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PlacidMatt

New and wife is more comfortable that I am. Need advice

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Hello all from up here in Canada. I've been lurking for a couple days now and it seems to me that the atmosphere here is kind and supportive. There are many great threads and advice given here and I'm glad I found this place.

 

So - recently my girlfriend and I have decided to try swinging. We've met a couple who are a little more experienced than us, but we get along great as friends. No actual swinging has taken place as of yet, we've just had "dates" if you will. Now I'm a little bit more apprehensive than Mrs. Placid about swinging. She has said numerous time she is confident and comfortable enough in our love and relationship to know that swinging will be an exciting adventure for both of us, I agree. We've went over boundaries and have come to agreement on what were comfortable with. The boundaries are exclusively my own I might add, as she feels comfortable with a full swap right now. I have explained I am not and that I would like to take things slow and start off soft swapping and only having sex with respective partners until I feel more comfortable. She agreed and promised to respect the boundaries until we have a discussion that changes things. My issue, I suppose you can call it, is that she has never been a lovey-dovey type of person, and I've been okay with that. It's just now that we are considering swinging, I feel I need her to give me more assurance and love than she normally would, so that I feel confident and comfortable doing this.

 

I tried to talk to her last night as we are meeting the couple for a soft swap this weekend, and she got a little annoyed saying we've discussed this to death and that no new information can be obtained by discussion at this point and that I've sucked all the fun and spontaneity out of it by discussing it so much. She may be right but as it turned out we both went to bed feeling annoyed and angry. Her because she wanted cuddles and tickles as I normally give her while we fall asleep, ( I was feeling a little brushed off and didn't feel like doing it, though as i explained to her today, all I really wanted to hear from her by bringing up the discussion is that she loves me and wants to be with me and that a soft swing changes nothing, than tickles would definitely have ensued) and me because I felt that she was not willing to hear my feelings.

 

As I've said she is way more comfortable with this than I am, and does not appear to need reassurance at this point. I would really like to proceed with this weekend and I'm excited, but I'm a little unsure because she seems incapable of giving me the reassurance I need. As I've stated, I've never needed this from her before, but now I do because of the idea of swinging. How can I get through to her on this? I've tried talking to her and up until now we've had great communication about swinging and otherwise. Should I proceed and than see if she's more willing to be reassuring after the fact? I think this could be a great and exciting experience for us as does she but I know it won't work for me if at least until this become more comfortable she freely offers reassurance and words expressing love as a need it.

 

In point form here's what I am thinking;

 

- I feel like she is more comfortable and has less reservation about this than I do, and that scares me a little.

- Sharing a partner to me isn't an easy thing to do , at least not initially so I can't understand how she is so willing to share me.

- She needs no reassurance and doesn't seem to understand how important it is to me. (walking a mile in my shoes sort of thing)

 

 

An added note: we have kids, a house, and a life together. She's 25 and I'm 28.

 

I know this is all over the place and I haven't exactly asked a question, but anyone who can read between the lines and offer advice would be appreciated. I may add more as I have my thoughts sorted out better.

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Welcome, PlacidMatt. I'm so glad you decided to coming out of lurking and start your own thread. :)

 

This other couple...did they tell you two that they were swingers or are they just another couple that has had some wild college-type of experiences and may not have had the discussions that you and your girlfriend have had?

 

And may I ask if there is any concern about jealousy between the two of you? What are the things that makes you uncomfortable?

 

Since you have been lurking, I am sure you've come across the adage: Go as slow as the slowest person. In other words, move at the pace of the person who is most uncomfortable--and in this case, that would be you. Have you shared this site with her? I know it can hard to "slow the horses down" when one is excited to experience something new but since this involves both of you, she has to keep in mind that it isn't just about her but both of you. She needs to show you that she cares about your well-being by listening to your concerns and adjust her own desires and expectations. For many couples, swinging is a team sport. If it's a no for one, it's a no for both. Whether that means going slow, saying no to a couple where one is interested and the other isn't, stopping in the middle of playtime because one partner has changed their mind, or quitting swinging...that's what swinging is for a lot of couples. It's not a free-for-all and more likely than not, it's not about spontaneity. Couples deliberately go out to swinging dates/parties/clubs to meet with other couples to have casual sex as long as there is mutual attraction. Otherwise, you hardly hear of couples who reel in "vanilla couples/singles" to swing. Those are more organic and spontaneous experiences but can be rife with drama-bombs--possibly breaking up couples who weren't prepared for it, cheating spouses posing as singles, ruining friendships if converting vanilla couples to swingers, and etc.

 

I'd also like to add that communication and discussion about it doesn't end once you have your first experience--it is ongoing. There will be bumps in the road to work through. There will be excitement and wonderment to share with each other. There will always be re-evaluation of boundaries and limits, sometimes they are laid aside and other times they are re-instated or added.

 

Is there a point in discussion prior to having a swinging experience where all you ask is, "What if this? And what if that?" Yes. We reached that point where we didn't know how we would react until we first swapped...then we had our answers. But if there are concerns and one partner isn't willing to listen, then the relationship isn't ready to swing.

