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Famous04

Girlfriend messed up...did full swap

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Okay so last night we went out a swingers club that we go to quite often and ended up fooling around with a few other couples, everything is great right?

 

Well the one thing we have always specified is that we are only a soft swap couple, no full swap, at least not until we are both 100% sure we are ready to get to that step.

 

So I'm having some fun with a girl and look over and my girlfriend is fucking the hell out of some guy, obviously I was pissed.

 

She says its only cause she was drunk and didn't realize what was happening, which tells me she didn't have control of her situation.

 

Now I'm at that point of I don't know what to do, because I'm really hurt and disappointed in her, we recently bought a house together.

 

On top of that now when I look at her I either get disgusted or angry.

 

I realize that any advice I receive on a forum should be taken lightly, but it would be nice to see what people's opinions are.

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You had an agreement of boundaries. She crossed them. Drunk is no excuse, even if plausible, it's still not acceptable.

 

How about some more information on what she said when you discussed it? Was she sorry? apologetic?

 

Have you talked about where your boundaries are today and whether or not you both are willing to change those boundaries? Are you both at the point where full swap is ok? It doesn't matter that she was "drunk". She crossed the boundary that you both set. And no, that's absolutely not ok, but as a couple you will have to work through this. If she knows that you are "disgusted" or "angry", she may not be able to truly open up to you about this. If you are a couple in love, regardless of buying a home, than talk like the couple that you are. Yes, she crossed the line, and you have every absolute right to be pissed and hurt. Did you notice her stumbling around, so drunk that she couldn't think for herself?

 

You two need to have some serious discussions on this. I like to drink, but I am never so out of control that I cross a major boundary like that! And Mr NC would be pissed if he were in your shoes.

 

Time for a talk: No drinking, no name-calling, no anger, no judgements. Talk it out, both of you. Why did she do it? How did she feel afterward? What now?

 

And I would also recommend no visits to the club, or meeting up with anyone within the lifestyle, until you two work through and past this, and discuss boundaries again.

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I would like to know one thing? Are you (the man ) are you ready to go full swap?? If not then you need to talk to her and maybe back off of swinging for a little. get back on the same page with what YOUR both looking for in and out of the lifestyle. .. If your not ready to go full. she needs to know it, and your the one that has to tell her.

 

The boundaries thing need to be look at real hard here, and maybe make the (I was Drunk ) one of the new boundaries, no one needs to get drunk to have fun..

 

Really hurt and disappointed?? ( ncfuncouple98 ) said it (I would also recommend no visits to the club, or meeting up with anyone within the lifestyle, until you two work through and past this, and discuss boundaries again. )

 

best of luck with this .. I hope you can work it all out ..

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:ditto: to NCfuncouple98 and truckerbuddy.

 

I know you are disgusted and pissed off, but it might help to know whether you feel like her stepping beyond the boundaries is going to be an isolated incidence, i.e. whether she is likely to repeat it, or whether you think she really just made a HUGE error in judgment that is out of character for her.

 

Sometimes we all do things we regret. Part of being a successful couple is knowing what to forgive and what can't be forgiven. NCfuncouple98 asked a good question: how did she react when you got angry at her? Was she incredulous at herself? Or did she just blow it off?

 

And... does she get drunk often? That's never good for one's judgment. (Please forgive me for stating the obvious.) If so, that's definitely something to work on.

 

This may seem overly suspicious but... do you think it's possible that since you've now bought a house together, she thinks she can get away with a bit more because it would be harder to walk away? Perhaps she is relaxing a bit on putting your interests first? I don't know your girlfriend or what she's like, but I've definitely known people who will take advantage when they think they are likely to get away with it.

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Susan here -- It is sometimes said that alcohol reveals a personality. I don't know if I agree with that as an absolute, but I do know that I always know if I'm fucking some guy I just met ! It has a lot to do with allowing his cock to slide inside me. Somehow, it's just not easy to have that happen and not be very aware of it. :)

 

Anyway, you two really need to talk because she did exactly what she wanted to do.

 

Alternatively, she was in a very sexually charged environment and went one step too far. Well, if you're at the buffet, despite telling yourself to the contrary, the dessert tray is sometimes too difficult to ignore. When adding alcohol, perhaps impossible to ignore.

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While I agree with the above thoughts. I feel like it's part of our duty as a couple who swings to watch out for each other. It's not up to us each individually to have control over a situation. Yes, we should be in control of each situation and should be aware of what is going on, but we are responsible for each other as well. If my husband has had too much to drink to really make good decisions then I need to let him know to back off (and yes I should be paying attention to that) and he should do the same for me. That said, you played a part in this as she did.

 

You should have her back and be aware when she has had too much to drink and at that point not allow ANY swinging to occur.

 

That said, it happened, you were both there and you were both involved. You have to choose at this point whether or not you are going to let this ruin your relationship. Things happen, rules get broken, but hopefully you are committed enough and love each other enough to be able to work through it. If she is honest about what happened then you have to realize you played a part in it as well and forgive her and yourself and move on. You probably should take a break from swinging for a while while you wrap your heads around what happened and really discuss what happened. You need to talk to her about the full swap thing and whether or not deep down this is something she really wants (chances are that it is - as others have said, alcohol often reveals the truth), then you have to decide if it's something you want.

 

If and when swinging should continue for the two of you, it has to be at the pace of the slowest moving partner. If you aren't ready to full swap (and she is) then the slowest partner is you. There is nothing wrong with that, but she has to accept that if swinging is going to happen at all it has to happen at your pace, or not at all.

 

There is lots of talking that needs to be done between you two. It's hard to talk when you are angry and bitter, but you need to do it. Don't spend all that talking on blaming her though, accept that you played a part in it as well, and accept that it's already done. At this point it's about moving on and forward.

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Yes, your girlfriend broke a rule. And yes, that one's a biggie. Yes, you have reason to be upset/hurt. No, being drunk is not an excuse. However . . . you had to know she'd been drinking probably more than she should have, and yet you allowed playtime to happen anyway.

 

Ya'll STOP any and all lifestyle related activities, sit down and communicate. Notice I didn't say "talk". That's because you both need to listen to what the other person is saying, or you're both wasting your time. Try to remember that everyone makes mistakes and that sometimes being "right" isn't what's important.

 

Whether you decide to continue in the lifestyle is up to you. If you do, then you need to do so with the understanding that the only way it works is to go at the pace of the least comfortable person. At this point, it appears that person is you. There's no shame in that whatsoever, but it does need to be respected.

 

I hope ya'll are able to work through this and maintain a loving relationship.

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1. Yes she was apologetic and I'm fairly certain she feels bad about it, but no that does not make it right. If a drunk driver ran over a kid, I'm most certain they would feel bad about it, but they would still serve time.

 

2. We are not the same person, if she goes to the bar and buys a few extra drinks its impossible for me to know exactly how much she has had and unless she's going up/down stairs she's pretty good a keeping her balance when drunk. At the point we were at the club I trusted her to make right decisions, so no I did not watch her at all times because I do not like being watched at all times, I trust myself to make right decisions and I feel I should be able to trust my girlfriend, my friends, my family, etc... to also make good ethical decisions, If a person breaks that trust, shouldn't they have to deal with the pain that follows?

