex life.

I am still a bit concerned that deep down you have decided you want to swing no matter what. That if she says no and means it you will still be focusing on trying to make her do it with you; that potentially you'll do it anyway even if she's not involved. I hope I'm wrong and that it's just your overzealous salemen personality peeking through. I just hope you didn't do a sales job on me telling me what I wanted to hear so I'd expand on my perspective of your situation

One last opinion; you mentioned that both you and your wife think logically and work through decisions like that. I am sure she can be very logical, but in my experience there is a big difference between men and women in this area. Men are primarily logical reasoners who can also be emotional; women are primarily emotional reasoners who are also logical. This isn't to say that women are always emotional in a negative connotation, just that in their reasoning it is often their emotional thinking that takes charge. In a situation like sex and relationships that is even more true, in my experience, due to the highly emotional aspect of what is involved. So, while she may logically reason her head into something around swinging, I believe you are still going to have to deal with having her emotional reasoning come to the same conclusion.

Hope this was useful and gave some food for thought. I also hope I didn't offend any women with that last paragraph lol, totally not my intention and I can expand on it a bit further if I irked anyone with that opinion. As I said, it's not meant as emotional in a negative way.