 

I hope this helped a little. I definitely recommend bringing your girlfriend here to do her own research and perhaps add her side of things to share what is going on in her mind.

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We're pretty new and just recently had our first experience, but I felt compelled to respond. We talked about it to death like you said for months before doing anything. I waffled on being ready and not being ready. We met 3 couples during this time which was helpful because the first was super pushy and we weren't attracted then the next two were as new as us and the fun never came up.

 

After meeting these people and continually talking about it I finally warmed up to the idea. By the fourth couple we met we were both ready and willing and we jumped directly into a full swap. Had we attempted anything with an earlier couple it would have been soft.

 

My wife was also ready sooner than I and didn't really understand why I was still apprehensive about it. A couple times she was ready too forget it because I kept wanting to talk about the same thing more.

 

I guess my advice from having just been in your shoes is give it more time and you'll be ready. Tell her what you are ready to do and let the other couples you meet know upfront. I bet once you meet a few and really click personality wise you'll be ready to go all the way.

 

It's been two weeks since we did that full swap and we're still excited about swinging. The next day was crazy as my mind was blown all weekend thinking about what we did.

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Welcome to the Swingers Board, and thanks for posting!

 

The advice you've already received is right on, so I'll address a different part of the issue. Swinging isn't a good tool to use to try to get something in a relationship that may not be quite what you would like it to be, in this case the open affection, lovey-dovey, reassurance, etc. from her. You say you are ok with that as it is, but being ok with and being completely satisfied with are two different things. Swinging is unlikely to move something from ok to completely satisfied with; in fact, it often takes any cracks and magnifies them from something small into something much larger.

 

I wonder too that if the way she isn't seeing this is you are asking something from her, but she doesn't know exactly where the finish line is from your eyes. People often get frustrated when something is asked of us but we don't know exactly what and how much, sort of the "just keep going and I'll let you know when it's enough" thing. I'm not saying this to discount your concerns, because they are very valid ones, but just to offer some ideas on how you can make the conversations about them more productive and less defensive.

 

Good luck on working this out, I think with just some more time and talk all will be ok.

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Thanks for the replies :)

 

Before I respond to things you've said I'd like to point out an interesting happening -

As of today she has told me that she is no longer interested in swinging as she thinks I'm not ready and have a few insecurities about it. In her words " lets forget about it and move on". The interesting part is that although she may just be saying this out of frustration, in a way it shows me she values our relationship more highly than excitement we might gain out of entering this lifestyle. Which is all I really needed to hear last night.

 

Anyways -

 

To address some things you've all mentioned, I don't think it a matter of being ok or totally satisfied as prior to this it wasn't something that crossed my mind. I wasn't thinking about how much or little reassurance I was receiving as I didn't require it. It just seems that now I do require it because of the items I mentions at the end of my first post.

 

"- I feel like she is more comfortable and has less reservation about this than I do, and that scares me a little.

- Sharing a partner to me isn't an easy thing to do , at least not initially so I can't understand how she is so willing to share me.

- She needs no reassurance and doesn't seem to understand how important it is to me. (walking a mile in my shoes sort of thing)"

 

This couple we've met is from a lifestyles website BTW.

 

Anyways at this point I'm feeling a little bit like I've disappointed her to some degree by "sucking the fun" out of this potential experience and I still want to proceed but it seems as though she has made up her mind to not do it now.

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I have no real issues with jealousy especially not doing a soft swap. My insecurities are that I'm afraid she might like this too much and I won't as much and she'll be disappointed that I want to stop. I'm also a little insecure as to why she is so willing to share me. I can't relate or understand as I have reservation about a full swap.

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Anyways at this point I'm feeling a little bit like i've disappointed her to some degree by "sucking the fun" out of this potential experience and I still want to proceed but it seems as though she has made up her mind to not do it now.

 

Yeah, that sounds real familiar. I'm pretty sure we had that exact same conversation verbatim. I was more hung up on the religious ramifications and kept waffling about whether I was alright with it or not. In our relationship, I am the talker and over thinker and she's the opposite and that's what led to the situation you are describing. I think you just need to give it some time and think on it some more. I'm sure she doesn't want to abandon the idea since she was more on board than you, but is just frustrated.

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It seems to me that you've done everything right. You talked about your concerns and your limits. You set your boundaries. You at least tried to talk about your feelings and needs.

 

Anyways at this point I'm feeling a little bit like i've disappointed her to some degree by "sucking the fun" out of this potential experience and I still want to proceed but it seems as though she has made up her mind to not do it now.

 

I'm torn. On the one hand, I know that over-analyzing a thing can suck the fun out of it. On the other hand, swinging is about communication and honesty as much as it is about sex. Any "wild spontaneity" can only successfully exist in a climate of clearly defined boundaries and open, honest communication. It may be that your wife feels like you've covered all the ground she felt needed to be covered. As it happens, she was wrong. IMO, she needs to listen to you and respect your emotional needs before you can move forward (with swinging or without).

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I think you just need to give it some time and think on it some more. I'm sure she doesn't want to abandon the idea since she was more on board than you, but is just frustrated.