 

Up to this point I felt as if I was betrayed and I had been hurt, but now I think I have realized that it's not my loss, My life will still continue with or without her in it, If she decides she wants me in her life then she must rebuild that trust. It's not my responsibility to help her rebuild it, if she truly feels bad for what she did, then she will come up with a way, no matter what it takes.

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Up to this point I felt as if I was betrayed and I had been hurt, but now I think I have realized that it's not my loss, My life will still continue with or without her in it, If she decides she wants me in her life then she must rebuild that trust. It's not my responsibility to help her rebuild it, if she truly feels bad for what she did, then she will come up with a way, no matter what it takes.

 

WOW OK then but it sounds like to me .. you have made up your mind already.. so now i will ask? what are you going to do? are you going to try and work through this?? or hold it over her head for ever ??

 

Im sorry but thats what i read in your post... sorry

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It's not my responsibility to help her rebuild it, if she truly feels bad for what she did, then she will come up with a way, no matter what it takes.

 

And just what would it take? It sounds like you are ready to walk away from this relationship with no attempt at reconciliation. I'd hate to think that I could never make a mistake with the person I loved . . . how sad for you both.

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While I do agree with NCfuncouple98 And Edison Cater (Susan)

 

I would start by asking a few key questions first...

 

I take it from your post that you are fairly new to all of this, Correct? How did you come up with your Boundairies/Rules, was it consensus or ? Before you went did you ask her how nervous she was about the evening?

 

Its a situation where nersousness tends to over drinking.. and of course lowered inhibitions.. Alcohol Fueled and ready to ride.. has ruined quite a few evenings within the lifestyle especially for new folks.

 

I would suggest instead of being pissed, that you sit down and discuss everything all over again. It doesnt matter about the WHO did what, WHO brought what up.. the key question is getting comfortable within what you are gonna do, before doing it.

 

Hope this helps.

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Up to this point I felt as if I was betrayed and I had been hurt, but now I think I have realized that it's not my loss, My life will still continue with or without her in it, If she decides she wants me in her life then she must rebuild that trust.

 

OUCH!

 

It's not my responsibility to help her rebuild it, if she truly feels bad for what she did, then she will come up with a way, no matter what it takes.

 

It certainly sounds like you are going to hold this over her head until she has "come up with a way" to your satisfaction. And what would that take?

 

You are harboring a lot of anger right now, and the best thing the two of you can do is sit down and talk it out.

 

Julie had some very good comments as well. You entered swinging as a couple. Boundaries were crossed. Now talk through it as a couple.

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I'm with others here. It sounds like you have already made up your mind. She's wrong and you are right.

 

I posted this in another thread (oddly along the exact same lines - female half breaking a rule) and I'll post it again here. You have to decide what is more important to you - being right or being happy in your relationship?

 

That said, if you want this to be a long-lasting committed relationship - you also have to accept that as half of a couple you do have responsibilities to each other. Yes, she failed you and yes she broke a rule. But until you can accept that you play a part in this as well, you won't be able to move past it. You are stuck on being right, let it go and allow yourself to move past it and learn to communicate with her to get through this.

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Ok. We're going to be blunt here - If you want to keep your relationship, get rid of the ultimatum mindset. She is not the only one who can fix this, as it takes at least two to have a working relationship.

 

That being said, something is definitely wrong with this picture. Your rules obviously allow you to do anything with someone else other than actual intercourse.. ok.. got it. So grinding is ok? What happens if you're naked and grinding and something slips into just the right position? Does just one accidental stroke count as breaking the rules?

 

Look at yourselves and ask each other why you do this... What does it bring to the table that keeps you going back for more? Unless you're already unhappy, it should bring excitement and enjoyment watching your SO enjoy the PHYSICAL pleasure of being with another.

 

Right now it sounds to us like you're wanting your cake and trying to eat it too. She didn't go off and have an affair with someone, she went off and got carried away by a physical moment of pleasure. It's entirely possible that the shoes could be reversed on this one and you having crossed that line. Think about that. Consider if you had just a little bit more to drink and a hot lady was in your lap grinding and wiggled just right. That can happen just as easily. Would you be disgusted with yourself, keep it to yourself, or would you face the music willingly and admit it, especially if your SO didn't see?

 

You have entered into a world where physical acts happen between people, and it is entirely possible to get carried away. Walk a couple of miles in her shoes before you make an ultimatum about her making this up to you. And for that matter, it is YOUR responsiblity to help her make up for it - by establishing reasonable guidelines to do so, and to be open to her doing so.

 

We are all human (I haven't met an alien yet) and we ALL make mistakes. Allowing yourself to realize just that one point will take you a long way towards rebuilding your relationship and your trust. But trust is a 2 way street, just as respect is. You have to give it to get it.

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Right now it sounds to us like you're wanting your cake and trying to eat it too. She didn't go off and have an affair with someone, she went off and got carried away by a physical moment of pleasure. It's entirely possible that the shoes could be reversed on this one and you having crossed that line. Think about that. Consider if you had just a little bit more to drink and a hot lady was in your lap grinding and wiggled just right. That can happen just as easily. Would you be disgusted with yourself, keep it to yourself, or would you face the music willingly and admit it, especially if your SO didn't see?

 

Really? I just don't see that. In all the times I've been in sexual situations my cock has never "just slipped in" unless we had already been fucking. I've been tempted to slip it in when a girl has been that close to me, grinding or wiggling just right. But it's never just happened.

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Really? I just don't see that. In all the times I've been in sexual situations my cock has never "just slipped in" unless we had already been fucking. I've been tempted to slip it in when a girl has been that close to me, grinding or wiggling just right. But it's never just happened.

 

True.. Perhaps bad phraseology, but we try to give them the benefit of the doubt, especially in a situation like this. Of course he wouldn't do it on purpose, that would be violating his own rules regarding swinging.

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1. Yes she was apologetic and I'm fairly certain she feels bad about it, but no that does not make it right. If a drunk driver ran over a kid, I'm most certain they would feel bad about it, but they would still serve time.

 

She went too far in a sexually charged atmosphere, okay. That's like a drunk driver killing someone? I don't think so. Why does she have to "serve time?" And how? What does she have to do to prove to you that she "won't ever do it again"? Or can she?

 

Julie's right. If you love her, let go of it and move on, with or without swinging.

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Ed here-- Careful about having these absolutes that make her 'wrong' and you 'right'. The same absolutes that place the responsibility completely upon her to come up with a way to set things right. I strongly advocate something that you should consider: a simple act of forgiveness and understanding. It will carry you further than absolutes ever will.

 

Personally, I never understood the man who didn't mind if the woman was sucking a cock but felt that one in her pussy was crossing the proverbial 'line'.

 

As far as your absurd drunk driving analogy. Nobody died. Instead two people had a great time experiencing each other, while a voyeur looked on and got upset over semantics.

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Personally, I never understood the man who didn't mind if the woman was sucking a cock but felt that one in her pussy was crossing the proverbial 'line'.

 

Not that I really have a dog in this fight, I do have to say I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it this way.

 

And Famous, you and I are somewhat in the same boat here, and I do believe we both have a decision to make and it's this. Either forgive her or leave her. But holding this thing over her head will serve no purpose at all. Demanding she grovel and strive to regain your trust, hell I don't even know how she'd do that. All it will do is create resentment that will manifest itself in other ways. Then one thing will lead to another and it'll become an avalanche and there will be no fixing it once that happens.

