Is swinging really worth giving up the chance of a vanilla relationship?

During our live chat Thursday night we discussed singles and swinging and one of the questions that came up was what do singles give up in order to swing.

The main comment to this question was how hard it is for single swingers to enjoy "straight" relationships because they have to tell potential partners about their swinging experience and interest. Basically, making it feel as if you have to choose one world or the other.

Is it possible to have both?

Why is swinging worth giving up the ease of having a "straight" relationship?

I copied this from a website a couple of years ago and just found it the other day. I don't know the link or even what it was about but thought is would go well with this topic. I offer no comment because I am married and can't relate.

I am a 38 year old, divorced (since 27), no children, single guy. I am on the SWAT team for a major police department but spent a few years in the Marines in my youth. I was once an amateur body builder, and continue to stay in shape, maintaining a 33” waist, 48” chest, 19” arms, and about 10% body fat.

 

One night about 7 years ago, after a particularly stressful day my team along with some support members, including a very attractive widowed 42 year old hostage negotiator (call her C) went out for drinks. One thing led to another and I ended up taking C home and spent the night. To make a long story a little shorter we ended up becoming “booty buddies” and would hook up a couple of times a week after work to “blow off some steam”. After a few months we got involved in swinging, something she did before she lost her husband. Over the next three years we attended some type of swinging event almost every other weekend, visited Hedo II and III (nudist/swinger resorts in Jamaica), and became involved with a group of about 50 couples that hosted “house parties” and weekend getaways. During that time I enjoyed the attentions of many different women and experienced a world I had no idea existed. During that time I acquired a reputation for intelligent conversation and as a competent lover.

 

Three years ago C retired to her ranch out west and I was asked to continue to be a member of the group as single male. There were only two other singles involved both started when they were married both older, one widowed and the other divorced. Due to my work schedule it is very difficult to meet partners and since I had had such a great time I agreed. For the last three years I have attended at least one event every month, vacationed with an older couple in Mexico, been offered as a birthday present, was given an unbelievable birthday present by 8 of the women, participated in fantasy “gang bangs”, and one “bukkake”.

 

The problem

All of this sounds great and wonderful except that I am almost 40 and have not had an emotional bonding relationship in 10 years. Every time I start to date in the real world I find myself questioning if I can stay with one woman the rest of my life. After the things I have done I am afraid that I will get bored and usually break off any potential relationship soon after it starts (I will NOT cheat). Twice I have told dates about my past and they both ended it immediately. Can counseling help me overcome my desires or am I doomed to growing old alone.

It is tough to live in two worlds. I have developed a sympathy for spies and mafiaoso. Some singles choose either the swinging or non swinging world. I choose both. I date single non swinging women, but can't let them get too close as they start wondering where the Hell I was last Friday night. You go out of town for 2 or 3 days and when people ask "Where ya going?" You respond very carefully, keeping it simple and short so it isn't difficult to remember. You have separate email accounts. You have some numbers on your cell hidden. You don't ever write anything down. These are no different than what couples do, I imagine.

I have stopped asking women I am seeing what they think about swinging. If I meet one that swings outside of a swinging situation, at this point, I think I will just know if she does or not and then will work it into a conversation. Could I stay faithful to a woman I love? Without a doubt, When I love someone, I love them heart and soul. Would I miss swinging if I wind up in a LTR or marriage to someone who doesn't believe in it? Without a doubt, I would. Kinda tuff to keep them down on the farm after they've seen pariiiis!! But, I would enjoy farming in my old age if necessary. Could I swing with a LT partner? In about a nano second IF the relationship was solid. If I wind up in a long term relationship with a non swinger would I tell her about my swinging? Not if you had me tortured by the commencharos. My pre swinging past was enough to ruin a LTR when she found out. I too was a young amateur body builder and it was in the pre HIV days. It was a different time. Not everybody likes licorice, but those that do, like it a lot. And there is a lot of licorice sold every year. I didn't tell her, someone else did. Another reason for discretion, isn't it? If only swingers know you swing, then if you "retire" they aren't going to tell, are they?? You can have your cake and eat it too, but it ain't easy.

If I meet someone I WANT to be exclusive with, and they feel the same I will. I would take a "leave of absence" from swinging while in the relationship. If it lead to marriage and they didn't want to swing then I would "retire". I would miss it but hey we have all given up more than this for Love, haven't we? If you have never loved like that, then I feel sorry for you.