 

This. If her interest in swinging is strong, it will still be there after some time. If your interest in swinging is weak, then some time will reveal how weak. Yes, with swinging at some point you just have to take the plunge and just do it since you can't jump off a cliff in stages. You can and should however walk slowly up to the edge and stand there looking down at the water for a while. Nearly every time that slower approach will lead to a much more comfortable and safer landing when you do hit the water after taking that big leap.

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Yeah, that sounds real familiar. I'm pretty sure we had that exact same conversation verbatim. I was more hung up on the religious ramifications and kept waffling about whether I was alright with it or not. In our relationship, I am the talker and over thinker and she's the opposite and that's what led to the situation you are describing. I think you just need to give it some time and think on it some more. I'm sure she doesn't want to abandon the idea since she was more on board than you, but is just frustrated.

 

You are spot on. We talked again last night. I learned some things about her I never knew. She says she'd be comfortable with polyamory if it moved in that direction.... While I am excited to learn these things on different levels, I must say "WHO ARE YOU", girlfriend, mother of my children?!?!

 

You are correct in that I am the thinker and over analyzer. In our discussion last night she revealed that she feels life is too short for over thinking that she feels the best course is plunge in and talk later. She said she felt comfortable that if something happened that one of us didn't like we'd talk after the fact and it wouldn't happen again. I always knew she was free spirited but not to the degree I know now. She completely believes nothing in life is predictable nor wants it to be. The fun in life she says is the not knowing and that she embraces it. It's like she's a whole new person to me in ways. I need some degree of predictability or reasonable expectation. I find it a little scary to be honest. She's talked about marrying me recently so I asked her how she can want to marry me but also have boyfriends on the side and have me have gf's on the side, she said because it's possible to love more than one person. While I agree, I don't want that nor do I understand the appeal in it.

 

Gah feeling in love, wonder, and confusion this morning :/

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In our discussion last night she revealed that she feels life is too short for over thinking that she feels the best course is plunge in and talk later. She said she felt comfortable that if something happened that one of us didn't like we'd talk after the fact and it wouldn't happen again.

 

On the surface, the idea of "if there is a problem, we'll talk about it and not do it again" sounds good. However, couple it with her "plunge in and talk later" attitude and alarm bells are ringing.

 

What I'm hearing, and I could be totally off base, is a very selfish mindset. She doesn't anticipate having any problems with what you do, because of who you are. If you have a problem with what she does, she says she won't do it again. She probably even means it. However, by not being willing to take steps to make sure that problems don't come up in the first place, she is showing that she doesn't really value your feelings. It's ok for you to get hurt but she'll say she's sorry afterward. That's a very selfish and immature attitude, and a recipe for disaster.

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On the surface, the idea of "if there is a problem, we'll talk about it and not do it again" sounds good. However, couple it with her "plunge in and talk later" attitude and alarm bells are ringing.

 

What I'm hearing, and I could be totally off base, is a very selfish mindset. She doesn't anticipate having any problems with what you do, because of who you are. If you have a problem with what she does, she says she won't do it again. She probably even means it. However, by not being willing to take steps to make sure that problems don't come up in the first place, she is showing that she doesn't really value your feelings. It's ok for you to get hurt but she'll say she's sorry afterward. That's a very selfish and immature attitude, and a recipe for disaster.

 

You are right in that she doesn't have any problems with what I do. She cannot foresee anything happening that would ruin our relationship for her. She knows I love her immensely. She said she feels the life we have together is not something that could just change because of a sexual act as i fulfill her sexually and emotionally and we have a love that is rooted beyond just sex and lust, that its built on partnership and respect. While I'm on board with those sentiments I am not at the place she is in terms polyamory and full swapping.

 

I understand she was just sharing her feelings and outlook and didn't say " I want to full swap and have a boyfriend or else I'll feel incomplete" but as I tend to over think things It makes me wonder if she'll be okay long term never having those things with me. I suppose I can only wait and see and deal with comes as it comes. She herself doesn't know and says she can't predict if she'll be okay not having those things in the future, but as of now its an exciting idea not something she desires more than this relationship. So with that as I said I'll just see where things go and not think on them until they are a reality.

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Also the thing is she'd never been one to think things through. It who she is. She gets a thrill out of the unknown. She has said she is aware that there could be a situation where I do something and she's like woah I didn't like that, but that its something she would tell me about after and deal with the hurt feelings than. She feels she loves me enough and is comfortable enough to feel secure should a situation arise she would tell me and than it would be in my court as to what happens. Either I talk it out and say look i didn't know that bothered you and I wont do it again or I'll say I really liked that and want to continue with or without you.

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This. If her interest in swinging is strong, it will still be there after some time. If your interest in swinging is weak, then some time will reveal how weak. Yes, with swinging at some point you just have to take the plunge and just do it since you can't jump off a cliff in stages. You can and should however walk slowly up to the edge and stand there looking down at the water for a while. Nearly every time that slower approach will lead to a much more comfortable and safer landing when you do hit the water after taking that big leap.