 

I think it really comes to this. We have to decide rather to trust them again and then just see what happens. And if their not worth the risk, just cut em loose and move on, but what I won't do is belittle her or drag this thing out any longer than necessary for me to understand where we both stand. Once that's understood, make the call and live with it.

 

That said, I can very much relate to how you feel, I'd be pretty torqued myself.

 

Best of luck amigo

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We feel that you are blowing this out of proportion. We recommend that you back off and realize that when you started swinging, there is a fine line between soft and hard swinging that at the peak of pleasure is hard to keep from crossing. It it was your first time at a club, perhaps yes. But, you indicated that you have been there a number of times. If you are going to a swing club, the purpose that most all people go is to have sex with other folks. We feel that she was just doing what comes naturally.

 

When we first visited a swing club, we agreed to just soft swap, no penetration. However, when we were playing with another couple, I looked over and the guy was on his knees, hard dick in his hand, headed for Tina's pussy. She was laying back, her eyes glazed, not stopping him from having sex with her. I had him stop and told him that we did not want penetration. He was OK with that. Afterwards I asked Tina why she did not stop him. She said that she was just so overwhelmed with the situation she froze. She said she knew she should tell him to stop but could not. I believe her.

 

The next time we returned to the club, we still had the no penetration rule. But, while playing with the first couple for an hour, he wanted to have sex with her. She looked over at me and raised her eyebrows to ask if it was OK. A thousand thoughts went through my mind, but I love her and wanted her to have all the pleasure she could. So, a split second later I nodded my head, "Yes," and she pulled him into her. We have been swinging for four years now, and I will always fondly remember that occasion.

 

If you want to keep your marriage, you need to reassess why you got involved in swinging, and realize that the natural outcome is to have sex with others. We recommend that you talk a lot, apologize for making a big deal of it, and go really swing this time, with both of you enjoying watching each other have sex with others. Best wishes.

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Right now it sounds to us like you're wanting your cake and trying to eat it too. She didn't go off and have an affair with someone, she went off and got carried away by a physical moment of pleasure. It's entirely possible that the shoes could be reversed on this one and you having crossed that line. Think about that. Consider if you had just a little bit more to drink and a hot lady was in your lap grinding and wiggled just right. That can happen just as easily. Would you be disgusted with yourself, keep it to yourself, or would you face the music willingly and admit it, especially if your SO didn't see?

 

The problem with your response is you gave an scenario of what if I had made the same mistake, but as I had stated I trust in myself to not make that same mistake, having a hot lady sit in my lap and wiggle is not a problem to achieve and I believe I have great self control over a situation like this. However having a loving partner who respects me is rare, and as u said u must give respect and trust to receive it. Well I did give out my trust and respect, thats why I was not always watching her as some of you have said I should have been doing, I respected/trusted her to not mess up.

I honestly believe that if your truly in love with someone that emotional trust will always overpower any physical attraction you have with someone else, it works for me, or at least it did. So for me to be happy I need someone who can be on the same level as myself.

 

The idea to getting into the lifestyle was agreed that we could go out and have fun as long as the grand finale was always with each other. We had talked about this many times in full detail and the rules were very clear and agreed upon, this was something that we decided almost a year ago when we started doing this, and up to the other night we had had fun with our rules because everyone was winning. I'm sorry but I don't care how hot or attractive someone is, that is not worth breaking your rules and the trust your partner has for you, end of story.

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We feel that you are blowing this out of proportion. We recommend that you back off and realize that when you started swinging, there is a fine line between soft and hard swinging that at the peak of pleasure is hard to keep from crossing. It it was your first time at a club, perhaps yes. But, you indicated that you have been there a number of times. If you are going to a swing club, the purpose that most all people go is to have sex with other folks. We feel that she was just doing what comes naturally.

 

When we first visited a swing club, we agreed to just soft swap, no penetration. However, when we were playing with another couple, I looked over and the guy was on his knees, hard dick in his hand, headed for Tina's pussy. She was laying back, her eyes glazed, not stopping him from having sex with her. I had him stop and told him that we did not want penetration. He was OK with that. Afterwards I asked Tina why she did not stop him. She said that she was just so overwhelmed with the situation she froze. She said she knew she should tell him to stop but could not. I believe her.

 

The next time we returned to the club, we still had the no penetration rule. But, while playing with the first couple for an hour, he wanted to have sex with her. She looked over at me and raised her eyebrows to ask if it was OK. A thousand thoughts went through my mind, but I love her and wanted her to have all the pleasure she could. So, a split second later I nodded my head, "Yes," and she pulled him into her. We have been swinging for four years now, and I will always fondly remember that occasion.

 

If you want to keep your marriage, you need to reassess why you got involved in swinging, and realize that the natural outcome is to have sex with others. We recommend that you talk a lot, apologize for making a big deal of it, and go really swing this time, with both of you enjoying watching each other have sex with others. Best wishes.

 

 

I'm sorry but I disagree with you and believe you are wrong in this matter, the purpose of swinging for us, or at least I was lead to believe was the idea of getting the tease from others which would make our sex that much more passionate. Everyone who is in the lifestyle knows the "no means no rule", Everyone says that you start swinging as a couple, if anyone of the couple says no to anything, that is the way it should be.

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And on a final note, I have decided to agree with everyone on here in one aspect, making her try to win me back does no good for anyone.

 

So on friday she's moving to her moms.

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You turned teasing into testing and respect into control...

 

You messed up!

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Susan here-- Good choice Famous, then she can find herself a real man without your silly barriers and restrictions.

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Famous04 - one last parting gift. One day perhaps you will meet that someone who severely tests your self control, and maybe then will you even by chance get a feeling of what your girlfriend went through with this. We all have our kryptonite.

 

But then the world doesn't revolve around you, and those hasty controlling decisions are going to ruin any chance you have in the future for happiness. Barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen went out of style many years ago.

 

You singlemindedly have decided that a Swing event has become an affair, that you can no longer trust someone because they made a mistake. We both feel sorry for you, as you have decided that you have decided to cut your nose off to spite your face to fix a broken nose instead of pinching the break back into place and moving on.

 

Instead of stopping swinging and reestablishing your boundaries and reevaluating your relationship, even possibly trying to reconnect, you choose to issue ultimatums and throw everything away. You took the one piece of advice that we gave you - don't make an ultimatum like that, ignored everything else to the point of arguing that you are in such control when you had a lot willing to overlook that and try to get you two to talk things out.

 

I'm sorry but I disagree with you and believe you are wrong in this matter, the purpose of swinging for us, or at least I was lead to believe was the idea of getting the tease from others which would make our sex that much more passionate. Everyone who is in the lifestyle knows the "no means no rule", Everyone says that you start swinging as a couple, if anyone of the couple says no to anything, that is the way it should be.

 

You forgot one thing. Swinging does heighten the experience of being with the one you love. The tease you speak of is the same tease as going to a topless bar with your wife if she is into that. The heightening of the experience is the actual interaction with couples of similiar sexual interests and a willingness to open themselves and share their intimacies. To go home even more excited about being with each other.

 

Yet you're upset about your girlfriend getting carried away in the moment, and that she DID NOT have the same level of self-control that you have. What you did was forget about people being human.

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Dave_kat said:

Yet you're upset about your girlfriend getting carried away in the moment, and that she DID NOT have the same level of self-control that you have. What you did was forget about people being human.

