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Sweetdee

New here and need input/help with one messed up situation

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Hi everyone, I've been reading these threads for awhile to see what everyone's experiences have been (the good bad and the ugly lol) this is the Mrs (the Mr doesn't read these boards) and i had a rather rough introduction the world of swinging. Sorry if this is long but I will try to give you the cliff notes. In 2011, (Christmas Eve to be exact) while my in-laws were visiting I noticed that my husband was ignoring everyone and glued to his iPhone. When I got up the next morning I did the unthinkable and checked his phone and saw texts to another woman about how much they were attracted to each other etc... Yada yada yada. Needless to say Christmas Day was ruined. My husband claimed that she was someone who tended bar who he happened to know from his high school days and who happened to be bi and he was hoping to get me into a threesome with (something I never expressed interest in) and that he loved me but that this was a fantasy of his and would mean so much to him. I was somewhat intrigued by the idea of a threesome but distrustful of this situation - fast forward a month I agreed to meet up with this girl who seemed cool (although I was still distrustful) and I went through with it. Next thing I knew her and my husband are texting/talking daily. I was a workaholic and she would be over at my house and I would wake up and she would be cleaning my kitchen. She breaks up with her boyfriend and tells people she is in a poly relationship with my husband and I tell my husband this is over I agreed to a one time experiment not to him getting a girlfriend. They won't stop. I leave town on business and he takes her out on a date with his friends. Finally he agrees to end it. Now they are 'just friends' and still talk daily and meet at times for coffee. And he can't understand why I'm upset because there is no sex involved. And claims that they never did anything outside of our few experiences together so it shouldn't be a problem. I have already told him I am leaving him, he claims to be devastated but still maintains his relationship with her and thinks it's ok because she has a new boyfriend. Did I mention that during this whole debacle my father was dying and passed away and he actually invited her to his wake? I'm not sure what advice I need, but maybe just some affirmation as to what my heart already knows? Thanks :-(

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Please consider this your affirmation.:sad:

 

And sorry for the loss of your father. You must be an amazing person to handle that much stress all at once.:)

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I'm sorry you're married to a stupid, stupid man. And, yeah, I doubt anyone here would grudge you an affirmation (of what you already know).

 

I'm sorry for the loss of your father.

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I'm sorry you're married to a stupid, stupid man. And, yeah, I doubt anyone here would grudge you an affirmation (of what you already know).

 

I'm sorry for the loss of your father.

 

Come on, how do you really, really feel?:lol:

 

 

I agree, by the way. One of my friends went the same way, except it was the wife that was romantically interested and used an "open marriage" as the excuse. It's only fun if it's fun for everyone.

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Thanks for the replies you guys. I think that my grief over the loss of my dad made me doubt myself and buy into the whole 'there's nothing wrong since we are just friends'. And wow, what a creep to do this to me in the first place, but especially when I was dealing with my father's illness and passing.... And thanks again for the words of comfort.

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The funny thing is, that I was willing to explore the lifestyle and hit up a few parties and see what we could do as a couple - but he can't let his girl go. So that's all off the table. I don't do open marriages, and after this I don't trust him enough to even think of swinging. What a cad he turned out to be. :-(

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Sweetdee, welcome to the forum. Unfortunately, I must break the news to you...all of that stuff you went through was not swinging. I am glad to hear that you are leaving him because you don't deserve to be treated that way. If you're interested in trying out true swinging, I hope you find someone in the future that truly understands your worth, places your relationship together first, and doesn't lie and cheat on you and call it something else to make you think it's okay.

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Dear Sweetdee,

 

So sorry to hear this tale. It's an unhappy ending for all concerned. All of you have lost something precious.

 

If there is a silver lining, it might be learning from the experience. What we ourselves have learned is the importance of being able to communicate honestly and openly. Relationships change, and the people in them change. It sounds as if he was never able to clearly see (much less speak about) those wants and needs in a way that you and he could work with them and through them. The importance of candor, trust, and loyalty to every relationship is apparent.

 

It must be especially hard for you to be dealing with all of this during the holiday season. Good luck and here's hoping you find happiness, security, honesty and serenity in the next phase of your life.

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Sweetdee, welcome to the forum. Unfortunately, I must break the news to you...all of that stuff you went through was not swinging. I am glad to hear that you are leaving him because you don't deserve to be treated that way. If you're interested in trying out true swinging, I hope you find someone in the future that truly understands your worth, places your relationship together first, and doesn't lie and cheat on you and call it something else to make you think it's okay.

 

Really can't say it better than this. I'm sorry for the loss of your father. I'm sorry your (soon to be ex) husband is an asshat. I hope things get better for you in the near future.