 

She said its not that she doesn't want to hear my feelings, its that she doesnt see the need to discuss "what if's" all the time, as it gets annoying. If I were to bring her a problem that actually happened and present my feelings on it, she would never get annoyed or brush it off. As far as I can tell this is truth as shes never brushed me off when I've discussed real problems that have actually happened.

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You guys are looking at this from 2 different directions. It seems that you are concerned that you may feel differently toward her or that she may drift away from you.

 

I totally see your girl's point of view. This stuff can be over discussed. Her not giving you what you are asking for is probably because she isn't usually like that. People have a tough time changing things like their level of affection. It is what it is, as much as I hate that saying. She feels confident in the relationship so may not understand how you don't.

 

Concerning the actual act, which is what is bothering you: Look, this is your life. Our life is brief. There are things that some folks need to experience. She is open to a different kind of relationship, one that does include you. She will be coming home with you, the same person, with a new and exciting experience.

It's possible to be overcautious in life. One can be sitting in a rocker looking back at missed opportunities, or showing a sly smile as a memory is playing out. This stuff isn't as life changing as you may think. If you stay together, some time down the road she may experience regret, and that can fester.

 

The first time I did a zip line I was so scared I thought I would have to back out. I had been watching folks walk back down the tower the whole time. They couldn't do it. I had to do this. I am terrified of heights but couldn't back out. When I was pushed off that freakishly high tower, my heart was pounding, I was sweating, shaking, all but crying. I lived. It was a series of about a dozen towers. By the third tower, I was running off the platform, jumping into the air and back flipping. It's just that sex is this big deal our whole life. Then some of us realize, and I really hope you do too, that it isn't that insane. But I guarantee, you WILL feel alive.

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You guys are looking at this from 2 different directions. It seems that you are concerned that you may feel differently toward her or that she may drift away from you.

 

I totally see your girl's point of view. This stuff can be over discussed. Her not giving you what you are asking for is probably because she isn't usually like that. People have a tough time changing things like their level of affection. It is what it is, as much as I hate that saying. She feels confident in the relationship so may not understand how you don't.

 

Concerning the actual act, which is what is bothering you: Look, this is your life. Our life is brief. There are things that some folks need to experience. She is open to a different kind of relationship, one that does include you. She will be coming home with you, the same person, with a new and exciting experience.

It's possible to be overcautious in life. One can be sitting in a rocker looking back at missed opportunities, or showing a sly smile as a memory is playing out. This stuff isn't as life changing as you may think. If you stay together, some time down the road she may experience regret, and that can fester.

 

The first time I did a zip line I was so scared I thought I would have to back out. I had been watching folks walk back down the tower the whole time. They couldn't do it. I had to do this. I am terrified of heights but couldn't back out. When I was pushed off that freakishly high tower, my heart was pounding, I was sweating, shaking, all but crying. I lived. It was a series of about a dozen towers. By the third tower, I was running off the platform, jumping into the air and back flipping. It's just that sex is this big deal our whole life. Then some of us realize, and I really hope you do too, that it isn't that insane. But I guarantee, you WILL feel alive.

 

I agree that we are looking at this differently, and it may be that she can't relate because she is that comfortable in our relationship. And you are right in presuming I am afraid of her possibly drifting away from me. We have a great relationship inside and out. We've had our bumps where we've almost broken up but ultimately talked things out and came out stronger for it. We have a good sex life from my perspective and great from hers. The difference being I have a higher libido than her so I don't always get as much as I like. She's happy with one really good session a week where I'm happier with two or three. We try new things sexually frequently ranging from new toys to outdoors to in parking lots behind our tinted windows lol. we have 2 great kids and a wonderful life together. I'm afraid of losing that. Some part of me knows that this could make our bond even stronger and another part fears the what if's. What if she likes this more than me and doesn't want to stop? What if swapping with other loving couples isn't enough and she wants to try MFM or swinging on her own? I know I can't predict this stuff, but she has expressed that she would be okay if at some point we were poly. It's scary.

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Also on a sexual note, I'm a little nervous to share that sexual energy. Since she's happy with one good session a week, I don't think I'd be okay with swapping if we were doing that 2 times a month. If it was once a month or ever other month cool, because I'm still enjoying most of that energy. Is that selfish of me?

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If things are 100% solid, you won't lose them, because you can't. As I mentioned, swinging is a magnifier, and you can't magnify something that isn't there to start with. But, if there are cracks, and honestly I think there are some here, then you can guarantee swinging will find them and make them larger, as I think you are already finding out. That's not necessarily a bad thing, before you can patch up and fix something you have to know it's there. So you identify those cracks, fix them, and then you've got a stronger foundation than you did before.

 

Has any swinger ever left their spouse for another swinger? Yes, it has happened. Has any husband/wife, swinger or no swinger, left their spouse for the UPS man, secretary, kid's teacher, etc, etc, etc. Happens every minute of every day. It's much less likely that it's going to happen with another swinger, because well, they're swingers. They aren't looking for their next relationship, they're looking to have casual sex. Can you say that about all the other people she encounters in her daily life? No you can't, because a fair number of them ARE looking for their next relationship, but if you aren't able to sever the sex and relationship connection in your head, then since you don't think of sex when you see the UPS guy coming up the driveway, then you don't think of relationship either. I think that's why so many people who get cheated on don't see it coming...that sex=relationship connection is so strong with them they can't see one coming unless they can see both. But, do you worry about her and that as she goes about her daily business every day? No, you don't probably, so why elevate those concerns so much now?