 

The problem most of you people don't understand is that I have never been so miserable as I was later that night, and the following days, no one has ever made me feel that bad, and it is an extremely scary thought that someone has the ability to do that, and did it.

 

I am also human, and what this event made me realize is I need to do a little more growing, and I believe she needs to do just as much growing, if not more. I can't grow with a shadow hanging over me at all times.

 

Its as if I said at the beginning any advice received on a swingers forum has to be taken lightly, because only I can make decisions for myself in a situation like this, I did what I felt was best for both of us.

 

I felt I couldn't easily forgive her, so I'm attempting to move on.

 

I'd also like to note all the people who said I have control issues, I have yet to meet another couple who didn't have come kind of control over one another.

 

Be "he doesn't play, only I do with other girls"

 

"ohh tonight's all about me, he's just gonna watch"

 

both real things I heard this past weekend before our mishap.

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So it looks like you are now a full swap couple...either continue or quit, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Decide what you want. I don't understand the drama.

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Famous04 said:
The problem most of you people don't understand is that I have never been so miserable as I was later that night, and the following days, no one has ever made me feel that bad, and it is an extremely scary thought that someone has the ability to do that, and did it.

 

Yes, you are very very hurt and you have good reason to feel hurt.

 

Perhaps when the wave recedes a bit you could ask yourself whether, in the totality of your relationship, which is serious enough that you bought a house together, this incident is enough to wipe out what you have together?

 

At the very least, it has taught you about some of the things you don't like about her, and perhaps about some things you might not like about yourself.

 

She did a very very bad thing by not respecting the boundaries you had set previously. But is it really something you see breaking you up forever? Is she not still the same person you've been with up till now? What if it would never happen again? What do you think she would do, if she had it to do over again? Do you think this was really just a bad, bad mistake, or does it show a part of her character you simply can't live with?

 

About the "control" thing, I'd suggest you not use other peoples' stuff as a way to justify your own. If you think someone is being controlling, maybe they are. Or maybe it's just a personal boundary or comfort thing and the other couple is dealing with it the best way they know how. If someone else's boundaries/control issues don't work for you, then don't play with them. You may disagree with how they do things, but that doesn't mean it's okay to do something or not do it in your own relationship.

 

I wish you the best of luck.

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Famous04 said:
The problem most of you people don't understand is that I have never been so miserable as I was later that night, and the following days, no one has ever made me feel that bad, and it is an extremely scary thought that someone has the ability to do that, and did it.

 

This is how love works. It is only when we really love someone that they can really hurt us. It happens. It happens to every couple who really love each other at some point. Not necessarily in this way, but it does happen. We hurt each other. When that happens, when we break trust, the hurt party has to decide how much they really love this person, and do they love them enough to forgive them and take the chance at being hurt again - because that is what you do when you love someone - you take a chance.

 

I hope that when she leaves you might open your eyes and see this and maybe see that you do love her enough to take a chance. But, if you do not see that then it is good she left - good for both of you that she moved on. Good that you both now have a chance to find someone who really loves you and who you really love enough to allow to hurt you. Best of all, it's good that it happened early before you had any real commitments to each other.

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Famous04 said:
The problem most of you people don't understand is that I have never been so miserable as I was later that night, and the following days, no one has ever made me feel that bad, and it is an extremely scary thought that someone has the ability to do that, and did it.

I am also human, and what this event made me realize is I need to do a little more growing, and I believe she needs to do just as much growing, if not more. I can't grow with a shadow hanging over me at all times.

Its as if I said at the beginning any advice received on a swingers forum has to be taken lightly, because only I can make decisions for myself in a situation like this, I did what I felt was best for both of us.

I felt I couldn't easily forgive her, so I'm attempting to move on.

 

I'd also like to note all the people who said I have control issues, I have yet to meet another couple who didn't have come kind of control over one another.

Be "he doesn't play, only I do with other girls"

"ohh tonight's all about me, he's just gonna watch"

 

both real things I heard this past weekend before our mishap.

 

I know exactly how you feel. I had an almost identical situation along with the same excuses. I spent the last couple of months lower than a snake's belly.

 

The ugly feelings do pass. It takes a lot of talk, trying to understand and thinking about things. I can't even count the sleepless nights. And Julie is right in asking do you want to be right or be happy.

 

My best advice is give it 90 days and then see how you feel. Don't make hasty decisions based on a highly emotional scenario. It's not a lot of time out of your life to be absolutely sure.

 

Good luck. :)

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I've been watching this thread and couldn't keep it in anymore.

 

I can relate to how you feel...our first swing experience was just awful. We made some noob mistakes (ie not having more than one condom a piece), the post I made about it is still floating around on the board some where. I couldn't breathe, I hurt so bad I couldn't bear the thought of him even looking at me, let alone touching me...I cried for days on end. It was quite honestly one of the worst times for us.

 

As Julie said, only when you are really in deep with someone do they really have an ability to hurt you. Does it make someone feel better to realize that they've let someone in to that degree when they are hurting? Um, hell no it doesn't.

 

Hopefully cooler heads will eventually prevail. It does take time for the hurt to lessen and to be able to think clearly again. Honestly I have no doubt that if I had been the one to f up the first time out, he would have gone off the deep end instead of insisting that sometimes shiz just happens.

 

Good luck.

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Famous04 said:

I'd also like to note all the people who said I have control issues, I have yet to meet another couple who didn't have come kind of control over one another.

 

Be "he doesn't play, only I do with other girls"

"ohh tonight's all about me, he's just gonna watch"

 

both real things I heard this past weekend before our mishap.

 

And here is the logical fallacy on your part..

 

These aren't controlling behaviors, these are what the couple has decided to look for, and decided together as a couple. They are being up-front about what they are looking for, they are working together to bring what they both define as pleasure.

 

In other words, they are showing self-control by limiting their interaction with others to live within the boundaries they set between themselves.

 

You, on the other hand, have chosen to set boundaries and dive right in, without fully knowing what you were getting into.

 

Famous04 said:

Well the one thing we have always specified is that we are only a soft swap couple, no full swap, at least not until we are both 100% sure we are ready to get to that step.

 

So I'm having some fun with a girl and look over and my girlfriend is fucking the hell out of some guy, obviously I was pissed.

 

You both decided that you didn't want to go full swap, but yet you are both interacting with the other at arms distance or further away from each other. You never tell us whether or not you even expressed your own rules to the couple you were soft swapping with (granted this would be the first soft swap we've heard of where you go off and mess around with the other couple to begin with, fully naked and/or more than a little kissing/fondling).

 

But this happens, and while noone has said it was ok for her to do this, it went to a whole different level between you both

 

 

 

Famous04 said:

Up to this point I felt as if I was betrayed and I had been hurt, but now I think I have realized that it's not my loss, My life will still continue with or without her in it, If she decides she wants me in her life then she must rebuild that trust. It's not my responsibility to help her rebuild it, if she truly feels bad for what she did, then she will come up with a way, no matter what it takes.

 

This is a very controlling behavior that says everything must be on your terms or not at all. Granted you did back down and listened to people on here, and instead

 

Famous04 said:
And on a final note, I have decided to agree with everyone on here in one aspect, making her try to win me back does no good for anyone.

 

So on friday she's moving to her moms.

 

Where have you both done any talking other than to beat her up over a mistake? Where is your compassion? Where is the understanding and support that comes from two people in love trying to work things out and rebalance their relationship?