If I wind up in a long term relationship with a non swinger would I tell her about my swinging? Not if you had me tortured by the commencharos.

But how can your eally build a solid LTR if you aren't honest about your swinging pasts/ current interests? It's a bit of a catch-22.

Thats easy. You tell them you've been involved in a few group sex activities in the past, but its not something that you have to do or that they have to try just because you liked it. I know several women who have been involved in orgies in the not to distant past that freak out when I mention swinging. To them having occasional group sex is an adventure, swinging is a way of life, and one they don't want to be a part of.

An example. Ms. A. is a very good friend of mine, and a V*E*R*Y sexual woman. She was complaining to me one day that the last time she had sex it was painful because it had been so long but she really lusted after the guy and he was a gentlemen. Another time she complained that a guy she was with had a great personality but was lousy in bed. Still another time she joked about a time only a few months ago where she had sex with one guy in the morning, a nooner with a delivery guy she dated in high school in her station wagon on her lunch break, and how she was so wound up she seduced her son's football coach after the school open house because she needed just one more Big O before going on a Girl Scout camping trip for the weekend. When I jokingly asked why didn't she call me, she said it was a spur of the moment thing that day. Well, I thought it would be safe to tell her about the two women I met at the coffee shop that wanted me to go with them to The Meeting Place, a nearby swing club, because they don't allow single men or women and the one woman really wanted her friend to join her and her husband and the owner of the coffee shop said I could be trusted (I wonder if the owner's wife WAS just flirting with me . I didn't go, but only because I had promised the neighbor's kid I'd help him rebuild his computer. Ms. A. stopped, looked at me, and said "I don't see how people can do that, just let their husbands and wives and girlfriends and boyfriends have sex with other people, even if they are friends. You really did that with BW?"

Well, Ms. A. and I are just friends now, even though five minutes before she ad (in this order) stuck her hand down my swimtrunks while play tag in the lake, maneuvered herself so I was rubbing her breasts while I was giving her a back rub, and burried my arm in her chest while we were walking back to her place from the beach. She still invites me to her place to talk, but she literally ran a few times when she complained about her neck being sore and I tried to give her a massage.

Swinging can be a definite deal breaker with many women. A lot of people see nothing with going to sex parties or having group sex...if its a spur of the moment thing. But since swinging is usually planned, they see it as cheapening a relationship by planning to meet others explicitly to have sex either when they meet or sometime in the future. I actually thought Ms. A. would be a potential partner, since we had so much in common and a lot of sexual energy until that moment, but even suggesting that I might want to swing sometime in the future killed what could have been a good relationship.

So, bringing up swinging too soon before a relationship has built a foundation of trust is, to some women, like saying "I only want to be with you because then I can get into swing clubs cheaper" or "I like you, but I really like being with multiple women more, so instead of cheating, I want you to swing with me. That way you can still be with other men, I can be with other women, and we won't feel guilty about it." I really don't know if those thoughts go through women's minds when men mention swinging, but the reactions I got seemed to say that.

 

An example. Ms. A. is a very good friend of mine, and a V*E*R*Y

?? Did you hit send too early?

Yeah. Some computer jockey. LOL

But how can your eally build a solid LTR if you aren't honest about your swinging pasts/ current interests? It's a bit of a catch-22.

It's like ES said. Women understand if they do things like that, but for some reason, swinging is a deal breaker for them. I figure don't ask, don't tell.

I think the difference in ES's example is simply that she is single. Before I was married I had no problem doing pretty much exactly what ES described Ms A doing but the idea of swinging was a huge no-no to me. To me it just seemed like if you were in a relationship then you shouldn't be doing all those things. Obviously, my opinions changed at some point. But I really do think that is what it comes down to. It's one thing to be involved with lots of singles and multiple partners (even at the same time) but when you start putting it in the bounds of marriage, it takes on a completely different status.

What it really comes down to (I think) for most women is that when they are in a relationship they want to know they are in the center of that relationship. So the idea of entering into a relationship with someone who has made it clear that they are up for swinging can be a bit scary because you don't know if you will really be the center of the relationship. I think you just have to find a way to make it clear to her that it is/was an interest and while you've had experiences in the past, you don't have to have that (as long as that's true).

I would imagine that for those who absolutely could not give up swinging, it would be virtually impossible to ever have a one on one relationship.