 

On the sexual energy thing, there is absolutely nothing in the world that will crank up the sexual energy like swinging does when it's working right. That doesn't mean you should look past the other pitfalls it can bring with it just to try to get that, but when everything is working like it should, it will crank things up for both of you like you haven't felt in years, if ever.

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Been here, done this. I have always said that I put the anal in analyze. We talked and talked and talked...but then is talking more ever a bad thing? I also used to be VERY jealous when I was a youngster so I was afraid that would play into the mix as well. Finally we had to either jump or get out of the way.

 

We started slow and...nothing bad happened. So we went a little further...and nothing bad happened. In fact, GOOD happened. It was great and hot and sexy and exciting. It made our relationship that was great to begin with, even greater. Not saying that this is for everyone...it isn't. In fact it isn't for most people. It will destroy a weak relationship but it can make a good one better.

 

Don't feel rushed, but don't miss out on an adventure just because you are afraid. Take small steps and see how it is. Start with soft or even same room sex and see how that goes. You can always back out later if you don't enjoy it. As already noted, one of the few rules we have left (and we had a big list of them when we started) is moving at the pace of the slowest member and that if either one of us ever wanted to stop, we would walk away without ever looking back. Sometimes the risk can be worth the reward.

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If things are 100% solid, you won't lose them, because you can't. As I mentioned, swinging is a magnifier, and you can't magnify something that isn't there to start with. But, if there are cracks, and honestly I think there are some here, then you can guarantee swinging will find them and make them larger, as I think you are already finding out. That's not necessarily a bad thing, before you can patch up and fix something you have to know it's there. So you identify those cracks, fix them, and then you've got a stronger foundation than you did before.

 

Has any swinger ever left their spouse for another swinger? Yes, it has happened. Has any husband/wife, swinger or no swinger, left their spouse for the UPS man, secretary, kid's teacher, etc, etc, etc. Happens every minute of every day. It's much less likely that it's going to happen with another swinger, because well, they're swingers. They aren't looking for their next relationship, they're looking to have casual sex. Can you say that about all the other people she encounters in her daily life? No you can't, because a fair number of them ARE looking for their next relationship, but if you aren't able to sever the sex and relationship connection in your head, then since you don't think of sex when you see the UPS guy coming up the driveway, then you don't think of relationship either. I think that's why so many people who get cheated on don't see it coming...that sex=relationship connection is so strong with them they can't see one coming unless they can see both. But, do you worry about her and that as she goes about her daily business every day? No, you don't probably, so why elevate those concerns so much now?

 

On the sexual energy thing, there is absolutely nothing in the world that will crank up the sexual energy like swinging does when it's working right. That doesn't mean you should look past the other pitfalls it can bring with it just to try to get that, but when everything is working like it should, it will crank things up for both of you like you haven't felt in years, if ever.

 

Thanks you for this, especially the last part. I am starting to wonder if I am worrying for nothing. You are right, I don't worry about her leaving me for other men on a daily basis. Im not worried about the ups man, or the guy she talks to at work. So why worry about a man whose wife I am also fucking, that loves her as much as I love my wife.

 

He doesn't know her body like I do, he doesn't and will never know how she loves to have her head pulled snugly into my neck while she orgasms as we make slow passionate love. We will be fucking in a purely animal pleasure based way, and going home with each other to cuddle in bed and talk about how much fun we had.

 

I think I've been wigging out a little, and perhaps as others have stated she's feeling annoyed talking about this TOO much and that we've covered all the bases. I should know better as I've always known her to be a woman who embraces the unknown and doesn't like to take the mystery out of things by over analyzing. I know and trust that is something happened I wasn't comfortable with we would talk it out and it would be ok. I think more than anything I needed to type out my feelings and concerns and get opinions and advice from those who have more experience than I.

 

Thank you all very much for welcoming me here and offering advice and experienced words :)

 

We've talked and we are going to proceed with this couple. We both know the boundaries and for her sake will just let things evolve naturally in terms of the whens and hows

of the sex to ensue. We will be starting with a soft swap for as long as it takes for me to feel comfortable, if ever.

 

I feel I should point out, as I may have painted her out to be not willing to hear me out. That's not fair. She works as a nurse and has a 7 day on schedule with 4 days off. Alot of my badgering her to talk about what-if happened during her work week, and she is generally already stressed when she gets home and just wants to relax and cuddle and not think. This more than likely the cause of her annoyance in combination with my badgering.

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Hello,Matt, and welcome to SwingersBoard!

 

So, I'm coming to this party a little late. I just read through the thread up to this point. You've gotten some really great advice already, but I wanted to jump in with an observation or two, as Mrs. CoupleInMD and I have fresh memories of when we started out (just about eight months ago).