 

If she went out and bought a new car for you as a gift, but got taken for a couple of extra thousand at the dealership, it sounds to us like you would complain about the extra thousand and not be thankful for the thought and effort put into buying you such a gift.

 

Instead of trying to work things out, you have basically said we're done over the mistake of having too much fun and getting carried away, instead of talking it out, reaffirming your love for each other, and perhaps stepping away from things for a bit to say - "this caused us problems, let's not do it anymore until we can reaffirm our own desire to do so and to live within the boundaries we've set."

 

Basically it sounds to us like you are so pissed and hurt that you literally moved into a different room, acted like roommates who were pissed at each other, and didn't talk, and you ignored whether or not she was hurting from this herself. And then decided she was moving out. Who decided this really? You, her, or both of you?

 

Because here is what gets us with this whole thing. You were both playing with others in sight of each other, in an environment where people come to do so with others and to enjoy sex with others. You didn't stick to playing with each other, you went and played with others, which invited more than what you were looking for. And yet we also don't hear anything about the other guy knowing your rules about being "soft swap" and you being pissed at him, so the blame is getting put 100% on your girlfriend for not stopping him. Did the guy know, and did he do some convincing on his own that assisted this situation? Did he know the rules and went too far, or did he do so unknowingly and she allowed it to continue?

 

You set yourselves up into what would normally be a full swap situation, and expected everyone to play by the rules. And when that didn't happen, you decided what your response would be and enforced your own decision.

 

Was her moving out mutually decided, or was this your decision?

How much support have you given her for her emotional distress over her mistake?

Did you only talk to us, and not really talk and listen to her?

Was there any kind of discussion about where to go or what to do between both of you?

Did you make her life miserable afterwards by ignoring her or giving her ugly looks anytime you were together, preventing her from even being able to talk things out?

 

You could take the attitude that this was a one-time mistake, that you won't put yourselves back into this kind of situation again, but work on your relationship, and probably everyone here would applaud that. It would be right to know that you're working through your issues but removing the temptation until you reestablish your relationship and boundaries.

 

But now you've broken up over it. Just think if you were married, would you try to claim adultery as the grounds for divorce?

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Dave_kat said:
And here is the logical fallacy on your part..

 

These aren't controlling behaviors, these are what the couple has decided to look for, and decided together as a couple. They are being up-front about what they are looking for, they are working together to bring what they both define as pleasure.

 

In other words, they are showing self-control by limiting their interaction with others to live within the boundaries they set between themselves.

 

You, on the other hand, have chosen to set boundaries and dive right in, without fully knowing what you were getting into.

 

You both decided that you didn't want to go full swap, but yet you are both interacting with the other at arms distance or further away from each other. You never tell us whether or not you even expressed your own rules to the couple you were soft swapping with (granted this would be the first soft swap we've heard of where you go off and mess around with the other couple to begin with, fully naked and/or more than a little kissing/fondling).

 

But this happens, and while no one has said it was ok for her to do this, it went to a whole different level between you both

 

How is it you know the other couples decided this together?

 

How is it you know we just set boundaries and dove right in?

 

With all due respect your making all of you assumptions based off of just my writing in a forum? I had originally written this piece for comfort, maybe people who could relate, instead I felt I was attacked from some and judged from others, albeit a few people did help.

 

As I believe I had already stated this situation was something I would have to figure out for myself, because the only way for anyone reading these forums to have all the facts is to have been either myself, or my now ex.

 

I admit I let my anger of my situation get the best of me and I should not have let a forum get to me as it did, but with that being said, To anyone who posted in a positive, helping, comforting manner, I thank you very much.

 

But to all the people who judged, made bias decisions, or virtually stuck their finger in my face, Please the next time someone on these forums asks for help, Try and be helpful, even if you think they are wrong, try and remember you can not possibly have all the facts, so instead of judging maybe try offering helpful ways to deal with stress, or things you might do to calm down when your upset, otherwise maybe it would be best just to say nothing at all.

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But to all the people who judged, made bias decisions, or virtually stuck their finger in my face, Please the next time someone on these forums asks for help, Try and be helpful, even if you think they are wrong, try and remember you can not possibly have all the facts, so instead of judging maybe try offering helpful ways to deal with stress, or things you might do to calm down when your upset, otherwise maybe it would be best just to say nothing at all.

 

It's a public forum. Everyone was polite in their responses, given we don't have the entire story, and we certainly don't have your girlfriend's side of the story (or is it ex-girlfriend now?) If you post on a public forum, you accept the risk that someone might say something you don't want to hear. I recommend knocking off the finger-wagging you've got going on (which is a controlling behavior of sorts) towards the rather polite and helpful Board members and try turning the mirror towards yourself. You might just learn something.

 

Good luck, and good luck to your moving-out girlfriend. Sounds like she needs it as much as anyone.

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You mentioned something about her not being in control....stop! Check out yourself right now.:lol:

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Famous04 said:
How is it you know the other couples decided this together?

 

How is it you know we just set boundaries and dove right in?

 

With all due respect your making all of you assumptions based off of just my writing in a forum? I had originally written this piece for comfort, maybe people who could relate, instead I felt I was attacked from some and judged from others, albeit a few people did help.

 

You're absolutely right, we don't know the answers to those questions. What any of us can do when asked for advice is to give that advice based off of our own experience in the lifestyle, and for us that is 15 active years in the lifestyle together.

 

And our experience is this:

 

1) Very few new couples go to on-premise clubs, for the very reason that the situation can be overwhelming. Nervousness, fear, being unsure about what they like in the lifestyle. They tend to wait until they have a bit more experience with the lifestyle to do so.

 

2) Most couples will set boundaries with each other, and you can be sure the experienced couples have game-played (sat there and what-iffed) pretty much anything they can think of and how they will respond. If an experienced couple tells you something like "it's all about me tonight" or "I only play with other women", you are being told not only what their rules are, but that they are sticking to those rules.

 

We have to base any response we give to our experiences, especially without all of the facts. We take what we are given and try to imagine the possibilities that could lead to this situation, or what we have experienced ourselves.

 

Now we haven't seen any post from a person telling you that your feelings were not, we have all said you were right to be upset about it. What we did do was try to influence your thinking about 1) what might have gone wrong and 2) make recommendations to dealing with it.

 

Your responses back have been what we have shaken our fingers at. You took the sympathy, and only the advice about making an ultimatum, and pretty much argued with everyone about any other advise. We've (and not just us) have tried discussing your logic, and tried to get you to think about other things than your hurt feelings.

 

The funny thing is, there is another thread going on where basically the same thing has happened. The same basic advice was given by the same people, and those two are working together to resolve their issues and to move on together.

 

She broke rules. I felt betrayed. Am I Wrong?

 

Julie has even sent you there in her advice a while ago.

 

Look in the mirror. You complain about our advice when you asked for it, you argue our experiences, and you sit there and tell us how wrong we are. Yet we come back to try to educate you about things because to us, a relationship is an awesome thing, two people in love is an awesome thing, and we will go out of our ways to try to help others in need with freely given heartfelt advise. Not to mention, you are getting responses from people with quite a bit of experience.

 

What we have seen from your responses is what makes us make our assumptions about what is going on, and the direction our advice goes. But then we seem to be beating a dead horse here.

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You set yourselves up into what would normally be a full swap situation, and expected everyone to play by the rules. And when that didn't happen, you decided what your response would be and enforced your own decision.