I think the difference in ES's example is simply that she is single. Before I was married I had no problem doing pretty much exactly what ES described Ms A doing but the idea of swinging was a huge no-no to me. To me it just seemed like if you were in a relationship then you shouldn't be doing all those things. Obviously, my opinions changed at some point. But I really do think that is what it comes down to. It's one thing to be involved with lots of singles and multiple partners (even at the same time) but when you start putting it in the bounds of marriage, it takes on a completely different status.

 

What it really comes down to (I think) for most women is that when they are in a relationship they want to know they are in the center of that relationship. So the idea of entering into a relationship with someone who has made it clear that they are up for swinging can be a bit scary because you don't know if you will really be the center of the relationship. I think you just have to find a way to make it clear to her that it is/was an interest and while you've had experiences in the past, you don't have to have that (as long as that's true).

 

I would imagine that for those who absolutely could not give up swinging, it would be virtually impossible to ever have a one on one relationship.

What you say is true and very sensible, Julie, but what I have encountered is if the female even finds out you have had a lot of partners (subjective term, means much more than them) they don't like it. Edit: (Many women feel like they are use to turning down offers of sex and could continue to do so when married, But, many aren't use to the idea of a male having a lot of different partners and think if women are "after him" that much that he is bound to cheat. At least that is how a couple have explained it to me. I am not saying everybody feels that way, just that there are some out there. )

As for some making a difference between sex between singles and swinging with married people, that can be very true. I know one single female that feels anything and I mean anything is ok, as long as it is between singles. But, if swinging (married people with other partners) is part of the picture she thinks it is a mortal sin.

This IS a big problem for single men who want to swing and want to be in a relationship. For single men, it really is an either or proposition. Either you hide the fact that you swing (or even used to swing) from a woman you want a relationship with until she makes a commitment to you, or you be honest and hope she is that one in a thousand that won't think you're just an extra smooth pervert looking to broaden the number of women you sleep with.

Like Julie said, women want to know they are the center of your world when you get into a relationship. Very few, if any, single women not previously involved in swinging as part of a couple seem willing to take that chance if a man says too soon that he used to swing. Used to could mean last week or ten years ago, but if it is there, its going to bring up doubts and it would be easier to find someone that didn't raise those doubts than take a chance that you are telling the truth when you say "You are more important to me than swinging." Even if its true, it even sounds like a line to me. Thats why we don't bring it up. If thats a lie of omission, then yeah, its a lie. But I also wouldn't tell a woman I like watching Sailor Moon naked while eating butter pecan ice cream out of a waffle cone bowl sitting on my stomach unless she said she did something similar first.

Oh, and swinging is NOT worth giving up a straight relationship. If I married someone that didn't believe in eating red meat, I wouldn't eat red meat so I would not offend her. If DATED someone that didn't believe in swinging, I'd remove myself from the lifestyle until she either decided she wanted to try it or we broke up. Its fun, but its not THAT important. Especially for single men who, seriously, have a harder time finding willing partners (where others seem to have a problem finding compatible partners).

I am a single male and I would one day, perhaps, like to have a more meaningful emotional relationship with a significant other. I guess the problem is that I want to keep the best of both worlds if possible when going into a relationship! Thus, I may have inadvertantly in the past sought out ladies to date that I knew would not work out as a means of subconsciously sabotaging myself so that I can seem to be moving into a normal relationship when I am actually balking at having to make the tough choices! It's amazing the games that we can play with ourselves at times!

As I mature, though, I am finding myself being more honest and open with myself and others. The new wrinkle, however, is that I now find myself gravitating towards women who can fit into the swinging lifestyle! I nearly exclusively date women now who are sexually open, open in their relationships, and bisexual in nature. Am I shortchanging myself, refusing to face the tough decision, or am I doing the right thing to try and fit someone to my life? Hard questions.

The fear is, I think, that you may keep your life a secret and seriously fall in love with someone who may not approve. And in doing so you will have to be dishonest about your past, swing in secret (which is wrong), or give up a lifestyle that you enjoy. Some would say that for love you would have to do so. So, some may avoid the loving realtionship that is an unknown measure to keep the lifestyle that they know and thrive in! The dream is to be open with SO and for the lifestyle to be accepted and embraced (if not participated in) by the SO. Many of you couples are lucky in this regards: you have a loving relationship and commitment, and you can share adventures together. Swinging singles seek this, I think.