 

Talking things over beforehand is good- as others have mentioned, one of the great benefits of this thing of ours is that it forces a couple to communicate better and more deeply than before. I learned some things about my wife that I never knew, just as you did, and we've been married for 20 years! That said, although it makes all kinds of sense to think things through, play out some scenarios in your head, and try to think about how you both might feel about them, there are some things that are just unknowable until you actually experience them. Ultimately, the Mrs. and I had to honestly admit that we just didn't know how we would feel at the moment that we saw our spouse kissing, fondling, and fucking the other person. But we decided to hold hands and take a leap of faith in our relationship. And it turned out that, for us, it made us happy (and proud) to see each other stretching our boundaries and having a good time- and it was totally hot to watch as well!

 

Swinging can be like putting a relationship on an emotional high wire. It is thrilling, but can be dangerous if you don't keep your balance.

 

One thing that caught my attention in your description of your girlfriend's feelings was her willingness to consider a polyamorous situation. That is a whole different thing from swinging, and in my opinion requires an even more rock-solid relationship to manage. Swinging couples are often (though not always) friends with benefits. We have got some good friends that we play with, but we do not have feelings for them that go beyond close friendship. And some lifestyle people have a great time playing with even less of an emotional attachment with their play partners. It seems like it would be safer to put the polyamory idea back on the shelf for a while, at least until you are both comfortable with each other in a swinging relationship.

 

Good luck to you both, keep talking and trusting, and don't forget to have fun!

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Well, I really hope we didn't push you in the wrong direction. I'm thrilled that you are open to this though. I predict that in a few months, the tone of your posts will be changing to 'wow'.

 

Good luck man. You have a great girl there.

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One thing that caught my attention in your description of your girlfriend's feelings was her willingness to consider a polyamorous situation.

 

She suggested that she thinks she would be okay with such an animal not that she wants that now. As I've said she embraces the unknown and I think while she may be capable of such a thing talking and doing are two different things and her attitude would probably be more apprehensive should I say okay, I'm on board I'm going to find a girlfriend, go find a boyfriend, y'know?

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Also on a sexual note, I'm a little nervous to share that sexual energy. Since she's happy with one good session a week, I don't think I'd be okay with swapping if we were doing that 2 times a month. If it was once a month or ever other month cool, because I'm still enjoying most of that energy. Is that selfish of me?

 

No, you love to have sex with her and want to have more. I think that's healthy and normal. The good news is that you will likely end up having even more sex with her. This swinging thing has a way or ramping up sexual energy on both sides.

 

We also have what we call reclamation sex. Whether it is when we get home, the next morning, or the next night, we make it a point to have sex again, just the two of us, as a way to reconnect.

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Well it sounds like you guys have a lot of conversation going already. I agree with the above posters in the statements regarding continued conversation all through the experience. I also think your GF is being a bit immature saying 'we will fix the mistakes that happen afterwards'. That's like jumping off a bridge and expecting to fix yourself after you land?!? The other part of this experience, where she is right, is that you will never be able to predict what happens. After a while you do start to see some patterns, but there still seems to be the unexpected that get's thrown at you. Having the conversations initially help everybody go in the right direction.

 

I also don't think it's selfish of you to want more sex on a regular basis. This may increase your frequency, it may not? Only time will tell on that one.

 

Ohh forgot to add we have definitely found the need to look out for each other and make sure that we are both having a good time. Things happen, but checking in regularly, and taking time to reconnect, usually with an end of the night romp with each other, has worked really well.

 

Good luck with the first experiences!

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Great advice is already given, but I would like to address one side note you made about the difference in frequency, as she favors once a week and you more often. I feel this has less to do with her personality / sexuality and more with this:

She works as a nurse and has a 7 day on schedule with 4 days off. A lot of my badgering her to talk about what-if happened during her work week, and she is generally already stressed when she gets home and just wants to relax and cuddle and not think.

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Update:

 

We went ahead this weekend and enjoyed a soft swap. All I can say is was a great experience for all involved. The girls started things off kissing and stroking each other, teasing us men. After they were nice and excited from each other they involved us by first giving oral to their respective men, then switching. It was really hot seeing my wife give oral to another man while receiving oral from a new woman at the same time. It was even more hot seeing her receive oral and a fantastic orgasm from two new people.

 

I think the best part, for me anyways, was the the end where the other male was fucking his girl from behind while she gave me head and my wife rode my my face. Just so many bodies touching each other....damn. She also did something I can only describe as the hottest thing she's done to me, right before she was going to have her last orgasm on my face she took my cock out of the other women's mouth, kissed her deeply with tongue, and jumped on my cock until she finished.

 

Long story short, we had a GREAT time.

 

On a side note we've had sex at least 5 times since Saturday night. That's a happy perk lol. She also seems want more affection from me these last few days, short kisses, lingering touches as she walks by, we always cuddle as we fall asleep but it seems she's been holding me tighter than usually too.

 

While at this point I'm still not ready for a full swap I'm certainly looking forward to the next time we meet this couple for more play.

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It's great to hear you all had such a good first experience and are now enjoying the happy aftereffects too :)

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Hi Matt! Glad to hear you had such an awesome first experience. I hope it's helped ease some of your worries. I know when Mr. intuition897 and I finally went full swap, we opened our eyes and realized that the sky hadn't fallen and the fire and brimstone were nowhere to be found. It didn't hurt! We discovered that the hurt was something that, at some level, we decide whether or not to feel.