 

Hummmm, this one comment got me to thinking about a few things here. And as a guy who's experienced a situation similar to your own, I've been very interested in what the veterans here on the board would have to say about your situation. And it seems to me that by and large, you've received some solid advice. But then again I do freely admit that when it comes to the lifestyle, if a little knowledge is dangerous, well hell, I'm not even mildly hazardous. But that said, one thing has occurred to me and it's this: Maybe you should back off and look at it from a novices point of view? Back up to where you both were when you first started discussing this. What were your fantasies? What turned you on about it? What were you looking to get out of it?

 

I just can't help but get the feeling that you're a bit like myself. A somewhat old fashioned guy who grew up with the belief that "good girls don't". When you met the right gal, she was put on a pedestal and kept pure. And sure, you may play with the wild ones, you surely didn't take em home to mama. Still yet, time passes, you mature, and you start thinking about your woman as a more sexual creature. You like the idea of seeing her as purely sexual, of her enjoying herself and enjoying sex but just for the sake of sex, no emotions involved. So maybe you explore starting down this road.

 

But here's the kicker. Maybe you don't research this thing first. Because hell, how complicated can it be? It seems pretty straight forward in your fantasies! You've fantasied about it, you've both talked about it, and it's played out in your mind a hundred times, so naturally you feel confident enough to map out a path forward. Now the boundaries are set and you really believe you've got all the bases covered. But in reality, you don't even know the questions to ask. But you soon learn the same thing we learned, that walking into this lifestyle cold is a bit like filing a flight plan for an asteroid. That any and everything can happen, and will.

 

And see, here's what we missed. First of all, unlike in our fantasies, in the real world, the other three people get a vote, and not only can they vote, they will and unless things are done correctly, they just might vote on the fly! Secondly, maybe like me you find out that your woman is one hell of a sexual creature. That while it was pretty hot to think about in a fantasy, in real life it was a bit of a kick to the gonads. In my fantasies, I thought I'd have to hold her hand and maybe even persuade her, talk her though this, but no, that wasn't the case at all. In reality, she left me setting on my thumb while she went forth and did exactly what we'd talked about.

 

So to me, it really comes to this: I realized it's a bit futile to get pissed off at the fox after willingly throwing her in the hen house. That is of course an option, but the other option is to maybe believe her when she says that she loves you, believe her when she says it's you she wants to be with. And maybe realize you've both learned something about each other and use it as a tool to grow together.

 

Of course another option is to jet her and move on to someone new. But what happens if you start wanting to revisit these old urges? Do you start down this old path with a new woman? Now wouldn't that be a mucked up deal?

 

Just something to think about.

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Guest Trellken

I lot of responses in this thread actually pissed me off. A number of people here are making OP out to be an asshole or controlling or otherwise "wrong" because he didn't want his girlfriend to have sex with someone else. I've seen many of these same people respond in other threads about how important it is to communicate and to create rules and to be able to trust each other.

 

The guy has every right to be angry, hurt and upset that his girlfriend broke what (from what he's said) was a very clear and often-discussed rule of their relationship. Whether or not it happened in a club, she cheated on him and had an affair. That's not ok.

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Make an assessment of the relationship. What does she offer to the relationship? You obviously were interested in her for certain qualities. Are those qualities still present? Are you giving her the opportunity to offer them? Is it possible to experience some degree of happiness with this woman that you would consider fulfilling? If so, give your self time to work on the anger. Also remember, you both have to look out for each other. If one is under the influence, the other should take charge of the situation according to what was agreed to prior. Thats my opinion. Hope it helps...

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Dave_kat said:
Ok. We're going to be blunt here - If you want to keep your relationship, get rid of the ultimatum mindset. She is not the only one who can fix this, as it takes at least two to have a working relationship.

 

That being said, something is definitely wrong with this picture. Your rules obviously allow you to do anything with someone else other than actual intercourse.. ok.. got it. So grinding is ok? What happens if you're naked and grinding and something slips into just the right position? Does just one accidental stroke count as breaking the rules?

 

Look at yourselves and ask each other why you do this... What does it bring to the table that keeps you going back for more? Unless you're already unhappy, it should bring excitement and enjoyment watching your SO enjoy the PHYSICAL pleasure of being with another.

 

Right now it sounds to us like you're wanting your cake and trying to eat it too. She didn't go off and have an affair with someone, she went off and got carried away by a physical moment of pleasure. It's entirely possible that the shoes could be reversed on this one and you having crossed that line. Think about that. Consider if you had just a little bit more to drink and a hot lady was in your lap grinding and wiggled just right. That can happen just as easily. Would you be disgusted with yourself, keep it to yourself, or would you face the music willingly and admit it, especially if your SO didn't see?

 

You have entered into a world where physical acts happen between people, and it is entirely possible to get carried away. Walk a couple of miles in her shoes before you make an ultimatum about her making this up to you. And for that matter, it is YOUR responsibility to help her make up for it - by establishing reasonable guidelines to do so, and to be open to her doing so.

 

We are all human (I haven't met an alien yet) and we ALL make mistakes. Allowing yourself to realize just that one point will take you a long way towards rebuilding your relationship and your trust. But trust is a 2 way street, just as respect is. You have to give it to get it.

 

FIVE STARS!!! DAV-KAT..well said...

 

Once a couple decides to go into swinging . all these situations have to be discussed BEFORE a couple even steps into a room with someone where this might happen..

 

My wife (who is sitting right here watching) have talked and discussed nearly ALL possible scenarios which might come up.. and we have agreed on ALL and how we would handle them...

 

Oh! Swinging is Physical and does not have too much to do with EMOTIONAL STABILITY... and if she does get a little dick .. and enjoyed!! That's ALL that would matter!!

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      After her girlfriend flew back home she cried, we fought again. She hated me and I didn’t know what to say to fix what I’d done so I basically just tried to love her and avoid the conversations.
       
      A year and a half later her friend came to visit again. I promised myself I’d never forget about my wife again. In doing so, when the three of us did it again I made it a point to do everything equal. Afterwards my wife pointed out that I licked her girlfriend and not her and she was pissed because I was a robot. She said that it was like a slap in the face to her. We argued about it again and every time I ever did anything wrong she would through all four experiences in my face.
       
      2 years passed and the same girlfriend got married. I decided to give my wife the foursome she always wanted because I felt I owed her for all my mistakes. We did it with her friend and her husband but beforehand I made a list of things my wife couldn’t do because of my greatest fear of seeing her with another man. She promised me that she would never let that happen. Her rules were: no kissing, no looking in the other mans eyes, no necking, no seducing, and whichever man came first the wife had to finish off their own man. Again we didn’t want to make my greatest fear come true. My rule was no kissing. We both agreed and went into it.
       
      We did it with them about 15 times with those rules. Each time before and afterwards she would throw the past in my face. With each time I would pay more and more attention to her and enjoy it less and less. She never really enjoyed the experiences either. We both however enjoyed parts of each experience and that’s what made us do it over and over again.
       
      I must point out that you all think her girlfriend was hot but she was not. She was not my taste. Some might say ugly. She had an ugly personality and was over my weight standards. To me it was just about sex.
       