I am currently starting what could become a serious relationship. I am worried how to approach this subject. Do I do it at the onset or wait until I am deeper in the relationship were it has the capability of causing emotional pain? I've been hinting at a secret sexual side to myself. And luckily she seems receptive and agreeing. But how do you just come out and say it in the right way? "I had a great time tonight, babe. Oh, I should tell you that I am a swinger!" Complicated stuff! I'm not worried, though - it will work out how it will work out. Just gotta try and be honest with yourself and others in your life. (Hard to do for many secretive swingers). You gotta be caring and tactful as well.

Erotifunguy

Don't keep secrets. Like I said, I thought a woman I was seeing would be receptive to swinging. She wasn't, but I haven't lost a friend. I was surprised when another woman hinted at the fact that she swings several times during one date. She was the last person I would suspect of being a swinger. Then again, most people would say that about me as well.

There are ways to bring swinging up without actually saying "swinging" or "the Lifestyle". When the talk turns to sexual exploits (especially with someone that jokes about it), mention a time you had a threesome with a couple that were friends, or a time when you got invited to a private party and found out people were having sex there, or the time a couple you knew invited you to a swing club and you thought they were kidding...until you got in the parking lot. In every case, you said you were swinging without using the words, and saying you'd like to do it again, for some strange reason, doesn't have the same sting to some women as saying you swing or used to swing. It just sounds like you have an adventurous sex life, and with the right woman, thats a plus. Funny how many of those same women see swinging as a minus.

But thats just my observations on the subject

There's a lot of food for thought in this post. Thanks for all of it. I wonder sometimes why more people who aren't swingers don't read this board just for all of the good advice and information.

There's a lot of food for thought in this post. Thanks for all of it. I wonder sometimes why more people who aren't swingers don't read this board just for all of the good advice and information.

Me! Me! Me! Hand held up... That's me. I'm reading this board as a not quite swinger but not quite against being one kina sorta someday maybe You're so right curiousagain. This is so much more than a board about swinging it's about personal choices, and how and why we make them; and how they affect our lives. I also think i'm not the only one who came/comes here to learn. Perhaps, others just learned faster than i did; and/or got all the help they needed without having to actually post about it.

When i first remember hearing about swingers (way back when) it was called swapping, i will be the first to admit the idea held little appeal for me. It was just an alternate lifesyle that i couldn't begin to imagine. But, in those days, there were so many reasons not to consider it that i guess i blew it off as just an excuse to cheat with permission.

Oh, who wrong can you be? I guess in my place, ignorance was not bliss! You live and you learn and if you're not learning, what's the point of living?

littlebit-happy-2-b-living & still-learning

jeanne

Thanks for a great thread. I'm in exactly the position of making this choice. Should I or shouldn't I.

I know I enjoyed swinging as a couple, but will swinging be worth the relationship issues that WILL stem from it in the future. Will I be able to let it go, as I currently believe I'll be able to, for the right woman? Will I even enjoy it as a single male?

I do believe however that I'd not be able to enter into a relationship that does not have the attributes I so admire in swinger's relationships. Openness, good communication, lots of trust... These relationship characteristics stem from the personal characteristics people have to start with, and if I don't sense that same attributes in a potential partner I can't see myself even falling in love. This of course does not guarantee remotely that the person will be ok with the fact that I was a swinger at some stage in my life... But I'll have to deal with that anyway.

I think it may even be more difficult for a partner to accept that you were in a relationship and took the decision to become swingers. If you entered the lifestyle as a single guy, the woman can reason that it was for easy sex, experimenting, etc, etc... As part of a couple, you had the very disturbing (for her) mindset that you'd want your wife to sleep with another man while you're watching. A distincly different situation and something she'll probably struggle to accept.

I'm hoping that when I get back to dating, I'd find some way to break the news to potential partners in such a way that I can be honest from the start. But I think it will always be a leap of faith for the other person if you share this information too quickly. After you've built up the trust and ventured onto relationship grounds, proven your fidelity, and proved to her that you are truly willing to give up the lifestyle for her (something I think is imperative for the relationship to work) it will be much easier to handle that at some stage you were involved in the lifestyle...

I don't have the answers, only questions and my own rambling thoughts...

Good point, Dr. Jekyll.