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I am going to head the other direction on this. I am sorry to hear of your fathers passing Bless you and all your family I know how hard that is.

 

What your husband did was wrong. Period. However. Everyone makes mistakes. Throwing out a marriage may not be the cure. You will still have the pains of affair and the betrayal. I know I have been cheated on myself. But, and this is a big but. I had my part in it as well. I put my career and life ahead of my wife and our life. This is just my experience with infidelity I would like you to know we worked this out together. Who knows maybe this marriage can be saved. Or not. I do not have a horse in this race.

 

I just want you to know that infidelity is not the worst thing that can happen to a marriage and that you might make it work. I know he was a jerk for doing what he did and deserves to lose you.. Its like my lawyer friend always said. Divorce is a easy thing to fix. You can always get married later.

 

I hope the best for you and want you to know that there is always another option. ALWAYS.

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However. Everyone makes mistakes. Throwing out a marriage may not be the cure. You will still have the pains of affair and the betrayal. I know I have been cheated on myself. But, and this is a big but. I had my part in it as well. I put my career and life ahead of my wife and our life. This is just my experience with infidelity I would like you to know we worked this out together. Who knows maybe this marriage can be saved. Or not. I do not have a horse in this race.

 

I just want you to know that infidelity is not the worst thing that can happen to a marriage and that you might make it work. I know he was a jerk for doing what he did and deserves to lose you.. Its like my lawyer friend always said. Divorce is a easy thing to fix. You can always get married later.

 

I hope the best for you and want you to know that there is always another option. ALWAYS.

 

This is a great point. I had missed the part where the OP stated that she was a workaholic. Both partners in the relationship need to work together to spend time with each other and also communicate with each other about any issues, problems, needs, wants, etc. So, yes, perhaps the OP had a part in the mess that occurred. However, and maybe this is a big assumption on my part since she doesn't mention whether she asked her husband to stop seeing and talking to the other woman, if she repeatedly asked for him to end contact with this other woman because the entire situation was compromising the relationship, then he wasn't willing to stop, listen, and consider how this was affecting his wife and their marriage. Point blank, his shoe was already over in the next green pasture. He was acting selfishly and wasn't willing or intending to stop. For all we know, he could have been giving her lip service that he had "stopped seeing" the other woman but he was still interacting with her daily and having coffee dates. This behavior shows that he's holding on to the other woman.

 

At the end of the day, both partners have to be willing to make a serious effort into making a relationship work after cheating/lying/deception/affair/infidelity. It doesn't work if one partner is on the dance floor waiting to dance but the one they are waiting for is at a table playing footsies with someone else. If he really wants to save his marriage, he has to make the first move by putting the marriage in first priority, which is where it should have been. If not, then walk away.

 

Added note: if the OP is still a workaholic, it would have been advisable to put more time and effort into the relationship and less time working as well.

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She does mention he agreed to end it but hasn't so obviously that issue was discussed.

 

Normally I would agree that every effort should be made to preserve a marriage especially where children are concerned but that isn't mentioned so I presume none exist.

 

Once you have made an effort to get your partner to break off a toxic (to the marriage) relationship and they refuse there is not much else to be done except move on. Unless you LIKE being #2.

 

The first step any counselor would take would be to tell the parties that outside relationships like this must cease. Otherwise there is no point in counseling.

 

And while I take the point about workaholic vs relationship I would go ballistic if I came home and found some guy working in my garage and claiming a poly relationship with my wife. I'm not convinced he would survive that moment :D

 

I think she's right in moving on at this point.

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I just threw out, maybe try to save this marriage, for the sake of keeping a relationship. We are human and lots of mistakes happen. Not being in the relationship I dont know this couple and wish her the best. Some men just do not want to be a father and dont find out till after they are married. Now, he has created alot of wreckage. What a sad thing to have happened.

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As already stated, he was talking to her IN SECRET (via texts) and most likely would have continued if you wouldn't have found him out...THEN it became HIM wanting to swing. After it happened (taking one for the team...NEVER a good thing), he wants to keep seeing her even though it's now no longer sexual (according to him) even if it costs him the relationship you have. Stupid, stupid, stupid. He lied, he lied some more, and now you can't trust him. You tell him you are going to leave and he doesn't seem to care. I'm sorry, this was an affair that he tried to cover by painting it as 'swinging'. Men are stupid (being a man, I know). Good luck and I'm so sorry for your loss.