 

It sounds like you're on your way to figuring things out, but I just wanted to comment that one of the reasons I think swinging is so cool is because it is such a leveler of the playing field. It allows women to be the sexual dynamos they really are, without apology. And it allows men to admit - without guilt or stigma - that they're not made of steel, but vulnerable human beings whose feelings deserve to be acknowledged and respected. I love that it forces us to be authentic, honest and brave enough to accept the truth about ourselves and those we have chosen to share our lives with. It makes me a better person.

 

Please keep us updated. I know this isn't where the conversation ends; there's a whole new perspective you've discovered, and the learning doesn't stop here. So glad for you, that things seem to be working out.

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Male half here, usually it's Sue commenting. I've learned to follow her lead on these things. My background is more conservative, I'm more cautious so doing so results in me breaking out of my mold. When we were first dating, we walked up the stairs to a roof top bar with nude dancing. She immediately wanted to strip and do it. I talked her out if it. Next night we went with two other couples and had the time of our lives; still go back for more whenever we visit.

 

When another couple first invited us to "swing" with them, we talked about it and talked about it, she wasn't sure about bi-lady part, neither of us were concerned about jealousy, but said she could easily try MFM for a first step. Topic fell a side. A few months later, the male half of the couple happened into town on business, wanted to meet for drinks. When I stopped by home to pick up Sue, I could tell by her dress that she had more in mind then just drinks--short dress, cleavage, thigh-highs, no undies. During drinks, the topic of the foursome comes up, we apologetically explain Sue's reluctance at bi with a female but she explains, but I would love to do you Denny. Bingo, we are upstairs having our first MFM. A few weeks later, we are at a outdoor tiki bar in a resort, she is chatting with a young guy next to her, it's closing time, his four friends are hitting on two younger ladies. We all buy extra drinks as the barkeep closes down. I go to the restroom, come back and she has her blouse pulled open showing him her no tan lines. An hour later, we are all in bed having our second, his first MFM.

 

And the same was true with our first couples swap. We are at couples club for our first time, for their Sunday nude sun bathing. I'm sleeping in the sun, she awakes me, say's that couple wants to go up and play and we do. Point here is, there are somethings where the guy should lead, dancing perhaps, their are other things were the lady is a better leader so just learn to follow and enjoy.

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PlacidMatt, this is great news! I'm glad to hear that things went so well, and that the sight of your spouse playing with others turned you on! It's great to hear about the happy side-effect of more sex between you two, too.

 

Here's hoping that you two keep talking (just the right amount, not to death:) ) and keep having fun. And while you have both learned that stretching your boundaries can be fun, I will mention that many couples have a policy of moving at the pace of the "slower" member, whoever that may be.

 

So, do you two have a next adventure in the works? Do you think you will stick with soft swap for a while (which is great!), or are you starting to talk about a full swap sometime down the road?

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I have really enjoyed reading this. But as a simple shemale videochat performer swapping as a gay or straight couple seems to be the issue me me, and not apparently you. Having found a new female possibly to enter a swapping experience with maybe, I am left confused about swapping partners so frequently that it just all ends up like 4 people trading in their cars session after session. Not everyone is going to eventually end up with a Cadillac are they?

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Hey all I've got something on my mind and just curious is maybe I'm over thinking again lol.

 

Since the soft swap and even before we'd all been texting each other. Which in itself is no issue as our phones are open to each other and either one of us are free to read whatever. Its just that last night after work I asked he how things were and she gave me "long day"... that's it. Even after a little prying that's the answer I got. Later in the evening when we were cuddling in bed she got a text from the male and proceeded to show me their conversation from the day. It seems she'd had more than just a long day, and told him many details she'd not said to me.

 

When I asked her why she said because she's tired and didnt feel like going through it again. I expressed to her that I feel a little jealous about it and that I feel like that's "ours". Its not that she told him about her day, its that she went into more detail with him and got her venting out to him, and not me. I look forward to hearing about her day and listening to her vent after the kids are in bed and we are cuddling. It the time we unwind and reconnect.

 

Has anyone else ever had this happen? What were your thoughts? Am I over thinking again? Other than that everything is great.

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I expressed to her that I feel a little jealous about it and that I feel like that's "ours".

How did she react to this?

 

We haven't dealt with this situation, but I can see why it bugged you. I wouldn't give her too much grief for doing it the first time though. I think it's one of those "I didn't think about that" situations.

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I agree with two4youinswva. While I wouldn't overthink it the first time it happens, I would strongly suggest being absolutely clear with her about how it feels and why it feels that way...and that doing again is NOT okay. Consider it a learning opportunity.

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Part of your question has to do with keeping things "just between you two", and part centers on sharing couple-to-couple communications between you two. I'll comment on the second part for the moment.