      Eventually, I lifted the no kissing rule for my wife but all other remained the same. We kept the other rules because of my greatest fear and she again promised she would never let that happen. We did it another 5-6 times but my wife and the other guy never kissed. He was scared of me and my wife never wanted to go for the kiss. She always waited for him to initiate it and he never did out of fear even though I told him it was ok. Me and her girlfriend did everything but keep in mind I always paid attention to my wife so I never really enjoyed it. Again, over each time the past was thrown in my face before and after each experience.
       
      One time the four of us were in a hotel room and the women were sucking off the other’s husbands. My wife made him cum and then there was a moment where we all looked at each other. She wanted to finish sucking and her husbands said go ahead. I looked at my wife and she gave me an expressionless face and threw her hands up as if to say, fuck it, go ahead. Her girlfriend did so. It was the most unenjoyable blow job ever. I had to stiffen my legs and force myself to cum. Afterwards she threw the fact that I broke that rule in my face.
       
      We both decided to pursue swinging since it never worked with her girlfriend and her husband. We enjoyed parts of each experience but never the whole thing. I learned that I enjoyed the MFM portions of each experience, and I mean I really enjoyed those!!! And so did she!!! My wife is bi but it seemed her girlfriend just did it to do it. Her girlfriend never got into it (seducing me) like she did the first three times we did it with just her during all the times after she married. Neither my wife nor I were attracted to them in the least bit. They became boring to both of us.
       
      I talked my wife into getting an account on a swinger website and we searched for another couple. I told her that all her all rules were lifted if we were to do this. I felt guilty for being greedy for so many years of having her abide by rules which were unfair. I just asked her again to never allow my greatest fear to happen and again she promised it wouldn’t. We agreed on using condoms since we were getting ready to do it with couples we didn’t know. The reason we didn’t use condoms with her girlfriend and her husband was because all four of us were in monogamous marriages and myself and he were fixed (couldn’t make babies).
       
      We eventually met up with another couple and he was overweight and she was not. We ended up getting a hotel room and when he undressed it grossed both of us out. We started it anyway. To make a long story short, my wife took one for the team and I felt really bad for her. This experience only resulted in a soft-swap due to the other guy cumming to fast. It lasted probably about 15-20 minutes so I never got to see my wife without rules.
       
      Months later we hooked with another couple. Both were our taste. We agreed on no rules except that if one guy cums the appropriate wife had to finish the other man off. We also had 3 signals: one to pick things up, one to bring things down, and one to stop altogether.
       
      It started out with foreplay and I came in less than 5 minutes. I couldn’t get hard the rest of the foreplay time because I was seeing my wife without rules. Luckily the other woman was my taste and I just kept licking her. This went on for about 3 hours. My wife and I had a lot of eye contact. The last 15 minutes of the foreplay I signaled to her that I needed assistance with getting hard and she obliged by sucking my tool. We took a break and the other man gave me a pill (Viagra). About 20 minutes later we went into round two.
       
      Round two basically started with 2 minutes of foreplay then condoms went on. I could tell my wife felt unsure of letting go so I grabbed her head and looked into her eyes and let her go. She came right then and there! This happened about a minute after we threw condoms on. We continued to fuck opposite partners. I felt myself getting into it and snapped out of it and grabbed my wife’s ankle and pulled her across the bed to lick her while I was fucking the other chick. I did this because I didn’t want her to feel forgotten about like the very first MFF.
       
      After he started to fuck my wife I got into it with the other female and basically got caught up in the moment. I pretty much did every position known to man with her. Then I took the other woman from the bed to the ottoman at the foot-end of the bed. (When I did so I broke a rule which I forgot to mention earlier that was set from the time we decided to do a foursome with her girlfriend and husband years ago. This rule was that in all foursomes all people had to stay on the same bed.) About 2 minutes after moving the other woman to the ottoman I hit me that I fucked up and I looked up at my wife who really didn’t give me any reason to stop or change what I was doing. So I kept on doing her on the ottoman. I looked again which seemed to me to be about 5 minutes and saw my wife sitting on him. We made eye contact. It hurt me and turned me on at the same time and I instantly came. When I did the other woman turned and swallowed me. I pushed her off because I didn’t want my wife to see it and upset her. My wife kept with the rules. After I came she got off the other man and put his wife on him. My wife did finally let loose but was still a little reserved because she was unsure of whether or not she was truly being let go.
       
      After we left my wife thanked me for letting her go. She told me that I fucked up by moving the chick to the ottoman but never really got mad at me. She did however get mad because I didn’t let myself enjoy being swallowed. I was in total bliss for three days afterwards and then on the 4th day I had flashes of seeing my wife alone with another man and broke down at work; literally in tears. This went on for about 2 weeks.
       
      After that couple we went back to her girlfriend and her husband two more times. One of those times we decided to do a full-swap with them for two reasons: to loosen them up and to try a full-swap for the very first time. I blew my load first and looked up at him banging my wife. I didn’t like it so I tried to put my tool in her mouth. She gave me an ugly face and pushed me away. It ended within 30 seconds after that. We talked after that and I found out she was mad at me because I never looked at her and she told me that she pushed me away because she was mad about that as well as that I came to her because she believed I couldn’t see her with another man and that’s the only reason I came to her.
       
      I told her that she was right but also wrong because I normally always came to her during the previous acts because I didn’t want to make her feel I’d forgotten about her, which was true. I never wanted to hurt her like I did the first MFF. I did admit I came to her that time out of jealousy but all the previous times I did it because I didn’t want to hurt her and also truly enjoyed doing MFM with her. I also told her I didn’t look at her because we agreed to do a full-swap and that that wasn’t a rule and I really didn’t want to see her alone with another man anyways. We both agreed afterwards that a full-swap was not for us.
       
      She later expressed to me she didn’t want to just meet and fuck people. She preferred to get to know them first. So we started to get into the lifestyle by going to clubs, and meet and greets.
      A year later we finally met up with another couple. The second date we went home with them. My wife finally got her girl-girl experience where she licked the other female for about an hour. The other chick never returned the favor. Later that night we all went to bed but the other guy drink a little too much and couldn’t get up. It lasted for about 20 minutes before he walked out. I fucked the other chick but finished when he was done without cumming.
       
      After about 3 more dates with this couple the four of us went into the bedroom again. We refer to this as the “Fatal Friday”. This is how it went:
       