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Thanks for the replies you guys. I think that my grief over the loss of my dad made me doubt myself and buy into the whole 'there's nothing wrong since we are just friends'. And wow, what a creep to do this to me in the first place, but especially when I was dealing with my father's illness and passing.... And thanks again for the words of comfort.

 

No one should invalidate your feelings here, least of all yourself. However, we all do it from time to time, allow others to tell us how we should feel. Add my affirmation to the list. Go. Be Happy. Don't let him ruin another Christmas.

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This is a great point. I had missed the part where the OP stated that she was a workaholic. Both partners in the relationship need to work together to spend time with each other and also communicate with each other about any issues, problems, needs, wants, etc. So, yes, perhaps the OP had a part in the mess that occurred. However, and maybe this is a big assumption on my part since she doesn't mention whether she asked her husband to stop seeing and talking to the other woman, if she repeatedly asked for him to end contact with this other woman because the entire situation was compromising the relationship, then he wasn't willing to stop, listen, and consider how this was affecting his wife and their marriage. Point blank, his shoe was already over in the next green pasture. He was acting selfishly and wasn't willing or intending to stop. For all we know, he could have been giving her lip service that he had "stopped seeing" the other woman but he was still interacting with her daily and having coffee dates. This behavior shows that he's holding on to the other woman.

 

At the end of the day, both partners have to be willing to make a serious effort into making a relationship work after cheating/lying/deception/affair/infidelity. It doesn't work if one partner is on the dance floor waiting to dance but the one they are waiting for is at a table playing footsies with someone else. If he really wants to save his marriage, he has to make the first move by putting the marriage in first priority, which is where it should have been. If not, then walk away.

 

Added note: if the OP is still a workaholic, it would have been advisable to put more time and effort into the relationship and less time working as well.

 

Hi sunbuckers, when my husband first brought this whole thing up I was devastated and I continually asked him to stop contacting the other woman. He refused, insisting they were just friends. I am no longer a workaholic because (to add to all of my other stresses lol) I lost my job last March - so I have plenty of free time. I am (or was) willing to work on our marriage on the condition that he have zero contact with this woman but he refuses. Now I am learning more about the depth of their relationship. He claims that the only physical part occurred when the three of us played (which I put an end to a long time ago) but they talk/text obsessively and refer to each other as 'exes' now. And he refuses to stop talking to her and gets angry with me for being upset and hurt by what I view as his betrayal. I have since left because I realize that I married a real jacka$$.

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:nono: so sorry u have to go through what ur going through, sometimes u have to find out the real main is staying in touch with this other girl, what is the bottom line! if ur working a lot, if u don't mind me asking a very personal question??? I can try to help u figure out what the intent is, and please I'm trying to help by my own experiences, I really feel bad for u and don't like seeing couples breaking up over a some what simple fix. thanks for reading Cathy and Ruben stay tight!

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:nono: so sorry u have to go through what ur going through, sometimes u have to find out the real main is staying in touch with this other girl, what is the bottom line! if ur working a lot, if u don't mind me asking a very personal question??? I can try to help u figure out what the intent is, and please I'm trying to help by my own experiences, I really feel bad for u and don't like seeing couples breaking up over a some what simple fix. thanks for reading Cathy and Ruben stay tight!

I have had numerous conversations with my husband to find out what his intentions are in staying in though with this other girl, and none of them make sense. First he said she is a 'cool chick' and a 'good friend' who is easy to talk to (while he literally gives me the cold shoulder and acts like speaking to me is an act of charity). Now, the other girl has a boyfriend and SHE sneaks around to make secret phone calls to my husband so that she doesn't ruin things with her new relationship! And the kicker is that my husband told me that this made him angry because she knows how much 'grief' he had to take from me in order to talk to her (meaning me expressing the pain he was putting me through) and he's now upset that she is not willing to do the same for him. Oh and by the way, he thinks I have completely overreacted by leaving and has suggested that I get a hobby or something so that I stop obsessing over this. I have been with this guy for 13 years and he has never been this heartless or cruel and I can't figure this out, nor is it worth it at this point.

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And not that it should make that much of a difference, but I have never let myself go during the marriage, I'm 40 but look younger, I work out all the time I look better than I did in my 20's - this isn't a situation where my husband found someone sexier because his wife let herself go (which I think is a crappy thing for any man to do). Things were seemingly good before this happened. And the girl he can't stop talking to is not like a stunning woman, but I guess there's some connection there that I'm not seeing. Maybe just the that that she's not me?

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As for his motivations on the physical side I can't speculate directly, but from his idiocy in the situation, he is in the early stages of "in love" with this woman. Early stages are where you do really stupid things, the butterflies in the stomach bit.