So, you think you could give up red meat if the lady you were infatuated with didn't like red meat? Well, I'm sure you could for a while..., but after a while you'd start seeing some red meat and get that sensation in your mouth again. That craving would always be in the back of your mind. Dreams, urgings, desires for red meat.

If you're single and love red meat why not just hang around meat markets and meet a nice woman who do enjoy some good red meat every now and then. Sure, the two of you could be healthy vegatarians most of the time but when that desire hits the two of you..., well go to a nice red meat restaurant and indulge together. Share this indulgence, watch each other indulging, talk later about your shared indulgence. Then, remember that great red meant while you're healthily (word?) vegatarianing (word?) in between indulgences.

But, if you meet a woman who isn't into red meat? Well, she might have a bite with you on a date so as not to offend you. She might even pretend to like it. But, once you're married she's likely to only fix vegatables. And trust me..., you'll someday want some more red meat!

There is in my opinion a big difference between giving up food of some sort and giving up swinging. Yes your analogy may be partially right, but it's not a basic need. I see giving up swinging like giving up smoking. It's hard initially, but in the long run you can certainly break the habit...

Which reminds me... I need a ciggy

Mike and Jan- Great analogy

Dr. Jekyll- Agree that there is a big difference between eating and swinging (although it is fun to combine the two. ) but either one is dependent on how strong your desire is.

There are a LOT of things I don't discuss with women until I'm fairly "involved" with them. How many lovers I've had, the details of my divorce, how much money I make, the kinkiest thing I've ever done in bed. Unless some aspect of our relationship bears on something I've done in the past, what purpose can possibly be served by bringing it up?

Part of the reason I feel that way is because I'm entitled to my privacy. A person should have a little "mystery" about them, especially when they're in a new relationship. Courtship is really a period of discovery, and it's no fun to "discover" everything that's interesting to know about the person by the end of the first date. "Cliff's Notes" might be OK when you're a college student carrying 18 units and working a part time job, but when you're reading a book purely for enjoyment, isn't it better to kick back and read it one page at a time?

Another reason I'm discrete about my sexual past is that the most salacious parts of it involve my ex-wife. She's fairly well-known in this community, and to speak of my history is to speak of her history as well. That's something I just won't do, unless the relationship has obviously gone beyond "casual" and is clearly headed towards "committed." Even then, I'm only specific to the extent necessary to illustrate a point. For example, have I "ever been to a particular club" or do I "know a particular person?" But the "who's and what's and where's" are generally no more her business than my ATM password. A woman might feel slighted by my sense of discretion in the beginning of a relationship, but just watch... she'll be the one insisting on it when we break up.

So, if you're dating, and you still have some compelling "need" to tell a woman that you "used to be a swinger," then the best time to do it is right after she tells you that she and her ex-husband "used to be swingers."

Just a question.

In this day and age, it's not uncommon to be sexually explorative. I (Dave) have a very hard time imagining that there are too many people out there over 25 who haven't slept with say, at least 10 people. There are some, I'm positive that haven't, but then I'm sure there are more than that that have.

My question is simple. How is swinging truly different from exploring sexuality with someone you're getting involved with? Unless you save sex for marriage, you pretty much have to have done some with different partners.

Perhaps what scares newbies is the ideas shown on shows like CSI where they think it is a big party and noone knows your name, instead of a group of adults who get together, have a few drinks, and get a bit sexually liberated.

Maybe in itself, the misconceptions about what swinging is is where things go wrong?

I agree that the misconceptions about swinging plays a big part...

But you have to add to that the total wierdness of the situation for someone who believes that sex = love. In most people's eyes this is the case, even the exploring sexually active people out there in general believe that once you're in a relationship, sex outside it's boundaries are not ok. And if you are ok with it, you're not only wierd, but probably a psychopath...

I rather enjoy being a psychopath...

Somewhere I read that statistically 75% of males and 63% of female high school students have had sex, and of that, what is the percentage that has no plans to marry that partner?

We're torn in our moralities. It's ok while single to play the field while when married you have to stay monogamous? OK, who elected the religious right to run our morals for us?

Swinging, we feel, is a natural extension of this ENCOURAGED sexual liberation of our teenagers and young adults. I say encouraged because I see in several different units, soldier's making fun of virgin soldiers and even going so far as to get them hooked up with barracks rats to eliminate that little problem.