 

We have had one or two uncomfortable reactions related to texting. In our case, we are good with texting or some other kind of chatting (Facebook, Yahoo chat, etc.), and even OK if it gets sexy at times. But we do keep that stuff open to each other, and we make sure that our chatting counterpart knows that we always share the full content of our chats with each other. When texting, we prefer to do "group texts" so that both of us get any texts that pass between one of us and another couple. Setting that tone of total sharing is very helpful, since we know that there will be no secrets with a play partner that are kept from our spouse, and hence less cause for suspicion or jealousy.

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We limit text interactions to the two males only or group texts that involve everyone. This way there's no possibility of any misunderstandings from a M to F text. Just like when we are all physically together, it's either all of us or at least both of the men know what is going on.

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It seems to me that the day-of-text is just something new that she felt she had to experience. She might have not even realized how deeply she was involved in it until she had a space of time to look back upon it. Not a problem, I think, unless it starts to happen too much.

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We met up again this weekend and had some more soft fun. Started with massages than evolved into switching partners for massage and oral. After the ladies had a few orgasms we returned to our wives for sex. We again had a great time. My wife was correct in the fact that you can't know how you'll feel until you do it. It's surprising to me that what's bugging me a little now has nothing to do with the playing. Keep in mind were still new please. Anyways the playing is great, there's no jealousy or hurt feelings for anyone. The thing that's bugging me is the amount of dirty talk through texting she does with the other male. I think this bugs me because her and I never do that anymore and it's hard to read the things she says to him. So you know the other female tries to dirty talk with me through text and I'll oblige to a minimal level but it really doesn't interest me. When I'm at home with my wife I'd rather have that with her. Now I don't mean I want my wife to text me dirty things when she's right beside me but instead of texting him dirty things from work, why not me? Or send me the sexy photos of her breasts? It's like she has this sexual energy we used to have but for him.

 

I get its new and exciting and I'm excited and pleased to pleasure another woman but after when we're not with them my focus is on my wife. The other thing is this couple doesn't seem to have sex very often. Since our last swing we've had sex with each other every other day. Before that is was at least once a week but often 2 times. I'm concerned they use swinging to release their sexual needs but otherwise don't have a lot of sex. This scares me a little on another note because I don't want that to brush off on us. While I like the newness of this couple and LS I LOVE having sex with my wife and only intend for this adventure to be an extension of an already great sex life.

 

Anyways there's two separate issues here, hope to hear from all you great people ��

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I'll also add that I have not yet talked about this with my wife. I intend to but I'd rather get my thoughts and feeling clear and concise before doing so. I am not so bugged by this to have it have an affect on my general mood or my mood towards her. It's not as if she's keeping it a secret or doing anything I've told her I'm not comfortable with. I just have have some unclear thoughts and feelings towards it that maybe you's can help me hash out before mentioning it to her.

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It's NRE, new relationship energy. Shouldn't be anything to worry about. When you really click with someone, swinging is very exciting...that's why you do it, right? Don't get scared off by the word "relationship". You are having sex with them, you DO have a relationship. There are many levels of relationships, the word doesn't automatically mean love, romance, or anything like that. "Bond" is actually probably a better word there. It's hard not to bond with someone in some way if you've had sex with them. Even if you only had sex once and never see them again, but you still occasionally reminisce about that night, then you do have a bond, or at least in my book you do.

 

Take that NRE and apply it to your own relationship. Start sexting her, send her pics, etc. and I bet she will do the same to you. You said you weren't really into that, and if she doesn't specifically know that, she has probably picked up on it. Show her that you are interested now, and I'll bet she will be thrilled to have added that extra little bit of fun and spice to your own relationship.

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We stick to men text the men, women text the women, or a group text with all involved. But then again, we are in this as a couple and our "kink" is the group aspect, not the one on one with someone else.

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We only use grouptext and for us it is a perfect solution. Nobody is left out this way. Of course not always all four of us are in the same playful mood (or free from work etc), so sometimes it is for instance just the women goofing arround and the men are reading it. As we all four just beginning this swinging adventure, we all find it nice to have this extra layer of bonding.

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just find other people to swap with and you get to keep her. I do shemale cup size A adult videochat with new people most days in the summer and nobody wants to ruin anything............... :)

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Have there every been times where you or your partner didn't feel like playing so one partner vetoes it? We have a play date this weekend and I'm not feeling it. My wife has been working her 7 days on with her last shift being today. When she working she's sometimes stressed out. This was one of those stressful weeks. She's been Naggy, needy (wanting more tickles and rubs than usual etc) and too tired to give attention/affection. I've put a lot of energy into her this week and got very little from her. Now I don't do those things for her just to get attention back, but when there's a lack of it, it eventually weighs on you, you know? I don't really feel like sharing her this weekend as I want some time for us to reconnect, make love, and feel that intimacy from her. I've suggested she find another job as this one is too taxing on her, our kids, and our relationship. I make enough that she could realistically work part time as a nurse and we'd be more than ok. She overall a happier more affectionate person when not overworked and I miss it.

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Have there ever been times where you or your partner didn't feel like playing so one partner vetoes it?

 

Absolutely. In this case, it sounds like you and your wife need time to reconnect with each other before going out to do any swinging. Instead of going to a swing-related event, just go out on a date with the two of you.

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