[mystic]

Chicup, I appreciate your comments. I really do. But I'm not sure where I gave the impression that I didn't know how attraction worked though. When I was referring to showing value, I wasn't talking about bragging and hitting on her overtly. I'm well aware of that. The reason I think saying a women is beautiful or complimenting her shoes is bad is because it telegraphs interest before she's interested in you, so the challenge to her is gone. In fact, showing an aloof disinterest in her is probably better.

When I say showing value, I'm merely saying that you are behaving in a way that women find attractive - the leader, the quick thinker, the protector, the warm smile with a true sense of humour, acting with confidence, possessing high character, well groomed (but not necessary hot in anyway), independent, thrill-seeker, and all the other things I said earlier.

Yes, there are women who have said otherwise, but I still don't believe them because even in my isolated life, I've observed this to be true. Yes, if a hot guy or a high status guy says some generic line, it's not going to matter because the built-in social status conveys more than the words themselves. In fact, if the guy has such a high social status placed on him, he could even insult the women and create attraction because the women would just want approval from him. When it comes to hot guys, they can't do this alone, because then they'd just appear to be impossible unless the women was equally as hot. In many cases, it's better for the hotter guy to shut the hell up. It's clear the women isn't interested in what he has to say, and often he'll blow it.

I guarentee that if I had gorgeous women locked into each of my arms as I walked across the room and said "hey, what's up?" to a third women, I'd probably get instant attraction from her - it's called pre-selection. But if I was sitting alone, I wouldn't for sure.

I'm aware of playful flirting, negs, cocky and funny attitudes, showing dominance, baiting and releasing, kino-escalation and all this other stuff. At an intellectual level, I probably know more than everyone here, if only because I read 50 or 60 books on the subject, researched people who are actually quite an artist with sort of thing and have mapped it down to a science, because it can be - it is hardcoded in us as you said. Women would definately not want to admit it, but they all have the same attraction switches, regardless if they like it or admit it. And of course, there are techniques for calibrating to different kinds of women, like throwing more negs at very attractive women and complimenting more to unattractive/insecure women.

But the big underlying thing is that these require good social skills to weave them in. I'm just learning to say "hi" and strike up a conversation that lasts longer than 2 minutes with somebody - anybody. One of the few conversations that lasted longer was with a women who was 50 years old on the bus, and she practically lead the entire thing. I recall not knowing what to say and looked around a lot, but she kept talking anyway. I'm just learning to make real friends too, and that's been equally challenging. I can't focus on these techniques, voice tone, body language and all these other things while I'm trying to basic conversation skills. It's just too damn hard.

I'm just going to have to keep trying.