Maybe if people knew what this was really about? That we go back to understanding that sex and love are not the same thing as we knew when we were experimenting youth? The best shows I've seen on the subject are the ones on HBO about different sexual things, and even then they are on late at night and I'm sure people watch those more for the masterbatory material than the ideas of fetish/lifestyle interests.

The problem, as I see it, is that we're basically given only one "template" for marriage. That is, marriage means "one man, one woman, no outside liasons, no sex with anybody else, attend church regularly and live by the good book, and most importantly, no sex with anybody else, FOREVER" If we live by these tenets, we're promised not only a life that extends "happily ever after" but an eternity in an even better place..."heaven."

The problem is...it just doesn't work that way for most people. The divorce rate for first-time marrieds has been hovering around 50% since the 70's. The number of remaining couples who stay married, but would NOT be, if they could maintain their standard of living after divorce, is almost 50%. That tells me that marriage, in the conventional sense, doesn't work 3 out of 4 times. If the payout on Las Vegas slot machines was that dismal, they'd close the place down.

Meanwhile, gay couples often form pair-bonds that last until death. Some couples have routine, almost ritualistic sex with other people, and report that doing so actually strenghtens their primary bond. Then, there are the cheaters...people who are able to tolerate staying in long-term relationships ONLY because they're involved in a succession of outside affairs. Many times, the spouse "looks the other way" so as to avoid conflict within the family.

It seems this thread has kind gotten off the intended mark!

Back to the original swinging subject of singles trying to start relationships and how to approach that subject matter with a potential new mate..... Well, this here single guy has recently found himself a steady girl (she's open, bi-sexual, and cool) and the subject of how to talk to her has come to my mind alot. I have hinted at a secret "freaky" sexual side to my life and she's cool with that and with us being with others (we are almost at the "exclusivity" phase in our relationship - we may even bypass this if I can get her on board with the lifestyle). Still I am cautious as to going in with both feet and coming right out and telling her that I AM A SWINGER...I want to be tactful and sensitive in my approach. I want to try and keep the life and build one with her.... maybe.

I also may meet with some people here soon, just at the critical time in our relationship. I've mentioned this...and she seems alright with it, but I really want to make sure she is. I'm thinking that maybe I should either accelerate bringing her into lifestyle or slow down the serious elements of possible serious realtionship until after previously arranged meetings! It can be frustrating trying to juggle all of this and try not to hurt people emotionally! I don't want to play games...I want to be honest. It's just that sometimes if you play that wrong, the honesty can seriously fuck up things! I know, honesty is best....

I do want the best of both worlds. This is a major thing that single swingers in the lifestyle have to face and deal with. Having to choose or trying to manage things so that you don't have to or so that you can bring your partner into your life! And dealing with the emotions of all of this!

I think that things will work out...she's really cool and very sexual. I probably will just come out an tell her all about my life. If she stays it was meant to be and we can go on to have adventures and life together (still early, but anythings possible). If she has a problem with this, then we'll have to see. I don't want to give up who I am! But, I guess you have to if it's the real thing ...don't you?

Fun stuff, huh? Welcome to the wonderful world of single swingers trying to have fun and form meaningful relationships! It's a precarious road to travel to get to the best of both worlds!

This thread has produced much thinking on my part. Just as swinging or a swinging past might be a deal breaker for a possible partner, think about this.

I assume that most of the people on this board are really into sex. Maybe in different ways, but we are all sexual people.

Suppose you met someone that you clicked on all levels but, they weren't really into sex. Doesn't matter the reason, just weren't into it. Not that they just weren't attracted to you, but were very non sexual. Now, could you hang up your swinging and stick with that person??

If I met someone who was very sexual but not into swinging, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but someone who wasn't sexual??? NO WAY MAN!!!! I mean, I don't have to have sex every day but they have to have some interest and be orgasmic, etc. I don't think I could spend my life with them knowing that all that fun was out there waiting so to speak.

What does everyone think of that?