      We went into the bedroom and I was the last to get on the bed. Everyone was naked and in the bed before I got my clothes off. My wife was already between the other man’s legs and looked back at me because they made it seem they wanted a full-swap. When we made eye contact we both knew that’s what they wanted. I looked at her and shook my head as if to say hell no. I thought she understood especially because she had always thrown my mistakes of breaking rules in my face over the past 10 years. Anyhow, while I licked the other woman my wife sucked him for about 30 seconds, he flipped her over and licked her for about 30 seconds, threw a condom on, and put it inside of her. I saw my wife’s face of enjoyment and it hurt. I still thought it was going to turn out as a foursome. I then felt I was behind in the game so I threw a condom on and put it in the other chick. My wife was thrown into the doggie style position and her head was right beside me so I grabbed her hair, pulled it back and kissed her. Her eyes were closed and she really didn’t kiss back. I had to do it again to get her to kiss back. The second time I pulled it very hard and got the kiss I wanted. That turned me on but also off because I knew my wife was actually enjoying it this time. I felt this was not going to be a foursome. About 10 minutes into it pushed her head into the bed, she looked at me while I was fucking the other chick and said “fuck her”. She bit my arm and the bite kind fell off me as she fell off into total bliss. I then knew I was in for a bad experience. I didn’t stop it because I had made a decision to myself that I was going to let her go before we even went into this experience. I felt very mad about her not believing I could see her with another man so I just let it happen. I figured that if I egged her on she would do the same in return out of gratitude. That never happened. In fact she never came to me throughout the whole experience and never made eye contact with me from 10 minutes on. The experience lasted about two-and-half to three hours. I couldn’t stay hard because I watched 99% of her getting pleasure. Her pleasured face and sounds destroyed me. Her eyes were closed the whole time. I even watched her take the man and seduce him. Everything looked exactly the way I would imagine it looks if I were to be a fly on the wall looking at us doing it alone together our whole marriage. I just tired to remain hard. I did see an opportunity about an hour into it where I put my stuff in her mouth and she opened her eyes in disgust (like she didn’t want it) but she then took it. This lasted about 3 minutes. I was hard again and went back to the other chick. I immediately became limp again. The chick tried her best to keep me hard but each time I put a condom on it went limp within 30 seconds to 2 minutes. I once again saw a chance to be with my wife. I went to her and fucked her. She did not come to me. She came. This lasted about two minutes and then I went back to the other chick. I ran into the same problem of going limp. About 45 minutes I stood up ready to walk out and the other guy threw his hand up and said “Come on man, it’s only been 45 minutes…relax.” I tried to do just that. Later I found myself sitting on the edge of the bed; the other chick was on the other side of my wife who was with the other man. I guess I blacked out because what woke me was him pushing my wife to me and him telling his wife to help her out. They both started to suck me off and the guy started to fuck my wife again while she was doing this about a minute later. I got hard. The other chick put a condom on me and I tried yet again but went limp immediately. I was done. We all left the room.
       
      We went outside and I was devastated. I wanted to go back in there and everything go right. I told them I wanted to try again. I felt bad for the other chick and thought my wife would help out the second time around. While were sitting there my wife looked at him then at me, called me to her with her finger and sucked me till I got hard. I didn’t want them to know I was having a jealousy issue so I turned to the other female and said “Ok, he’s ready for you.” Before I knew it, my wife and the other man were past me and heading for the bed room and the other chick took me by the hand and led me in too. All three were in the bed while I was standing. He looked at me and told me to just lay down and relax. He knew I was bothered. At the same time he was saying that my wife was between his legs with his cock in her hand and looking at me with the biggest smile ever. I laid down. My wife looked at me until the other chick started to suck me then she began to please him. She never looked at me again. The chick sat on me and I went limp again. As she was sitting on me my wife was thrown on her back between my legs where she licked my balls for about a minute then there was no more interaction with her again. Not even eye contact. I went through another condom and tried again. Meanwhile my wife was thrown into about 5 more positions which I watched while trying to perform. She never opened her eyes to make eye contact again. I remember feeling zero arousal and finally called it quits. My Greatest Fear had come true!
       
      That night when we were on our way home, I asked her how she felt it went. She said “Ahhh, I really didn’t enjoy it.” I then lost it. I felt lied to because I watched the whole thing and saw the pleasure on her face, saw her take him, etc. We went home and had our normal post sex. She was completely dry. I was totally pissed off! We fought and I broke down. I cried daily for about 3½ weeks. She was there by my side the whole time, unlike me when I broke her heart with our first MFF. Every day we talked and each day it got better. Bottom line is I found out I have a real problem seeing my wife alone with another man. I like sharing her with another man or woman but to see her have pleasure with another man kills me! How do I deal with this??? All I want to do is make her happy like she has done for me for so many years. We both enjoy 99% of this lifestyle. That’s the one thing I can’t handle. I now wished I would have let her go into it with the same rules from the start. She knows how to deal with seeing me with another woman and I feel I will always be left behind from this point on. Karma’s a bitch. What comes around goes around. I know I will get a lot of nasty comments from you all but I don’t care. I’m ready for them but please remember that I am the one that came up with the idea to seek help for us because I just want to make her happy, make up for all my mistakes, and make it work for us. We are realists and know that we will someday do this again. If you write nasty things about me, please don’t forget to give us some positive feedback because WE want to make this work for us.
       
      Yes, I was pissed off because of three things:
       
      1. She broke her rule of not doing her dream of a foursome (our golden rule) that night. Instead she did a full-swap. She says she misinterpreted my facial expression right from the start. She thought I just wanted to fuck the other chick which was never approved of by her in the past. It was always a desire to do a foursome for her. I can forgive her for this because I know from experience that desire is what made her make that decision that night and I know desire is a very strong thing.
       
      2. She said that by me pulling her hair I was egging her on and it solidified that I wanted to do a full-swap in her mind. She even remembers thinking “What else does he want me to do?” I always pulled her hair and kissed her in the past foursomes.
       
      3. She also never made eye contact with me during the act except that one time. This really made me mad because, from start to finish I went through 6 condoms and was limp almost the entire time, and she never noticed. She says she looked at me 5-7 times during the whole thing but never saw me walking across the room to get condom after condom. She admits we never made eye contact. She also admits to closing her eyes so she could enjoy it.
       
      4. She says she doesn’t remember either time the guy told me to relax. He wasn’t whispering either. The first time I was standing up beside the bed getting ready to leave with a limp one and she was moaning with her eyes closed. What really upset me was the second time she was looking right at me with a smile on her face. The guy noticed I was having issues. Why didn’t my wife.
       
      5. Most of all I was really upset because she forgot about me that night. She never made in effort to come to me. I had to watch my Greatest fear evolve right before my eyes!
      If there’s one thing my wife got out of this is the fact that I’ve always loved her! She knew that but always thought I just loved her for cooking, cleaning, etc. After 3½ weeks of me breaking down, crying daily, and not sleeping due to dreams she finally knows and understands that it truly was my greatest fear all along. She thought I just wanted to fuck other woman and thought I would be alright with it.
       
      In the end, I know from experience I am to blame for that night because I fooled myself into believing she would never let my greatest fear happen. The reason I say this is because I know once a person gets in the moment it’s very hard to snap out of it. What may seem like 20-30 minutes may really be 1-2 hours. I should have mentally prepared myself for the worst. I also know that I shouldn’t have egg’ed it on in the first 10 minutes. I should have stopped it but I just wanted to prove to her I could see her with another man and thought I would be given some attention from her as gratitude.
       
      I truly forgive my wife for that Fatal Friday. We both know we enjoy 99% of the lifestyle and will someday get back into it. We do however want to be better prepared. The most important issue to resolve is my problem of seeing my wife alone with other men. It’s not the men doing it to her but the fact that she’s enjoying singularly from another man besides myself. I know that desire is very strong and I need to mentally prepare myself to be forgotten about. She says that she will never let that happen again. I believed it the first time and believe she will try her best not to repeat it again. At the same time I’ve tried to avoid doing the same to her for so many years and never really got to enjoy the whole experience ever since the first MFF. I don’t want her to have to always worry about me and have the same problem.
       
      How do I deal with this problem of mine????????????????????????????????
       
      Please help US, not me!
       
      Note: She took part in preparing this problem. She has proof read it from beginning to end. We don’t want to be criticized unless it’s constructive criticism. We’ve already criticized each other enough. We just want to learn from it from others, forget about it, and move forward with a completely fresh start for both of us.
       
      Thanks again in advance.
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