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Paphian · 12-13-2005, 02:59 AM

Damn. That was one long thread.

It's really too, too bad that this sort of discussion doesn't come up in sex-ed or other sorts of classes on a regular basis long before most people get married for the first time. Might save a lot of pain (and money!).

It seems that many that cheat can't conceive of (or can't approach with their spouse) the idea of playing together, or swinging in general, without the preconceived idea that it is cheating--just not being called as such. So, they figure, what's the problem with a little extra-marital sex? There's a whole bunch of people saying that they do it all the time--swingers!

The problem is, it isn't the sex that's the real issue. The real issue is lying and the betrayal of trust.

And therein lies the reason most folks who do swing are so down on cheating, methinks. Trust has everything to do with being able to swing together as a couple and stay together as a couple. Why, if a couple has gone through the effort of building enough trust to start swinging, would most couples want to include someone who hasn't made that effort? Apart from the potential for major drama (and trauma), the sort of attitude that cheating implies simply doesn't mesh well with the sort mindset that most swinging couples have about swinging.

I think what a lot of people misbelieve about swingers is that they're "easy". It seems to be a general conception: that since swinging folks have sex with more than just their spouse/SO, they must not have any moral values at all, and just want to fuck anyone who happens along. And if they have no morals about that, then they obviously won't care if someone's cheating. So the people who are cheating look at swingers, figuring that there's an easy situation: swinging folks won't tell their spouse they're cheating, won't do something uncomfortable like show up at their front door uninvited, etc. After all, they just want to fuck, right? The thing is, that's dead wrong.

And the problem is... that doesn't change the basic situation: if you're cheating, you're being extremely dishonest with the very person about whom you claim to care most. And worse, IMNSHO, you've stolen something--something you had no right to at all: your SO's ability to make an informed choice for him- or herself. (They put medical and legal people in jail for stuff like failing to get informed consent--it's that important.)

And that, to me (and it appears, to many others here as well) is the major portion of the issue. Because it inevitably leads to questions, stated or not, like: "What else is a cheating spouse lying about?" "Does he (she) love her (him) more than me?" "Does he (she) respect me at all?" And that's without beginning to think of the questions the swingers involved are gonna start thinking about...

It's all down hill (like, from 5000 feet without benefit of a 'chute) from there. The only questions are how large the crater is gonna be, and how much 'collateral damage' will occur.

So the thing is... if you're cheating, you really don't fit into most swingers' concept of what swinging is--you're not really a swinger, by most swingers' self-definition. And you don't fit into monogamous folks' idea of monogamy, either--cause you're not a faithful spouse by their self-definition. Is it any wonder that neither group usually wants to give a cheater the time of day?

On the other hand, if everyone involved in the relationship knows what's going on, no one is being cheated on. Whether you're open to separate play, couples-only play, polyamory, or any of a host of other possibilities, the crucial difference is that no one is lying. So... no betrayal of trust, as the rules are mutually agreed upon. There was informed consent.

People who make truly open relationships (from swinging to polyamory, and everything else in between) work deserve a lot of respect. It isn't easy (in fact, I'd say--from personal experience--that it's more difficult than faithful monogamy). It requires lots of communication and trust--just the very thing that people who are cheating cannot bring to the table and, it seems to me--the root cause of swingers being so down on cheating.

12-13-2005, 02:59 AM	#68 (permalink)
Paphian Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 171 Location: CA Status: Single Male	Re: The Single Male who is Married Damn. That was one long thread. It's really too, too bad that this sort of discussion doesn't come up in sex-ed or other sorts of classes on a regular basis long before most people get married for the first time. Might save a lot of pain (and money!). It seems that many that cheat can't conceive of (or can't approach with their spouse) the idea of playing together, or swinging in general, without the preconceived idea that it is cheating--just not being called as such. So, they figure, what's the problem with a little extra-marital sex? There's a whole bunch of people saying that they do it all the time--swingers! The problem is, it isn't the sex that's the real issue. The real issue is lying and the betrayal of trust. And therein lies the reason most folks who do swing are so down on cheating, methinks. Trust has everything to do with being able to swing together as a couple and stay together as a couple. Why, if a couple has gone through the effort of building enough trust to start swinging, would most couples want to include someone who hasn't made that effort? Apart from the potential for major drama (and trauma), the sort of attitude that cheating implies simply doesn't mesh well with the sort mindset that most swinging couples have about swinging. I think what a lot of people misbelieve about swingers is that they're "easy". It seems to be a general conception: that since swinging folks have sex with more than just their spouse/SO, they must not have any moral values at all, and just want to fuck anyone who happens along. And if they have no morals about that, then they obviously won't care if someone's cheating. So the people who are cheating look at swingers, figuring that there's an easy situation: swinging folks won't tell their spouse they're cheating, won't do something uncomfortable like show up at their front door uninvited, etc. After all, they just want to fuck, right? The thing is, that's dead wrong. And the problem is... that doesn't change the basic situation: if you're cheating, you're being extremely dishonest with the very person about whom you claim to care most. And worse, IMNSHO, you've stolen something--something you had no right to at all: your SO's ability to make an informed choice for him- or herself. (They put medical and legal people in jail for stuff like failing to get informed consent--it's that important.) And that, to me (and it appears, to many others here as well) is the major portion of the issue. Because it inevitably leads to questions, stated or not, like: "What else is a cheating spouse lying about?" "Does he (she) love her (him) more than me?" "Does he (she) respect me at all?" And that's without beginning to think of the questions the swingers involved are gonna start thinking about... It's all down hill (like, from 5000 feet without benefit of a 'chute) from there. The only questions are how large the crater is gonna be, and how much 'collateral damage' will occur. So the thing is... if you're cheating, you really don't fit into most swingers' concept of what swinging is--you're not really a swinger, by most swingers' self-definition. And you don't fit into monogamous folks' idea of monogamy, either--cause you're not a faithful spouse by their self-definition. Is it any wonder that neither group usually wants to give a cheater the time of day? On the other hand, if everyone involved in the relationship knows what's going on, no one is being cheated on. Whether you're open to separate play, couples-only play, polyamory, or any of a host of other possibilities, the crucial difference is that no one is lying. So... no betrayal of trust, as the rules are mutually agreed upon. There was informed consent. People who make truly open relationships (from swinging to polyamory, and everything else in between) work deserve a lot of respect. It isn't easy (in fact, I'd say--from personal experience--that it's more difficult than faithful monogamy). It requires lots of communication and trust--just the very thing that people who are cheating cannot bring to the table and, it seems to me--the root cause of swingers being so down on cheating.