I can say this. If I met a person that was non sexual, the relationship wouldn't go past the friendship stage. It really couldn't. The difference between a confidant of the opposite sex from a lover IS the desire on both people's part to have sex with each other. You can have sex with anyone. You can be a confidant to very few people. It is really rare to be a confidant to someone and share a sexual attraction with them. I find that a lot of people (myself included...in the past) put too much emphasis on either the sexual or emotional aspect of a relationship. If a strong emotional attraction is there, they will let the sexual attraction happen. But if a strong emotional ATTACHMENT is there, they worry about the sexual attraction ruining the friendship bonds. Some people get so consumed by that worry that they completely suppress their sexual desire for others. Of course, they then fall in love and become neurotic, because they have these feelings "they are not supposed to have for someone thats not their husband/wife". They end up driving the other person away, then try to bring them back, but drive them away, and eventually they settle on being friends.

Of course, everyone that sees them know they should be together, but nobody can put their finger on why they are not a couple. But even if actual intercourse doesn't happen, the ability to be comfortable with another person's body is essential for any kind of relationship beyond friendship. If that comfort level is not there, friendship is as far as it can go, no matter how much love there is.

That kind of comfort comes from trust in yourself and the person you are with. If you don't feel it from them, you will start looking for it somewhere else, no matter how much you want to be faithful. In the beginning of a relationship, that lack of trust is enough to stop it from evolving past the friendship stage.

ES, as usual you are dead on with so many things. I have female friends who are confidants and act like my Mother or at least a sister at times but there is no sexual attraction. I love these women dearly but for whatever reasons, no physical or spiritual attraction is there.

Here is a little of my take on it.

First a couple of quotes, "There are basically four areas of chemistry between dating partners: Physical, emotional, mental and spiritual. Physical chemistry generates desire. Emotional chemistry generates affection. Mental chemistry creates interest. Spiritual chemistry creates love. A soul mate includes all four." Dr. John Gray , from Mars and Venus on a Date

"It is wrong to think that Love comes from long companionship or persevering courtship. Love is the offspring of a spiritual affinity and unless that affinity is created in a MOMENT it will not be created in years or even generations." -- Kahlil Gibran, from The Broken Wings

Love sometimes grows and sometimes explodes on you. I have grown to love someone and I have been head over heels when I heard their voice. But all relationships have deal breakers. Cheating is a big one but there are many. How many people have had to divorce someone because they became addicted to drugs or alcohol?? The list is longer for some than others. Everybody here probably agrees that they can have physical chemistry with someone without any of the others and sometimes you can have physical and mental or physical and emotional chemistry with someone. It's that spiritual chemistry that we call love though. You only feel that if you don't already have it with someone else.

But I stray from the subject. Let's say you have the physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual chemistry with someone but for, let's say a physical reason, they have no interest in sex. Doesn't matter if it is because of cancer/chemo/radiation or because they were sexually abused as a child, whatever. BUT, they are attracted to you physically, mental, emotionally, and spiritually. Would you be willing to set that part of your life aside, the sexual side for love?? Let's say they could go through the act of sex but derived nothing from it other than a feeling of closeness?

I don't think I could do it. Too much of sex is about the other person being pleasured by being with me, of them wanting to be with me and to give and receive pleasure with me. Just wondered if most felt that way or I was just a selfish person or just a sexual person.

Good question, a bit more than just off topic, but still...

I don't think I'd be able to fall for any woman who don't love sex. But this is almost impossible to judge. If you're newly in love you want to be together so much libido plays a very small role in how much sex either party wants. It's only after 3 months or more has passed that you go out of this phase, and by then you may already be so in love that you miss the obvious signs. After six months you love, and then it becomes a netto account of good and bad emotions. The more good you experience, the less the chance is that you'd be truly unhappy for a long time.

A lack of sex will however take it's toll, and the partner must work harder to keep your affection. Some people can go without sex for years, others months... But I guess there is always some point where you realise you miss it. Doesn't mean you have to leave, but it isn't easy.

Sex for me is such a giving act that I cannot imagine it being rewarding with an unresponsive lover. So I'm with you curious...

I agree with you 100%

I am not currently involved in the swing lifestyle, but would like to one day, maybe soon who knows.

Reading all the threads this last week has been a great learning experience.

Thank you all.

1) I could not date someone that was not into sex. No way, no how. My last relationship ended because I fell into such a deep depression because my boyfriend did not want sex with me (for reasons unrelated to me, but the sexual rejection was too much for me to deal with.

2) I am very upfront with most guys that i date that I am polyamorus, that I do not think that I will be with one person for the rest of my life. How they react to that really sets the stage for the rest of the relationship. I can deal without sex with other people (but only if they are able to meet all my needs), but I refuse to give up my emotional attachments.