 

Added, its very very rare for a man to be "just friends" with a woman and not want to stick his penis in her, especially considering he already did so.

 

Hes liking the excitement of someone new and concept of having a gf while married. Life can get repetitive and this really changed that for him. Not wanting to go back to the same old way of living I can understand, in a way thats what we swingers do, the difference is not fixating on one person to do so. He does need to drop this women, even if it hurts, and you will have to decide if hes worth it.

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I've said it before and I'm sure I will say it again: Men are stupid. I'm sorry to hear about your problems and wish you the best. We really wish that we could help but think you are doing the best thing for you.

 

Men: You need to remember EVERY DAY what a treasure you have in your woman and let her know how valuable she is.

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Men: You need to remember EVERY DAY what a treasure you have in your woman and let her know how valuable she is.

 

The same applies toward husbands, they should also feel valued and loved everyday.

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Sunbuckus, you are right. Something is valuable only as long as someone values it. Gold and diamonds are really just pretty rocks otherwise...Take care of what you value and make sure they know that they are loved every day.

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Okay, I would like to weigh in on this from the other side. Please bear with me, because this story makes me look like a jerk (which I was) but it also has a point.

 

A few years ago, I was with a girl who was bi. A friend of mine that I had just gotten to know after a few dinners randomly offered a threesome if I was interested. I ran it by my girlfriend and she was iffy on the whole thing. The two of them got to know each other a little better, and one night, a soft above the waist threesome happened.

 

Over the next couple of weeks, we got together several times, and things got heavier. It was all fun and games for about a month, but then my girlfriend started having serious reservations. I kind of brushed them off, and me and the other girl tried to reassure her. Now, I never cheated, or played with the other girl alone, though we did talk, text, and work out together quite a bit. The second girl eventually wanted to try a poly relationship, and I was okay with that.

 

One day, my girlfriend came to me with a list of about 25 reasons the threesome made her uncomfortable. I, being a logical male, walked her down the list one by one and explained why she was either wrong to feel that way, she misunderstood something, or a couple that I thought were valid, we could work on. I missed the whole flippin' point: if she came to me with that list, I shouldn't have had to even talk to her, I should have just called it off.

 

A few weeks later, my gf did finally call the whole thing off, and our stress levels skyrocketed. We became colder to each other. I kept talking to the other girl because she was my friend and we went to the same gym, but I never cheated, and likewise, I didn't see a problem with still associating. It was only a few weeks later my gf and I broke up, and this wasn't the only reason (two other major ones were at play, but they might not have been enough on their own)

 

Since then, I have had two other relationships that have involved other partners. My current gf and I have done the MFM threesome thing, and I would love her to try the MFF, but she is not ready and I learned (the hard way) to NEVER PUSH EVEN AN INCH. She knows I want to, and she is willing to try when she is comfortable, but I have learned not to hold my breath, because everything else about her and us is so good, I'm not willing to risk it for that.

 

My point is your (ex) husband might still be in that mindset of what I had. He might feel that you are taking something away from him and it makes him frustrated and angry, when he thinks he can just 'logic' you into his way of thinking. Sometimes guys do that. You said you were with him for years, so I ASSUME he hasn't been a complete ass the whole time.

 

Also, some people get so wrapped up in what I think of as the "new toy syndrome" that everything else feels less important. (Ever get a new car for example and that be all you think of for weeks?) But that feeling almost always fades with time.

 

I was wrong, flat out plain and simple. But it took realizing that I lost someone dear to me to try to get something that couldn't ever work out in the long run to learn that lesson.

 

Am I a bad guy? No. Was I an insensitive jerk? Absolutely.

 

I can't really give great advice on how to approach him about it, because I wasn't able to handle it that way when I was in the situation. I can just say that it changed my whole outlook on swinging. Swinging itself was never the problem, it was the way it was handled.

 

I guess all I can say, if you have any desire to try to work it out, is to try to figure out WHY he wants this so bad he is willing to toss a marriage over it. I'm not saying you are wrong to feel the way you do, but I don't think this situation can be resolved without you being able to understand why he feels the way he does.

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Okay, I would like to weigh in on this from the other side. Please bear with me, because this story makes me look like a jerk (which I was) but it also has a point.

 

A few years ago, I was with a girl who was bi. A friend of mine that I had just gotten to know after a few dinners randomly offered a threesome if I was interested. I ran it by my girlfriend and she was iffy on the whole thing. The two of them got to know each other a little better, and one night, a soft above the waist threesome happened.

 

Over the next couple of weeks, we got together several times, and things got heavier. It was all fun and games for about a month, but then my girlfriend started having serious reservations. I kind of brushed them off, and me and the other girl tried to reassure her. Now, I never cheated, or played with the other girl alone, though we did talk, text, and work out together quite a bit. The second girl eventually wanted to try a poly relationship, and I was okay with that.

 

One day, my girlfriend came to me with a list of about 25 reasons the threesome made her uncomfortable. I, being a logical male, walked her down the list one by one and explained why she was either wrong to feel that way, she misunderstood something, or a couple that I thought were valid, we could work on. I missed the whole flippin' point: if she came to me with that list, I shouldn't have had to even talk to her, I should have just called it off.

 

A few weeks later, my gf did finally call the whole thing off, and our stress levels skyrocketed. We became colder to each other. I kept talking to the other girl because she was my friend and we went to the same gym, but I never cheated, and likewise, I didn't see a problem with still associating. It was only a few weeks later my gf and I broke up, and this wasn't the only reason (two other major ones were at play, but they might not have been enough on their own)

 

Since then, I have had two other relationships that have involved other partners. My current gf and I have done the MFM threesome thing, and I would love her to try the MFF, but she is not ready and I learned (the hard way) to NEVER PUSH EVEN AN INCH. She knows I want to, and she is willing to try when she is comfortable, but I have learned not to hold my breath, because everything else about her and us is so good, I'm not willing to risk it for that.

 

My point is your (ex) husband might still be in that mindset of what I had. He might feel that you are taking something away from him and it makes him frustrated and angry, when he thinks he can just 'logic' you into his way of thinking. Sometimes guys do that. You said you were with him for years, so I ASSUME he hasn't been a complete ass the whole time.

 

Also, some people get so wrapped up in what I think of as the "new toy syndrome" that everything else feels less important. (Ever get a new car for example and that be all you think of for weeks?) But that feeling almost always fades with time.

 

I was wrong, flat out plain and simple. But it took realizing that I lost someone dear to me to try to get something that couldn't ever work out in the long run to learn that lesson.

 

Am I a bad guy? No. Was I an insensitive jerk? Absolutely.

 

I can't really give great advice on how to approach him about it, because I wasn't able to handle it that way when I was in the situation. I can just say that it changed my whole outlook on swinging. Swinging itself was never the problem, it was the way it was handled.

 

I guess all I can say, if you have any desire to try to work it out, is to try to figure out WHY he wants this so bad he is willing to toss a marriage over it. I'm not saying you are wrong to feel the way you do, but I don't think this situation can be resolved without you being able to understand why he feels the way he does.

 

Thank you for sharing your story. I think it is helpful to both the writer and reader, especially when you learn something from the experience. Unfortunately, your ex-wife had to leave you for you to learn the lesson...something the OP's (ex)husband might have to also go through.

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Kmcouple thanks for the insight - no he hasn't been an ass this whole time, I've been with him for a long time. I just can't believe he's willing to throw our marriage away over this girl. I've been willing to experiment with swinging (not poly tho, that's not my thing) and it's not cool for either of us to be hanging out and developing emotional relationships with members of the opposite sex. And if one of us is being hurt by it, then it should stop, end of story! I appreciate hearing the other side.

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I hope what I said helps. I really do.

 

I've been thinking about this post since I first read it and trying to think what I would have needed to hear in order to get me to come around.

 

For me, I wanted something special, something unique, something no one else had. I wanted to be in a situation where I had two different girls who wanted to be with me, and for that to be okay. Maybe he feels the same way.

 

Maybe remind him of what he has with you. Not the sex, or the play, or the fun, but the constant support of a dedicated spouse. Through good times and bad. Most partners wouldn't even CONSIDER swinging/poly/etc. Maybe mention to him (in a compassionate way) that he has someone willing to TRY to test the boundaries of conventional relationships.

 

I got caught up in the.....tunnel vision...of what I wanted. I lost the big picture. I have had 4 relationships since the one I was talking about. 2 involved others, 2 didn't. While I wasn't....bothered....by the ones that were not willing to expand to include others, it did make me appreicate the ones that did.

 

Yes, if it hurts someone, it should stop. Period. This is supposed to be about fun and connection between the couple. But maybe explaining that, CALMLY, not during a fight, will help.

 

Please let me know if I can help in any way. I would not want anyone to go through the pain I did (and my gf did) if I can help it

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... And if one of us is being hurt by it, then it should stop, end of story!

 

 

 

Yes, if it hurts someone, it should stop. Period. This is supposed to be about fun and connection between the couple.

 

Something a friend once said to me comes to mind. "It's only fun if it's fun for everyone."

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